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Received Natchez Shooting suply catalogue today and noticed Nosler Solids for sale in .375,416, and 458. Cant find anything about them on their web site. Anyone tried them???? | ||
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Winchester has some of there 458 premium ammo listing 500gr solids.. I too have been unable to see on Noslers site any info.. Mike | |||
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Here is a link to their 2008 catalog with some info on these new solids. They look promising. 2008 Nosler Catalog This link takes you to a short discussion on the Nosler forum with a little more info and a picture. Nosler Solid discussion Soli Deo Gloria | |||
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Those Nosler solids do look very promising youre right.  Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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Is there really any solid out there that can compete with the penetration seen from www.gscustom.co.za ?  Jack OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.} | |||
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Hello I had alook at them in Reno, looked good but I am worried that there are no driving bands, i.e too relieve the pressure on mono solids, All the mono solids have gone through a evolution of design so that all the name brands now offer them with drivng bands ? Walter Enslin kwansafaris@mweb.co.za DRSS- 500NE Sabatti 450 Rigby 416 Rigby | |||
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I don't understand why all you guys from SA would look outside SA for bullets. Gerard's product is absolutely top notch and relatively inexpensive for you. (no exchange rates to deal with). Buying some production stuff from the USA doesn't really make much sense to me. | |||
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Yeah, I know, personally I do not like Monolithics but do use them , I love the Dzombo Solids made in Pretoria , But in the back of my mind there is still that conservative that likes the old fashioned solids Walter Enslin kwansafaris@mweb.co.za DRSS- 500NE Sabatti 450 Rigby 416 Rigby | |||
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Macifej, The bullets basically cost the same if they were made here or not. Then call me old fashioned but when hopefully soon I will be shooting ele I want a slow heavy bullet so I'm consdering really strong for woodleigh and yes I know I'm gonna get hammered for this rhino. The minimum bullet weight I want to use is 300gr of course but the woodleigh 350 gr sounds good and rhino has a 340 grainer out now as well. If GS, Gerhard could give me a 350 gr bullet to use I would definitely consider using it. Please note I am sure the 270gr in 375 will work on all other game it is just for elephant and brain shots as an exmaple. The other nasty thing is that with longer bullets I'm stuck with overall cartridge lenght of max 90.5mm in my magazine of my 375 to be on the safe side. Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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Frederik, unfortunately, the heavier monolithic solids does not always work too well, as they tend to tumble, I think the Woodleigh 350 would be OK though. I really like the looks of the Dzombo's myself Kwan, and as a aside, they are trying to develop a heavier than 500gr monolithic, for 2 guys from Kruger Park. They (guys from Kruger) asked me to also test them when they are finished, as they will also be shooting them in .450 Rigby's. the other thing is, that we might not share your view a 100% Macifej. GSC make great bullets, but I still prefer the heavier solids of Woodleigh. If I can have both, flat nose and heavy, I think that would be perfect. And them I really believe the Rhino soft to be a much superior product than the GSC HV, if and when I use expanding bullets. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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If you guys can agree on a caliber, weight, and magazine or COAL I would be happy to make up a small batch of something "special" for you!!  Elephants may flee in terror at the mere sight of the "Shiny Killer" from the US!!!  | |||
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Macifej, how about something like a 525gr (or heavier if possible) .458cal bullet that can be loaded to an OAL of 3.7 inches? (Case is 2.9 inches long.) Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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No problem. Which cartridge is this? I will pull the case drawing and see what I can come up with. | |||
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Macifej, Thanx but you gave yourself some trouble now as not all of us use the same caliber  Start and stick with the 458's Karl hunts big game most of the time and I'm looking to buy a 458 soon as well. If I may reply for Karl he uses a 450 Rigby Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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I have .475's , .505's , & .550's ready to go. The .458's could be ready in a week. I'll take a look at Wby, Lott, Win Mag, & Rigby. The length may be a problem on the shorter cases with short magazines. Any of you have the software to read CAD files or MS Word? | |||
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Hello Alf, Hoe gaan dit daar bo? Het my email gekry oor Moz Just like Karl I shoot the 450 Rigby, and yes a solid in 535 , 550 gr really does work wonders, Even Norma is comong out with a 550 gr now for the 450 Walter Enslin kwansafaris@mweb.co.za DRSS- 500NE Sabatti 450 Rigby 416 Rigby | |||
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I must confess to being confused by the obsession with bullet weight. When a bullet is required to do a certain task, it is important that, for that task, it must have: 1. The required momentum to cross sectional area relationship that will allow sufficient depth of penetration. 2. A kinetic energy level high enough to allow it to do the work required of it. 3. Dimensions that will assure linear penetration. Now consider: 1. A 540gr .510 FN can traverse a Cape Buffalo from behind the ribs on one side and out the shoulder on the other side or shoot clear through an Elephant's head from any angle. 2. A 380gr 416 can smash a shoulder on a Cape Buffalo and still exit on the opposite shoulder with enough energy to cause larger than caliber wounds in the heart. 3. The same 380gr 416 FN can penetrate 28" of live thorn tree and remain on course. (Building material tests are irrelevant but I mention it for those who are interested.) 4. A 416 FN produces a profusely bleeding exit hole on a raking shot on a 3+ Ton Rhino. 5. 450gr .458 FNs regularly exit Cape Buffalo on any angle shot you care to take. 6. A .510 FN was twice proven to shoot a grown Bison end to end (exit holes) 7. As described by Ross Seyfried, an FN is capable of penetrating the length of a 6 ton bull Ele. 8. A .375 265gr HV or .338 200gr HV (expanding monos) shoot clear through an Eland and the 375 HV will go almost the length of a Cape Buff. 9. A 200gr .338 HV is seldom recovered from any plains game. 10. A 40gr .224 HV punches through a black wildebeest from second rib to opposite side fourth rib at 345m. I have to ask: What does the weight matter? If a bullet is well designed and tested for a particular application and so recommended by the manufacturer and has been used sucessfully for more than a decade in that application, what more is required? Has anyone ever heard of or seen a GSC FN bullet fail to complete the task that the hunter started? Has anyone ever seen a GSC FN shatter, break up or turn in the target? If you can have all the above and, at the same time get it with a bullet that will not strip the rifling from your rifle, or make the lands appear on the outside of your double, that is a bonus. Until I start getting reports of such failures, I will continue to build bullets along the guidelines I have researched for myself over the last 4 decades and use at present. I firmly believe that if it ain't broke, I am not going to fix it. | |||
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Gerard, It may sound stupid but why does one person buy a 4 liter v8 to get to the other side of town while the other guy is happy with a 2 liter car. Both do the job but I can bet you the guy with the 4 liter feels more confident. Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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Frederik, If bullet weight is about a feel good solution rather than a reasoned, technical approach, I have no answers for you. Bear in mind that, no matter how good the guy in the V8 feels, it changes nothing about how much horsepower and torque he controls and what his fuel consumption will be. | |||
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So ALF, what you are saying is, Afrikaners (of which I see myself as part of, even though I had a German father and a English mother), are the only ones with enough barins to form an opinion for themselfs? I find that hard to believe. I think the anti-Musgrave brigade was in the minority, and all SA made bullets have their champions and their subtractors. Hell, there is even people liking PMP. It takes all kinds... What you have described happens all over the world IMO. Anyway, I think we are all way off topic. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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I made some price comparisons of bullet prices in SA the past two weeks. This coming season, GSC HV bullets are under the price of all the premium imported brands in SA. In some cases way under. GSC FN bullets are under the imported premium solid prices as well as under many locally made solids. GSC HP bullets are substantially under premium imported softs as well as under most locally made premium bullets. Order early we are going to have a tough time keeping up with demand. | |||
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............................................................................................Thanks Gerard .............I,m really on a exit hole kick now that I almost chocked on a bullet jacket from a pork shoulder we were haveing for dinner ...The jacket weighs 45 grains and had broke the shoulder of this little piggy .but stopped right there .....................I haven,t recovered a bullet in many years from game animals si I wasn,t expecting it ...........Nasty little thing .... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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................................Why ???......Since people from all over the world take an African Professional Hunters word as the absolute .,.,.,What were the circumstances where a cup and core bulletfmj hunting solid preformed better than a monolithic , flat nosed solid bullet ...........Or when a lead core , expanding bullet stopped or killed an animal faster than a GSC HV or Barnes X or TSX .. ..????...........All I,ve ever seen them do is blood shock more meat and loose more animals because often the perfect shot isn,t available and so deeper penetration is needed than the lead cored bullet provides ...... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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RSA has the best solids going. Just go to www.gscustom.co.za. It's nice to see Nosler went with a flat nose, but it would be better if they had chosen a true driving band design (in contrast to the Barnes grooved bullet, which is not a true driving band design). | |||
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There is only one truly banded bullet, North Fork, and they're gone. Not Barnes, not GS, not Nosler, not anything else. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Lets just wait and see when the US puts a ban on bullets to SA and the rand /dollar is out of preportion we will be forced to buy local and where will we go last year i was 3months without sierra bullets for my 243 . Hornady interbonds have doubled in price in 2 years it is now cheaper to use Rhino or GSC and its quality. my tests is almost finish on the 200gr 375 GSC and the results so far shows that i might not need a 300wm i Say try everything and keep the Good ones  "Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | |||
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Will
Why do you think this is not a drive band bullet?  | |||
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Just had a look at the Northfork website. They describe the bullets as grooved bullets not banded bullets. In this picture they look like grooves to me as well. My understanding of grooves is that the bullet is made at groove diameter of the barrel and then grooves are cut in the shaft. My understanding of drive bands is that the whole bullet is made to fit the barrel bore diameter and the drive bands are added at barrel groove diameter. Is that right?  | |||
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Because the shank of the bullet is larger in diameter than the rifling and that is why the bullet shank is gouged (scored) by the rifling in your pic. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Will Is the shank on this bullet scored?  How much of the shank of this bullet is scored?  On the GS Custom site they say
North Fork say their bullets are grooved. GS Custom say their bullets are drive band bullets. The pictures confirm this. You say otherwise. Why? | |||
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North Fork made the softs differently than the solids. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Are the North Fork solids drive band bullets? | |||
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I have been keenly interested in some of the questions posed in this thread because I am in the process of trying to put together a trip to SA in 2009 to shoot a cape buffalo and some plains game with my son. I have really been thinking about taking my 9.3X62 and am trying to figure out what bullet to use for the buffalo. I have always subscribed to the heavy bullet/high sectional density school of thought. However, I have just gotten and have been shooting some 250 grain Barnes TSX bullets and have been able to get them to 2525 fps with no signs of pressure at all. Barnes also makes a solid in that weight. The question is as Gerard stated, have the monometal bullets likes Barnes and GS custom become so good that all our ideas about weight and sectional density been thrown out the window? As soon as the weather warms up a bit and I can round up some phone books, I plan on doing some penetration tests so see which penetrates better, a 300 grain Swift at 2300 fps or a 250 TSX at 2525 fps. Which do you think will win? If the TSX bullets would work, it would make an excellent plains game bullet as well. Dave Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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OK Let the South Africans sing, 375 Fanatic, ? did you price the Hornady at VLT, I have worked and been in that shop since I was 12, and have shot and tested more bullets than what anyone could have dreamt off, I know Kobus from Rhino very well, and when I wanted a solid turned for the 50 cal balc powder on buffalo we did a couple of years ago, he not only produced but for free as well, Ken Stewart same story excellent guy and a true gentlemen in my opinion, Claw bullets from down south, also gave me 300 g 338 bullets in SN and I still use them everyday, but then some manufacturers could not keep up with demand and supply, and a lot of jigging up and down, So VLT started , with the support of course that Mauritz Coetzee provided too stock only Rhino ?? because they delivered , always and dependable, The imported Hornady's has , and I must admit that I have no idea what the prices are now always been cheaper that local made, but I will give Roald a call today, and confirm And they ar coming out with a " NEW DANGEROUS GAME BULLET " halleluja a solid cup once again Walter Enslin kwansafaris@mweb.co.za DRSS- 500NE Sabatti 450 Rigby 416 Rigby | |||
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Will,
I find that a strange statement as well. The principle of a drive band projectile is that it rides on the faces of the lands and has a drive band or series of drive bands to seal the gas driving the bullet. That is what our drive band bullets do. Ultimately the amount of material that has to be displaced by the riflng, determines the engraving pressure of the bullet. The less material that needs to be displaced and the easier the volume of material is to displace, the lower the engraving force will be. Ease of displacement is dependent on whether the material must be forced into the shank of the bullet or whether there is space created for the material to go to. The most successful drive band design is that which requires the lowest volume of material to be displaced and which makes the displacement as light as possible. Material that must be displaced towards the front of the shank contributes more to shot start pressure than the same volume of material displaced at the rear of the shank. Typical shot start pressures for a variety of bullet types have been determined as: Copper Mono Drive Bands ------ 1450 to 2900psi Bronze Mono Drive Bands ------ 3200psi Copper Jacket Lead Core ------ 3600psi Copper Mono, Grooved --------- 3700psi Copper Solid Shank, Grooved -- 3700psi Bronze Mono, Grooved --------- 4400psi Copper Solid Shank, Smooth --- 5100psi Jacketed Copper a frame type - 5400 to 6400psi Bronze Mono, Smooth ---------- 5800psi Dave, Can the wet paper idea. It is too easy to get a skewed result when the media varies from hour to hour, let alone from morning to afternoon. Use water in bags or in cheap containers, it is far more consistent and water is tougher on the bullet than game. Decide what you will need on game and, if you get that in water, the bullet will be OK. | |||
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Hmmmm, I don;t think I have seen any solid fail in years, but, of course, I suppose someone on this board has.. Todays bullet makers do a pretty darn good job, most of you weren't around when most all bullets failed from time to time. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Performance aside, I just have one question - are they really that expensive, or is the pricing I've seen just incorrect? It looked like something on the order of $100 for 25! _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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I have to disagree. The GS is a true driving band bullet. | |||
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