This calibre has been out for a while now. Anyone have one & shot it? What's the recoil like. Is it significantly more than the .375 H&H with the factory loads?

What are the pros & cons?

Have a spare barrel for a Win M70 originally chambered for .375 H&H. Was thinking of rechambering for .375 RUM for a bit of fun. Can't see any real reason why I would need the additional velocity though except that I already own 2 .375 H&H's .

Will the .375 RUM reamer clean out the H&H chamber?

Your thoughts please.

JohnT

John,

Saeeds 375/404 Improved is the same thing, although he has that loaded back a bit.

Tobler has 300 Ultra reamer with removable pilot and so does the bloke that runs Pro Cal. I think his name is Peter Van Meur.

Rechambering a 375 barrel would be easy enough.

Mike

JohnT,
You think like me. I turned a 375 H&H M-70 Classic Super Express into a 470 Capstick and had a nice new barrel left over for the gunsmith to screw into a CZ 550 action after lopping off the threads and rethreading. A 23" barrel was the result. A custom walnut stock for the "CZ-70" hybrid is getting its checkering and finish now.

The CZ action was that for a 375 H&H, with American Hunting Rifles serial number 50,001. Parts is parts.

The CZ action feeds the RUM well, and has plenty of room. No need for the windowed magazine box that the M-70 and M-700 require for the RUM cartridges.

If you want to stick with the original 24" barrel on a Win. M-70 action, the 375 RUM will clean up the the 375 H&H chamber, without setting back the barrel a thread.

I reported on the Big Bores forum a while back on the factory Remington 700 LSS in 375 RUM that I have, with factory ammo results.

With my CZ-70 and 700 LSS pair in 375 RUM, I will have the poor man's equivalent of the Saeed Safari Battery. DGR and plains game rifle (PGR?) in the same caliber/cartridge.


I do not think the 375 RUM recoil is noticeably different from the 375 H&H.

RAB,

When you say the CZ 550 in 375 H&H feeds the 375 RUMs well, do you mean faultless etc. or so so.

Mike

Mike,
I am still waiting for the finished gun. My smith moved on to greener pastures in a custom rifle company (part owner he is) and is taking a while to get set up and back to knocking out his private customer work like mine. He said he would still do work for special, non-problematic customers like me.

I can thus far say only that the magazine box and bolt face didn't seem to need much if any work to feed 375 RUM through the action without the barrel. I am sure Kevin will have it slicker than greased owl crap by the time he is done.

Mike 375 indeed the boys at Remington must have been eyeing Saeed's exploits with the 375/404 and then decided to launch the 375 RUM. But I have noticed that Saeed has loaded it down to get better penetration. In which case we are back to the H&H ballistics. So the obvious question is why the larger boiler room? Maybe to drive the 350gn bullets at 2700fps but then I notice that Woodleighs 350 grainers are rated to 2,500 for the Protected Points.

Do we need to go to .423 dia to get any advantages?

RAB,
Interesting you mentioned CZ550. They are quite available in Aust & at a pretty decent price. I've bought a new safari express to rip off the action & bottom metal for a custom. So I've got a new wood stock & barrel at my disposal. A .375 RUM was the obvious choice. But honestly in a practical sense I don't know what it can do that a H&H can't in a practical sense.

What does your 700 LSS in .375 RUM weigh? Thanks for your feedback on the recoil.

Thanks,
JohnT

John,

I thinks Saeeds most recent loads have been 2650 plus with 300 grain Barnes X. Without Reloader 15, I would say you would be pushed to reach 2500 with that long bullet in the 375 H&H.

I guess you could say that the 375 RUM and H&H are bit like the 416 Rigby and 416 Remington in that the 375 RUM would do top 375 H&H ballistics with just about any old powder and load.

If you look at the powders we have readily available, 2208 is really to fast for the H&H and 2209 is too slow, especially if long bullets are being used and you don't want super compressed loads and Reloader 15 is not exactly the most available powder out here.

In the 375 RUM, if you settled on say 2600 with 300s, 2800 with 270s and 3000 with 235s, then it would offer much greater loading flexibility than the H&H.

I think talking about the 375 RUM of the African forum is similar to talking about lever actions

Mike

[ 06-21-2002, 04:43: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

JohnT,
The 375 RUM 700 LSS has a skinny barrel 26" long and weighs only about 7.25 pounds of of the box, IIRC.

I removed the laminated stock, installed the plastic Remington after market stock and a Leupold 2.5X-8X scope and rings, and it weighed 8.5 pounds. Add four rounds of ammo and a light sling, and it is about 9 pounds even. Just right IMHO.

Mike375,
The 375 RUM is much better than a lever action, even if it is an M-700. The "CZ-70" should be light years beyond any lever action. Wanna move this to the big bores forum?

RAB,

One of the things I find interesting about the 375 RUM is the total lack of interest in the caliber on this or other forums. There was a post I think in Reloading and I was the only one who replied.

However, given that Saeed not only uses a "375 RUM" but has two of them as his main rifles and for all game, you would think there would be more interest in the caliber.

The only other new calibers that seem to lack total interest is the Short Remington Ultras.

Perhaps if the 375 RUM was available in an off the shelf rifle like a Model 70 or CZ 550, then interest would be higher.

Mike

Mike,
I don't think most folks here or anywhere else give a rat's behind about Saeed using a 375/404. That's not meant to be derogatory but rather to simply show that the general public has never shown much interest in any 375 except the H&H.
While I don't fall into that camp personally, I can completely understand why they feel as they do. The 375RUM really provides nothing but extra recoil, less magazine capacity and more expense for the average hunter. It will likely go down as one of the poorer selling RUMs, simply because the largest percentage of the market is always at 30cal and under.

John,

In non custom rifles is not true that both the 375 RUM and 375 H&H will have 3 round magazine capacity.

I was thinking of Saeed's wide use of the 375/404 in terms of the large exposure the caliber gets. I am also thinking of the big bore non African shooters that populate the Big Bore Forum. The 375 RUM is also dead there. Given that many of those mebers are using 505 Gibbs and 585 Nyatis for their plinking and light game rifle one would think cost and recoil of the 375 RUM would not be an issue. It is deaded than dead in Australia as well.

Perhaps both Americans and Australians have a sub conscious desire to retain some strings ith mother England and the 375 H&H provides the last link

The other RUM that seems to be dead on the forums is the 7mm RUM, yet the 30/378 gets a good run.

Mike

The major problems with the RUM case are designed in. With the rebated rim it will never feed as reliably as a 404 with a non-rebated rim. With the sharper shoulder you get more feeding issues. This is not to say that a competent smith couldn't make it work, but it would always have less margin for error- dirt, wear, dings would be more likely to upset the applecart.

Still, if I thought the 375 RUM was going to survive I would consider getting one - to get a cheap clone of Saeed's 375/404. There are more degrees of freedom in loading with the bigger case.

But rather than go wildcat for a 375, I'd just use the H&H. It is a very nice cartridge design that has more than withstood the test of time.

Don

Mike 375

It is very noticeable how little exposure the .375 RUM gets especially given the success that Saeed has had with it.

I also think that if the .375 RUM was available in a M70 or CZ550 then it may get more of a following.

DaggaRon

Do you not find a 26inch barrel on a long action makes the rig too long? On the other hand what would you think is the min barrel to get most of the benefit of the .375RUM. I have a .338win M70 with a 26inch barrel & I find it annoying that the extra 2 inches seems to snag so much more & getting in & out of cars when travelling paddock to paddock seem a bit more of a hassle.

When you get your CZ70 back, be interested in how that barrel shoots. I presume you have the barrel with the lug welded on. Mike 375 does not reckon they will shoot too well & the gunsmiths I talk to think the same. Anyway it is not needed on a .375. If I can't find a decent priced M70 action I think a CZ70 as you call it may not be a bad option.

My Sako with HS precision stock weighs the same as your LSS. You don't need to check whether it has gone off or not. You know. But for hunting & with a good recoil pad its fine.

Don G,

The 375 RUM idea came out cause I have a brand new "discarded" Win .375 H&H barrel.

I will already have 2 375 H&H's a Sako & a custom off a new m70 safari express. One push feed & one CRF.

Main concern for me would be the recoil. IMHO a H&H recoils enough. I noticed that Saeed's first rifle had a muzzle brake but the second did not. The RUMs do have a reputation for recoil & muzzle blast.

But as you said an easier & perhaps cheaper way in to a 375/404 rather than a wildcat.

I think any difficulty with feeding should be able to be overcome with enough of a user base the tricks of the trade will develop. It does seem that this will happen as the WSM's seem to have taken off. If they can those short & fat cases to feed (not saying that the problem has been solved now)the longer case should be a breeze.

Thanks to all for your input.

JohnT

JohnT,
I prefer barrels of 23 to 25 inches on bolt actions, but the 26" barrel is on a Rem.700, so what does it matter!

The CZ-70 does have one of those awful Winchester barrel lugs, but I am having the smith true up the booger, fingers crossed. The hot glue bedding was covering up a chewed up recoil lug recess also, but that barrel shot 1.5 MOA with factory ammo, so there is hope that with proper refinement and handloads, the barrel will do better. It is now 23" long so it will be a little stiffer maybe.

Beggars like me can't be too choosey, but we get lucky sometimes.

The rebated rim thing is overblown. There is only 1/100 (.01) inch difference per side between the head and the rim.

My two cents.

Great ammo maker used 375 Rum to kill a 1200 pound bear, at over 400 yards.

Rationale was that, unless you are dinner, you will never get closer to a grizzly that size, then 400 yards, since that's how they got that big, being smart.

Counter point: Couple very large bears took 10-11 shots of 375 H&H to finally die, one, trying to kill the shooter. So, mag capacity is a BIG deal, since these guys can absorb multiple hits, and keep coming.

So, if you are shooting long range, the RUM is a great idea.

If you are shooting short range, I think, IIRC, Saeed said the 375 is just fine. Saeed, correct me if I'm wrong, but, shot placement, magazine capacity, and accuracy, with a 375 are the heaviest weighted factors, unless shooting bears, at long range?

gs

HI,

Gentlemen, I would like if you could give me some information on this subject. I am looking to get a custom 375AI. I will have MR. Ricks make the rifle for me, once I get the action and scope and send it to him, maybe in a few months. I want to get a 375AI, is there any differents between the 375RUM and 375 AI as far as fps, or will they both push a 375 bullet about the same. I know the 375 RUM is beltless, I like the fact that a 375AI will shoot a 375H+H if needed.I have no experience with either of these rounds so would appreciate your help and advice. Thanks,Kev

Kev,
I see the 375 AI as midway between the 375 H&H and 375 RUM in horse power.

I am familiar with the 375 Weatherby, having shot game in Alaska with it, with the 375 H&H, having shot game in Alaska, Kentucky, and Africa with it, and with the 375 RUM, 378 Weatherby, and 375/338, having shot paper over chronographs with all of them. I am itching to shoot game with all of them, anywhere. All of them will handle anything on earth, and so will the Ackley version.

The 375 Magnum Improved Ackley (MIA) round is of course very similar to the 375 JRS and 375 Weatherby.

Headstamped Brass by Norma is readily available for the 375 Weatherby currently and you can shoot 375 H&H in it just like the 375 MIA, in a pinch.

The most practical of all the 375 improveds (though some would call this an oxymoron) would have to go to the 375 Weatherby, because of the excellent brass situation, and factory ammo for now: it has come and gone and come back again. Some don't like the "venturified" Weatherby shoulder and freebore of factory Weatherby rifles. For them there is the 375 MIA and its attendant brass headstamp situation.

HI,

Thanks for the information. Kev