David,



I have been looking for a good quality scope for my 9.3x62mm and I have been checking out many of the ones you have mentioned.



I have found a few discrepancies in the information out there you may be interested in.



Firstly S&B.



Up to a few weeks ago their main German website: http://www.schmidt-bender.de/asp/en_default.asp was giving the eye relief on all their variable scopes in the "Hunting" range as 95mm/3.7" They made no mention of their Zenneth scopes.



Since then the website has been updated to show different eye relief figures and two ranges of variable in their Hunting scopes..the "Classic" and the "Zennith"



The Classic 1.5-6 x42mm is now showing as 80mm /3 1/8" (450grm weight))while the new Zennith 1.5-6 x42mm (580grm)

has eye relief of 90mm/3.5"



These are fixed eye relief and don't vary..With Leupold they do so you need to check the minimum and maximum to get an average for fair comparisson.



S&B also have what looks like an American based site http://www.schmidtbender.com which has the "old" eye relief info but some useful contacts for custom options.



Leupold.



If you look into the specification pages at Leupold you will see they are a bit "liberal" with how they brand the magnification ranges on their scopes.





For example if you go into the "specifications" of the VX-III 1.75-6x32mm you find it is actually a 1.9-5.6 x32...



Another example is that their European-30 2-7x33mm is actually a 2.5-6.5!



yet another, perhaps more relivent to you :



VX-II 1-4x20mm is really a 1.6-4.2...



I think this is "misleading" of Leupold to say the least and makes comparing specifications it with other makers a little more difficult. I have been told that top of the line Zeiss, S&B and Swarovski don't do this, but they might on their budget lines like the Zeiss Conquest or the Swaro A-Line, and possibly Kahles too...



Regards,



Pete

I realize that I am posting a request for scope info. under the African Hunting forum....I posted here due to the fact that it gets much more traffic than Optics does and the info I am looking for pertains directly to African hunting. That being said.......

I am currently trying to decide on the options I have for scoping a .416 Rigby rifle which I would like to have built. As it stands now I am looking at quite a wide selection of brands in an attempt to get the best across the board scope I can. Naturally, my concerns hindge on things like overal quality, most appropriate for the rifle, eye relief, versatility, durability, superior optics, warranty & service etc...

My scopes thus far have all been choosen for 30/06, 7mm mag & .300 mag class cartridges and used for off the shelf type rifles. The 2 brands I have currently are Burris and Leupold and I absolutely love my Leupold 3.5x10 40mm. Based on my current experince I would purchase other Leupold scopes without hesitation. However, since I don't have experience with many scope brands I want to hear feedback from folks who have used top end scopes on hard kicking rifles for African hunting.

The range of variable I would consider are in the 1x-4x or 1.5/1.75x-5/6x power with 24mm thru 40mm objective lense sizes. As far as tube size goes I can't imagine there is much difference between 1" amd 30mm other than adjustment...?

Some of the scopes on the table that I'd like feedback on are....

Kahles............1.1-4 24mm & 1.5-6 42mm, eye relief 3.54 each
Schmidt Bender....1.25-4 24mm & 1.5-6 42mm, eye relief 3.70 each
Swarovski.........1.25-4 & 1.5-6, eye relief 3.15 each....OUCH!!!
Zeiss.............1.1-4 24mm & 1.5-6 42mm, eye relief 3.74 & 3.54
Nightforce........1-4 24mm, eye relief 3.5 (these are a new line of hunting scopes for Nightforce)
Leupold...........1.5-5 20mm & 1.75-6 32mm, eye relief 4.4
US Optics.........1-4 30mm, eye relief 3.5...with an option to increase to 5.5 inches! (also a new line for US Optics)

At this stange of the game nothing is written in stone but,I am leaning tword the US Optics offering with Leupold and Nightforce close behind.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the aforementioned scopes as well as any other advice or comments you could offer for scoping a Big Bore Hunting rifle.

Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Dave

In a variable I would recommend getting two Leupold 1.5-5x20
scopes. Zero them both, and take both with you wherever you go.

In a fixed scope, consider a Leupold 2.5x.

JCN

Ditto and ditto

Geronimo

David,
I have a Leupold 1.75x6 on my .416 Rigby and have found it the pefect compromise for heavy bush and more open veldt conditions you can be confronted with on the same safari. I've used the 1.5x5 extensively as well but prefer the slightly bigger objective of the 1.75x6. I suggest a trip down to your favorite gunshop and a look through both of them. It's really a matter of personal preference and only you can decide which you prefer. Can't go wrong with either, IMO.

Dave,

I have the two scopes by Leupold a 1.75/6X 42MM and the 1.5/5X 20MM...I personally like the bigger view...Both scopes have long eye relief and Leupold has one with
1.5/5x 36mm lens...This is in my opinion the better of the 1.5's more light comes in....

regards,

Mike

Anyone have experience with US Optics or Nightforce NSX scopes...?

I have heard very good reports on both of these manufactures in terms of quality and durability.
Both brands look like really strong perfomers and each has receintly introduced a line of hunting
scopes based on their proven bench rest models.

Regards,
Dave

I've shot my share of crazy kicking rifles including a light weight .378 Wby. and a light weight .460 Wby. (I didn't say it was a good idea ). But the only really good whack I've taken to the forehead was from a Khales 1.5x6 on a heavy .416 Rigby.

On my personal guns I've had great luck with the 2.5x8 Leupold and have hunted dangerous game with 4 different guns carrying that scope configuration. From my reading I guess it's too much power for some, but I've never run into a situation where I regretted it.

Kyler

Leupold or S&B

Iwould vote for the 1-4 Nightforce or US Optics both being "bulletproof" and supposedly true 1X.
The 1X is critical in allowing very fast target acquisition with both eyes open. This would be a great advantage in this caliber. The circle dot type reticals would also help in this matter yet still allow a precise shot at longer distances on 4x. Illuminated would not hurt either.
The old brain screws up a bit if it is receiving 2 different size signals from each eye. This is what slows the target acquire up if the eye looking through the scope sees a larger image then the eye looking down the side of the scope. You do need both eyes open for close fast work - the same as if shotgunning.
APB
The 30mm tubes will allow a larger field of view which is a neccessary requirement as well.

Being an eyeglass wearer I love the long eye relief of the 1.75X6 Leupold VX III.

I have fired hundreds of rounds of 350 and 400 grain bullets in my M70 while making two trips to Africa without a change of zero.

Hi David

For this type of rifle I would suggest you take a look at the Nickel Magnum 1,5-6x30 ED; Gerhardt Optik - Nickel Magnum .
I�ve a scope from this manufacturer since 1994, and I find the optical quality, construction and performance, right along with the European top brands. I only find it a little heavy, but the new models are lighter.

Cheers.

N. Rodrigues

I have a Nightforce 1.5 x 6 with a 30MM tube. The scope is bulletproof, has superior optics, but is heavy. It and CZ mounts weigh over 3 lbs. It is my backup glass. Leupold 1.5 x 5 x 20 is first choice.

I also have a Leupold 1,5-5x20 ILL.
But the Gerhardt Nickel Magnum 1.5-6x30 sounds like a better scope when it comes to eye relief. I got scoped twice bu my .500 Jeffery
And having the option of going x6 is not bag if you want to get some plaines game like zebra with your big bore.
But the price


Cheers,

Andr�

David,
If you want a US Optics, or Nightforce, go and buy one.
However, these are new lines < !--color--> for these manufacturers. Use a new line on the golf course. On a hard kicking DGR, use stuff that has a track record of working. There are a bunch of guys here who have a lot of experience shooting 416 Rigby rifles and the like on DG. That is who you should listen to.
You didn't list the weights of the various scopes. On a 416 Rigby you want a light scope. The heavier the scope on a hard kicking rifle, the quicker it will fail. I don't know, but I suspect that the two scopes that you have the hots for will be a touch on the weighty side. That just makes for more inertia.
There is no such thing as a bullet proof internally adjustable variable power rifle scope. Every last one of them will fail. Put any variable rifle scope made on a 458 Lott, and it will fail before 500 rounds of full power ammunition have been run through it.
I've used Zeiss, Swarovski, Kahles, Burris, Leupold, US Optics (on a sniper rifle), IOR Valdada, Tasco, Redfield and Sightron scopes over the last 25 years. Also some junkers that came on used rifles I bought. I don't really give a rip what name is on the scope. I have come around to the following system. Most of the posters on this forum use some variation of it on their rifles.
For my no shit let's go hunting in NA rifles - a Leupold fixed 4 power.
For my varmint rigs - a Leupold fixed 6 power.
I do have several Leupold 2.5-8 scopes. They also work fine. I leave them at 3x - 4x.
On my 416's I use the above mentioned 1.5-5 Leupolds. For a 458 Lott class rifle I would use the fixed 2.5.
Why Leupold?
Are they the greatest? No.
They are reasonably durable, reasonably light, and they have generous eye relief.
When I break one, and I have, and I will again, I just pull a packing label out of my action packer full of scopes and send the bad one to Leupold. I get it back in three weeks, and put it back in the line up.
When your world's greatest scope breaks on the other side of the world, I'll rent you one of my extras if I'm in the same camp. $100.00/Day.
JCN

The Leupold Premier scopes have a fixed eye relief regardless of the power setting which is a unique feature compared to the rest of the Leupold variables and majority of competitors.

Another issue to consider is mounts - they must be of the best quality properly lapped to the scope and correctly tensioned! I had a 1.5-5 loosen ever so slightly on my .500J until the turret met the ring = bent scope!
Luckily happened at the range on load checking prior to trip
because I noticed it when elevation climbed with successive shots! Over 3 shots it climbed about 15" at 50 yds!

Leupold replaced it no charge even though I told them what happened! They have the best warranty/service bar none.

I just wish they made a low power variable beginning at a true 1x!

I have done a lot of close range shooting with Pro Points on game and there is a great deal of difference in target acquisition betweeen them at a 1x and a low power variable set at its lowest setting.
APB

JCN,

No problem and certainly no apology needed. I took no offense. I have read quite a few of your posts and I appreciate your opinion. I did think to myself that...you must have been burned pretty bad by some scopes you used in the past though

jstevens point regarding scope tube length is indeed a good one. I brought this issue up with one of the gunsmiths I have been talking to...he expressed the same concerns as you and jstevens did. He particularly mentioned the 1.75-6x Leupold as being problematic and that the 1.5-5x was a good option. I neglected to ask him if he was refereing to the standard 1.75-6x or the newer "E" extended length tube model. I will have to get a clarification on that. One of the ways I may be able to get around this or at least have a little leeway is that the rings I am considering using cant somewhat in tword the magazine. This reduces the overall length necessary for a scope and hopefully will offer me a little more margine of error in scope choice.

Another issue that was brought up was scope weight. Is there any rule of thumb here or do you just try to keep is as light as possible? Pretty much all the scopes I have looked at are under a pound. Is there a cut off point for weight one should try to stay below...???

APB made some good points. I like the idea of a scope that claims 1x and actually is 1x as it might have real advantages for snap shooting. I hadn't considered that fact at all and I am certainly glad you brought it up. Quite honestly I am so used to looking through 3.5-10x scopes I don't know what it would be like to shoot with both eyes open through a 1x.

Pete_E I had noticed the discrepancies on the variuos websites. I have not seen the Schmidt & Bender German site but, I have seen Leupolds liberties with magnification. I had believed that a 1.75-6x was pretty much a 1.75-6x but, I guess one can never discount the folks in marketing...!!! I don't think it's to big a deal but, as you said it's worth taking into consideration.

Good responses so far...Thanks and keep them coming.

Regards,
Dave

Hello David
I recommend Leupold 1.75X6 for the following reasons:
Longest eye relief, which is most important. The 32mm obj gathers more light than the two Leupold 20 mm's. Your 416 is about as versatile as they come so you might need it for early and late. These are light in weight so not too hard to hold in the mounts. I'm a real fan of Ziess but they just don't have the eye relief you need on the heavy's. The current Leupold 1.75X6 models have the extended tube and are no problem to mount on most guns. You rarely see the original short tube model. That is what I have on my 416 Rigby and it took custom bases to make it fit. You also want top of the line detachable mounts and a spare scope as they all break occasionally. I like both Warne and Talley's.

Regardless of final scope choice, you want to keep it in place in the rings. To do that I first always lap the rings for at least 80% contact, unless I am using the Burris or Sako Optilock rings with the plastic inserts. After lapping I have the rings refinished, unless they are stainless. I then smear a film of a product called Scotchkote Electrical Coating by 3M (part number 054007-14853) on the scope tube where it will be inside the rings. It is easier if you get the scope in good position first, then mark an index point on scope and rings with a sharpie magic marker. That has eliminated scope slippage for me. I read about the technique in a Ross Seyfried article several years back.

The human brain portion of the visual system can handle shooting with both eyes open up to a scope magnification of just over 2x. At 3x for sure, the disparity of the two inputs overloads the circuits. Pretty much all of the scopes before the jury will be ok on their lowest settings. One caveat; if you are cross eye dominant (as I am) it is harder to do.

I believe, but do not know for a fact, that one reason that the 458 Lott will eat scopes up much more than a Rigby is that it has a faster recoil velocity. Many scopes, even high end scopes have the lenses held in place mainly with glue. Scopes that were designed for 50 BMG rifles such as the Leupold 10x and 16x Mark 4's have thin rings of metal machined into the tubes to act as a more secure retention system for the lense groups.

Another weak point of most scopes is the internal erector assemblies for adjusting POI. Whenever I am looking at used scope that I'm considering buying I always shake it next to my ear. Twice I have heard and felt the erector assembly rattling around inside. A scope with fixed internals and an adjustable mounting system would be nigh on indestructable.

I like the glass in the European scopes better than the Japanes glass. Purely personal prefference.

Swarovski also has incredible customer service. Their 1 inch scopes are a pretty good value in my eyes. Ditto for Kahles. Avoid IOR scopes. They have great glass, but exceedingly lousy turrets. Hopefully their customer service has improved.

JCN

Well the theory might be that the human brain can handle differential optical input to at least 2x but if you want the fastest target acquisition then equal 1x is definitely the way to go.
I shoot about 350 pigs a year at ranges from 2 - 80 yds mostly running. The best sight for this bar none is a 1x dot style. Last year I trialled the 1.25-4.5 Swaro with illuminated reticle and it was without a doubt slower.
I would have shot about 50 pigs on this trial.
My major focus with a scope on a DGR is to have it work best at the low end magnification and the higher magnification is a bonus allowing vision into shadows and longer shots.
The mounts also need to allow quick release facility in case you have a follow up in the really thick stuff and want the express sights or in case the scope "plays up" reliability wise.

I have Leupold's Vari-X III on my .458 Win. Mag. and on my .416 Remington.

If I owned a .416 Rigby, it would also wear a 1.5-5X Leupold, only the current VX III version.

Scope for big bores need to offer plenty of non-critical eye-relief; a flat, sharp, WIDE field of view; rugged construction inside and out, and compact dimensions. The VX III offers all of these features in one package.......

AD

APB,
If I was shooting pigs at 2 to 80 yards, I would personally opt for iron sights, either a ghost ring peep or a set of shallow Vs...however Leupold does make a 1 x 4 varible and I use them on some of my dangerous game rifles, and the are the best scope for the money I have ever seen..they cost about $200. in the states and they are a bit trimmer and smaller than the 1.5x5..I like them every bit as well as my 1.5x5s.........

The longest eye relief for a variable scope that Leupold makes is on their VX-II 2x7, isn't that strange?

David C- mine is the E version as well, I neglected to mention this.

Strong positive reports on Leupold optics...I expected as much as I really love the Var-III 3.5-10x 40mm scopes I have. Leupolds great warranty service only adds to the fact...I am sure I wouldn't go wrong with one of their scopes.

APB Point taken regarding lapping the rings and appropriate tension. Though I have mounted about all my own scopes thus far I will certainly be having this rifle put together by a skilled smith who can properly address these sort of issues. My backup plan, such as it is, is to have a pair of like scopes mounted and sighted in both w/ QD rings to help ensure that the hunting can go on without uninteruption.

BiggestGun I like the 1.75-6x for it's versatlilty as well. It's a tough choice....the 1.5-5x looks really good to me to. As Allen said its a very compact(!) package with a wide FOV, great eye relief and has less mounting issues on Magnum sized action. At this stage of the game I am leaning tword the 1.5-5x.

Funny you should mention the.416s versatility. That was the biggest factor in my decission to use this caliber for my DGR. I think it will be quite good for Buff yet also has fair trajectory for 250yrd shots on plains game if need be. At least thats what I think sitting here in N.H. 9000 miles from East Africa!

JCN Great tip regarding the ScotchKote. Sounds like it would a good item to take on a hunt in case a scope starts to shift in the rings. A friend of mine had this sort of problem last year....Luckily we caught it just before we left for a Caribou hunt and were able to replace the rings. His scope happened to be moving ever so slightly and we just couldn't get it to stay put...if were diagnosed while on the hunt rather than prior to...an adhesive type coating might have allowed him to limp through the rest of his hunt.

Fjold I never read anything you say.....I just keep looking at Ms. Blue Top!

I am really looking forward to the SCI convention next year...as I hope to get the chance to talk to alot of experienced hunters & rifle builders and handle first hand a wide cross section of scopes and make my final decision.

Thanks again gentlemen!

Regards,
Dave

David,
Sorry dude. I spent most of last night stripping, mopping, sealing, waxing and buffing the floors in my clinic. I obviously got too many fumes up the old snot locker. That was quite a little rant there. I apologize.
One of the posters brought up a very good point. There is no room on a Rigby for moving a scope with an objective bell for and aft, so make sure the eye relief is good as is with one of those. A 20mm objective lense will gather all the light you need on a DGR. I don't like a lot of magnification on my scopes, others do.
The US Optics and Night Force scopes will probably be well made, but I would still wait a year or three before getting one. All manufacturers like to use consumers as their beta testers of new product lines .
Take care,
JCN

David,

I have the Kahles 1.1-4 scope on my Ruger .416 Rigby and it has over 450 rounds through it. I went with it for the 1.1 magnification feature. 4A reticle.

Would I buy the same scope again? Yes. Is it the best choice? Possibly not if you can't control the recoil very well.

However, I do find a lot of merit in Charlie's idea of the two scopes set-up alike for the same gun. I didn't take a spare scope sighted for this rifle last time, but 'Murphy' must have been asleep. I will have an extra next time.

Good luck with your choices, but I would recommend the two Leupolds.

Cheers,

Sam