Hi
I have been considering a Win Mod 70 .375 H&H for my hunt in 2007. Hase any one had any experince with the Mod 70 Like mine.
I bought a new in the box mod 70 .25 wssm. for whiteail and other small game. On my first trip to the range I brought some win factory loads 100gr supreme. When I fired them the bolt was difficult to lift the handle but I continued to zero the scope and the shoot some groups. This gun shot worst than any gun I have ever fired. 3-4 inches at 100 yards was the best group. so i checked the scope cleaned the gun and tried again another day after I bought another couple boxes of amo with the same results.
I could not belive my results so I took the gun to my gunsmith and had him remount the scope and then too the gun to a local guy that makes realy good custome ammo and left it with him to work up a load.


after a few days He called me and said to come pick up my rifle that he could not make it shoot.
I called winchester and the service people treated me like I was a idoit and were no help.Just told me to send them the rifle.
I talked to my gunsmith he said that in his experince that they would send the gun back and say there was nothing wrong with it. I belive Him after my conservation.
I'm stuck with a gun that I can't feal good about selling so I guese I'll let Kevin weaver rebarrel and square my action. around $500.
Has anyone else had thes problemes with winchester.
More important do you want a DGR made by a sorry Co. like Winchester.
Baylor Jewell

Many will berate me but try a cz 550 .375 H&H or a Ruger .375 H&H........or a custom mauser.

I am leaning Winchester, but handled a 300 win mag in synthetic (brand new) the other day. Bolt was terrible. had a hard time opening and closing it.

I'd send that rifle back to Winchester, along with a letter, CC to my attorny, stateing, in no uncertain terms, it is to be fixed, or replaced, with one that works! Don't let those bean counters beat you like a drum!

quote:

I'd send that rifle back to Winchester, along with a letter, CC to my attorny, stateing, in no uncertain terms, it is to be fixed, or replaced, with one that works! Don't let those bean counters beat you like a drum!

You got that right!!
Dr B. let us know how this developes.

When I bought my Model 70 Safari Express, I was advised to be sure and clean the chamber to remove any sealers that may have been used to coat the rifle.

I did this paying close attention to the chamber and have had no problems with my Winchester.

Dr B,

The problem you are having seems to be rather prevelent in any and all of the Short mag series of Winchester rifles.

I briefly owned two .300WSM's what a mistake that was. Niether fed, both had thight rough chambers and bolt lift problems and the overall quality on either was between whale crap and mud. The whole short magnum craze is a joke to begin with, these rounds simply don't feed and funtion well through many of todays current actions.

I own several older Winchesters (As in early 1990's controled feed rifles) that are fine rifles. I have noticed a SEVERE drop in quality and quality control on USRAC Winchester rifles in the last 5 years.

The really infuriating thing about it is Winchester's almost complete lack of accountability and nonexisiting customer service.

When I bought my first two left hadn Model 70’s I was disappointed at the bolt faces, the stock finish and several other things. They were actually good rifles, I was just nit picking all the tiniest flaws in them.

Instead of threatening Winchester with mayhem and cc’s to lawyers, I wrote them a nice letter saying how, as a left hander, I had eagerly awaited being able to use “The Rifleman’s Rifleâ€, how Winchester was always a symbol of quality and other sweet things. Then I asked if they would please do something about the items detailed in the rest of the letter, then ended with a gracious thank you.

They sent back both rifles within a month, well polished and finished, one with a brand new stock. They had addressed each one of my issues.

I tried this with Remington once on a .270 M700 BDL that had some cosmetic flaws and they sent me a complete new rifle. An ATV cargo rack manufacturer sent me a new cargo rack. I’ve always had good results by being polite. Never tried the threats and bombastic sturn und drang route, does that make them pee in their boots and send a representative out on the next plane to deal with your problems in person?

Try honey before vinegar.

BTW, sorry about the rifle and sorry about the phone response. I’ve found the folks that answer the phone at Winchester are mostly phone answering automatons, but they do have some knowledgeable people if you can get past the front line operators.

As to quality, it’s pretty much hit or miss with most of the major manufacturers these days. Over the past few years I’ve had excellent firearms right out of the box from Winchester, Remington and Ruger and also some that definitely needed work. In each case a polite letter to the manufacturer got the problems solved. The factory workers probably couldn’t care less, but I’ve found the service people at Winchester, Remington, Ruger and S&W to all be quite responsive to polite letters to make their products as good as they should be.

I'd also send the gun back. I've had to send back two guns to Winchester. One, they couldn't fix. So they replaced it with another gun. The other was fixed, and fairly quickly.

Ditto what Jim said about being polite.

Steve

Lots of guys expect some sort of out-of-the-box miracle rifle that's 100% ready to go with no further work or investment, but that's seldom what factory rifles deliver. With Winchester, the days of the truly reliable, ready-to-hunt, out-of-box rifle ended at the beginning of 1964, and even many of the sacred cow pre-64 Model 70s needed work.

If you want a truly reliable factory Model 70, you need to send it to a good riflesmith or team of riflesmiths such as Hill Country Rifles or Mark Penrod and have them rebed, adjust, and fine-tune the entire mechanism for accuracy and reliable function, plus open sights that won't fly off within the first 10 rounds.

If you want the best possible Model 70, carefully select one based on the action alone, then remove the stock and barrel, sell the parts, then send the basic receiver to one of the above mentioned riflemsiths or D'Arcy Echols and have a custom job built from the ground up.

If it sounds like I think stock factory rifles won't cut it for Africa, you're right, I don't. Most require additional investment and tuning. After all, you'll have a lot at stake...........

AD

I have a 1996 Model 70 Super Express in .375 H&H. I love it. The first thing I did when I got it home was completely disassemble and clean it (cosmoline?), lube it, and reassemble. The only "incident" I've had was when I didn't cycle the bolt fully (all the way back), so that makes it my fault.
I agree with Jim in Idaho. Try nice first. There's always time to get nasty later (if you have to). Even then, the only thing that does is make them more resistant and you miserable.
Good luck. I hope Winchester takes care of your rifle.
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
........... plus open sights that won't fly off within the first 10 rounds.

AD

Mine stayed on for almost a hundred rounds.........then fell off!

DAve

My cure is to buy a good used pre-64..I have never had one that was bad, I suppose there are a few bad ones, but I have not seen one in 50 plus years...

As usual Ray gives good advice. The only thing I do after I purchase a Pre-64 Mod 70 that is in new or near new condition is to have the tang area relieved and glass bedded. I have had several split in the tang area after only a few rounds. Most of these excellent condition rifles haven't been shot much and have been sitting in some collectors safe. I suspect that the stocks have dried out and become somewhat brittle. Remember the newest Pre-64 has been sitting around over 40 years.

465H&H

I have no complaints at all about my M70 syn in 300 WM. Bolt works fine, shoots good groups.

Ray is right winchester has not made a decent rifle since 1963.

I’ve had the usual run of experience with factory M70’s, and I would agree that for a DGR you should send it off to a competent ‘smith for a once-over. I’d also say that about most of the other DGR candidates out there. I had experience with a CZ 550 .458 Lott that won’t feed, and Ruger .458 Lott's that have been recalled.

If you don’t want to deal with a gunsmith (and boy can I appreciate that!), then buy one off the rack and shoot the heck out of it. If it works 100% under your most imaginative and realistic practice conditions, it’ll most likely be just fine in the field. If not, then send it back to the factory with a polite letter detailing the problem and see what develops, or send it off to your ‘smith of choice for the run-through. You’ll most likely be quite satisfied with the results.

The real key is DON’T WAIT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE! ! ! You should have your DGR in hand and begin sorting it out at least a year ahead of your scheduled hunt. I know my hunting partner’s nightmare of waiting for the ‘smith to deliver the rifle and watching the “days remaining†drop first into double digits, then single digits, without a rifle in hand isn’t unique. I’m sure about half of the people on this list could tell you the same nail-biting stories.

DON’T WAIT! GET YOUR RIFLE EARLY AND PRACTICE OFTEN!

Several People have sugested that the barrel might shoot in after 200 or so rounds. I have no desire or do I think I should have to spend $300 - $400 on ammunition and hours of time shooting in a barrel. Why cant Win get it right.
I have owned dozens of Rem 700's, 600's, 742's and 760's, also Browing BAR's, spring field M1A', H&K's, and colt's, None have shot this poorly. Hell I have a SKS that shoots better than this Winchester Mod 70.
What think I'm going to do is have my smith go through it and possibly change the barrel. One thing is forsure I will never buy another Winchester
Does any one have a sugestion on which DGR I should buy.
Does any one know what Phil Shomaker shoots.in 458 win mag.
Dr B.

I too have had my share of "maladies" with the new Wins.

Take the "Old Codger's" (Ray's) advice and buy a good pre-64 .375 and you'll have all the gun you will need for your trip.

There's a lot more to the "Pre 64" mystique than some folks realize.

JW

Sure hate to spoil the bashing party, but...... My M70 Safari Express in 416 Rem Mag is my most accurate rifle. It shoots 3/4-" groups at 100 yds with all shots touching each other.

Was it perfect out of the box? No. It had a weak magazine spring which caused the first shell in the hole to pop out, chambering the the 2nd one. New spring solved the problem.

In October of 1999 in bought a Winchester SS Classic in 375 H&H from a young guy going to medical school who had received the gun as a college graduation present and needed the cash. It was new in the box, still had the hang tags and factory preservative. I took it home, cleaned it, shot it a bit and then toted it to my gunsmith. I had the trigger pull lightened a bit, a decent recoil pad installed and a set of Leupold QD bases and rings installed. This gun has fired over 700 rounds and never once failed to feed, fire or eject. The only bobble has been when my brother short stroked the action trying to put his 4th shot into an elephant and that didn't jam it. The rifle is more accurate than I am and even with the crappy factory stock it has never needed even a tick of scope adjustment in 5 trips to Africa and countless miles being hauled all over this country. I think I received my money's worth in the purchase and have no right to expect more from an over the counter gun. Also, two years ago I bought a new Classic blued M-70 in 30-06 and it has performed equally as well as the 375. If I could find a good deal on a Classic in 25.06 I would buy another one today and if I ever sell my double rifle I will replace it with a M-70 in 458 Lott. The new M-70s are good rifles and well worth the price.

Perry

I guess I must be one of the lucky ones. Like PWN, my three "Classic" (post-1992 CRFs) are all very accurate and dependable rifles. My 375 for example, is an absolute tackdriver (see below) My friend that just returned from Africa with me made a "circus" 300 yard plus shot on a kudu with his Model 70. Having said all of that, it is still a crap shoot, particularly after Winchester moved sown to SC. In my view light years away from the competition. jorge

When I got mine I left it in the box for some time and then took it to MG Arms in Houston and let them customize it to my specs. It shoots flat straight and true. No problems and I really like it now more than ever. I will be using it on Buffalo this next June/July.

I have a Montana rifle co long action in 375 H&H, It sits in a accurate inovations stock. 1/2 moa to 300 yrds with Handloads. Barreled Action was about 831.00 stock 450.00.I glassbed and adj trigger my self .Great shooter, realslick after a little polishing. One of the best barrels I own, the cleanest shooter I own.

JD

Between "use enough gun" and myself we have shot 48 plains game animals and now "use enough gun" has shot lion, buffalo and elephant with the M70 - all of the plains game in 300 WSM. We have absolutely no complaints, aside from sometimes needing to shim the bases to sight them in.

After re-reading your initial post, when you say you checked the scope does that mean more than just seeing if it was loose or what?

My brother had a problem with a scope that gave the same kind of behavior you are describing. He sent it back to Nikon and they replaced the scope since his original was unfixable.

I bought a M70 stainless in .300WSM. You couldn't close the bolt on factory ammo without lots of pressure and brass was scarred up with irregularities in the chamber. I put polishing compound on a piece of brass and cleaned up the chamber.

When I sighted in the gun, it, at first shot wonderfully (from my bags, etc), but on a hunting trip, when shooting the rifle to assure zero (from somewhat stiffer bags), it would shot two shots perfectly, then move zero. I borrowed a rifle for the hunt.

When I got home, I checked the bedding and it was all screwed up. I pillar bedded it and free floated the barrel and put two aluminum rods in the forend to stiffen the stock. As I suspected, the problem of the wandering zero was that any change in the pressure on the forend created random pressure on the barrel and only Zeus knew where the damn bullets would impact.

After the above work, the rifle is a half inch gun.

Just plain sloppiness on the part of Winchester and a p.o.s stock that is now fixed is my opine.

Now, I wouldn't trade it for about anything, particularly since I killed a 22" spread whitetail with it last year....

BTW, it was a non-catalog gun made for Davisons (I think) with a Mossy Oak stock and a 26" barrel instead of the usual 24". It gets substantially higher velocity than the loads listed in the reloading manuals with the extra two inches.

IMHO, I've not seen a factory rifle in the last few years that was DG ready... some might only need glass bedding to prevent cracks, others the full-meal-deal. I just resigned myself to the fact that I need to budget a minimum of $500 extra to get any gun ready to do serious business.