Ok the gun came in I have remove barrel from frame and snaped a few quick picks....I love it!

What does this all translate into?



thanks
urdubob

[ 02-19-2003, 02:23: Message edited by: urdubob ]

Sorry Urdubob, your pictures came out like mine do!

I have emailed them...thanks

I can see it...does anyone else..please respond!

[ 02-19-2003, 02:25: Message edited by: urdubob ]

I can see the picture and the marks - sorry but I do not know what they mean.

BigB

Urdubob,

I don't have my proof books at present but from memory.
BV - Provisional Proof,
BP - Blackpowder Proof,
NP - Nitro Proof.
The barrels markings indicate that they are a .400 Bore express (Probably 450/400) and are nitro proofed for a maximum of 60 grains cordite and a 400 grain projectile. The marks also indicate the barrels were proofed in Birmingham.

RJW

I see it now here, but I couldn't get it by E-mail either!

Starting top left on picture, the crown with the BV below it, I believe is the Bermingham Provisional proof mark. I don't have my book with me!

The bottom line with the NP under the crown, is NITRO PROOF, for 60 grs CORDITE with a 400 gr bullet. This is the standard proofing for a 450/400NE 3" with a 400 gr bullet. The one thing that confuses me is the HP ( or could it be "BP") under the crown, and what looks like "450" EX 400 Nitro Express can tell you exactly what these marks mean, right off the top of his head. I need books! Come on guys somebody with a book on English proof marks reply!

Mac the "HP " is actually a "BP"

The BV under crown means Birmingham inspectors view mark.
The BP and NP under crown are standard Birmingham nitro proof marks. 400 Nitro Express told me the rifle was made between 1904 and 1921. Post 1921 proof marks included the case length.

You might check just forward of the barrel flats to see if perhaps a date code is stamped onthe barrels.

Since there is only one set of proof marks the rifle is an original Nitro Proofed rifle.
60 grains of Crodite with a 400 grain bullet is what the rifle is regulated for.
Proofs are just like my double only mine is a 55 cord rifle.

400 Nitro Express should post more info later this evening.

Looks like a nice rifle.

[ 02-19-2003, 05:45: Message edited by: Rusty ]

/

They mean full, original nitro proof (not blackpowder, not nitro for black) for a .450/.400 Nitro Express under the 1904 rules.

Crown over "BP" is the Guardian (Birmingham) Definitive Proof mark and "BP" stands for Birmingham Proof. Absent an accompanying nitro proof mark (crown over "NP", present here) it also means blackpowder proof.

"BV" is the Guardian "view" mark denoting inspection, or "view", for damage after proof firing. This mark was eliminated as redundant under the 1954 rules.

"Cordite 60, 400 Max" is simply the load the weapon was proofed for. This is the standard charge and type of propellant for the heaviest bullet used in a normal load.

"400 EX" means .400 Express.

It is worth noting that these marks, being 1904 rule marks, would be exactly the same for either .450/.400 3" NE or .450/.400 3 1/4" NE. Such potential confusion is why the case length mark was added under the 1925 rules. Of course, many makers engraved the correct case length elsewhere on the rifle, usually on top of the barrels, but many did not.

The absense of the case length mark pegs the proof date between 1904 and 1925 - the period the 1904 rules were in effect. I don't see a date code mark either. This mark is a pair of crossed swords with a letter in the 12 o'clock position and a numeral at 6 o'clock, the letter denoting the fiscal year of proof (7/1 to 6/30). The Guardians added this mark July 1, 1921. Thus the date can be further narrowed to 1904 - 1921. This mark is usually on the flats with the rest of the marks, but is sometimes on the barrel round just forward of the flats - which would not show in this picture.

Urdu, the previous advice to have the piece checked out before shooting or buying is always sound. The referral to J. J. Perodeau is also excellent. Make sure it is "on face" and "in proof". If it is, determining the appropriate load for it is the same as for any other .450/.400 NE. The fact that it is a hammergun, as opposed to hammerless sidelock or boxlock, is immaterial. What counts is condition and proof.
--------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

[ 02-19-2003, 09:45: Message edited by: 400 Nitro Express ]