It's time to tax foreign trophy hunters


Foreign trophy hunters kill more than a million wild animals in South Africa every year. According to a report in our sister newspaper the Sunday Independent, quoting the Professional Hunters' Association, in 2004/05 foreign hunters shot 305 lions, 51 elephants, 74 white rhinos, 202 buffaloes and 34 leopards.Those in favour of hunting like to point out that foreign hunters bring in valuable foreign currency (mostly dollars) which they spend not only on the animals - killing a lion costs about R120 000, a white rhino R200 000, an elephant R147 000, and a leopard R55 000 - but also on food, lodgings and transport, giving the economy a boost and providing funds which can be used for conservation.This may be true, though some commentators suggest that very little of the revenue from hunting i, in fact spent on the preservation of wildlife. And it is hard to see how the pitiful sums of money hunters pay to bag some of the smaller animals can contribute much at all. (A puff adder or Cape cobra costs a mere R25; a genet R110 and a honey badger R300. One hunter apparently even killed a black-footed cat.) Surely there is an opportunity here for a dedicated tax? A tax on hunting - all hunting - would presumably be easy enough to administer, and, set at the right levels, would bring in a neat sum of money which could be used on wildlife.Imagine, for instance, a tax of just 25% of the animal's value. The 305 dead lions would have brought in R9,15-million, the dead rhinos R3,7-million and the dead elephants R1,87-million. Many dollar-rich foreign tourists would be prepared to pay the extra price. And as for those who would not, well, we could afford to do without them. The lions and rhinos would thank us for it.

Published on the web by Pretoria News on June 25, 2006.

Wow, why didn't someone think of this before!?!

Another, sister tax on retarded newspaper articles....say on a per-word basis, "would bring bring in a neat sum of money which could be used on wildlife" too!

Namibia sounds better and better every day.

Instead of a "tax" they should sell hunting licenses or something. If they jack up the price to much they'll be cutting thier own throughts. I'd be willing to pay a little more for a hunt but will not spend an additional 25%!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Ivan:
Namibia sounds better and better every day.

My thoughts exactly.

quote:

... Imagine, for instance, a tax of just 25% of the animal's value. .... Many dollar-rich foreign tourists would be prepared to pay the extra price. ...

JUST 25% !!!???? Just?? I don't think 25% is a small or marginal tax rate! That little 25% tax would effectively raise prices by 25% to the consumer (hunter). Typical leftist socialist thinking that the "rich" foreign hunters have an endless supply of money. Of course, I don't think socialists ever heard of the economic law of supply and demand.

Hmmmm... Mozambique is looking better.

-Bob F.

The silly ass who wrote the article doesn't seem to realize foreign trophy hunters, who have been paying trophy fees there, since the fifties are the one and only reason they have an animals to sell at all.

or that they have an economy aswell that hasnt gone bancrupted as Zimbabwes also.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Gorsline:
The silly ass who wrote the article doesn't seem to realize foreign trophy hunters, who have been paying trophy fees there, since the fifties are the one and only reason they have an animals to sell at all.

Absolutely.....

But the good news is that (apparantly) we have deported some of our Democrats...

This approach is poorly thought out and ill advised. Many North American hunters take the trip to the dark continent by the skin of their teeth. Adding a signifigant tax to this cost would cause many to reconsider. I had wanted to take lion and hippo as well as buffalo on my trip to Tanzania - until I found out the cost that is. If, due to the cost, I was also prevented from hunting buffalo, I would of simply dropped the whole idea and gone on a dall sheep hunt in the Yukon, where I have family.

Just goes to show how ignorant the author was... hunters already pay taxes on the animals they shoot. The charge is called permit and licence fees (depending on what schedule the animal is listed on) and its paid directly to the Provincial Game Dapartment. - These fees haven't been increased for some years though....

As John Marshall once said, "The power to tax is the power to destroy."

Children shouldn't play with fire.

analog_peninsula

Hope the democrats over here don't get any bright ideas on this subject.....jorge

I wish I knew who the arse is that wrote that article. The goverment gets a lot of money from hunters, PH licence fees, outfitter licence fees, exemption permit fees. They do not even work to get the monies. The profit I make is taxable, if less clients comes in I and many other outfitters will earn less, therefore less taxes for them. Overseas clients pays for licence fees and permits, they pay more at the national parks. They spend a heck of a lot of money on souveniers. The taxidermist is paying tax on his profit as well as the company exporting the trophies.

As it is it is allready difficult to survive in the hunting industry, now this arse wants to make it more difficult. We need foreign currency in RSA, we do not want to chase foreighners away.

BTW what about the money spent by foreighners on SAA and at hotels, guest houses etc., the list can continue forever.

Some people must lift their arses of the chair infront of their computers, so that their brains can get some oxygen

I forgot to add, the fact that there is a monetary value on animals helps to conserve them. Where does most of the Rhinos and Elephants come from, from Kruger and Ezimvilo KZN Wildlife. They make the big bucks when selling of their excess animals, do they use the money for conservation or do they hold parties with it. Just wondering.

Might I suggest we send them a few e-mails pointing out how mis informed the author of the pice really is.

Just follow the links. http://www.pretorianews.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=1707

http://www.sundayindependent.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=2590

and for a norwegian that is finding out the paperwork for becoming a booking agent to SA, that will be a 25 % tax to SA aswell to Norway, our general tax is 25 %x2 is 50 %, thats 25 too much.

quote:

Those in favour of hunting like to point out that foreign hunters bring in valuable foreign currency (mostly dollars) which they spend not only on the animals - killing a lion costs about R120 000, a white rhino R200 000, an elephant R147 000, and a leopard R55 000 - but also on food, lodgings and transport, giving the economy a boost and providing funds which can be used for conservation.This may be true, though some commentators suggest that very little of the revenue from hunting i, in fact spent on the preservation of wildlife. And it is hard to see how the pitiful sums of money hunters pay to bag some of the smaller animals can contribute much at all. (A puff adder or Cape cobra costs a mere R25; a genet R110 and a honey badger R300. One hunter apparently even killed a black-footed cat.) Surely there is an opportunity here for a dedicated tax?

I have never met a dedicated socialist who didn't believe there was an opportunity for a dedicated tax. I kind of have a soft spot for them because I know upfront that any effort is wasted. The uncommitted might be reached by persuasion and reason. Anybody who could write this too far gone to be salvagable. They have self-destruction hardwired into them. There's no point in bothering with them.

If they tax stupidity they will raise enough money to fix any problem they have. I guess if they want less money/hunters to come to SA then go ahead and put a tax on hunting. Instead of 25%, why not 100%. History has taught a few of us that whenever you raise taxes you net fewer dollars. Remember the cigarette tax. Every time they raise it a few more people quit smoking. I'm not going to quit hunting, but I damn sure am not going to get poked in the butt in SA.

Thanks for the link Steve, I,ve just submitted my reply

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Remember the cigarette tax. Every time they raise it a few more people quit smoking.

I believe that is precisely the idea behind cigarette taxation.

Go to town on this one, Steve and Jaco. Stop it before some fool takes this on as a pet project. Both Steve and Jaco hit the nail on the head when they pointed out just what we do actually pay in licenses and permits. This crazy idea, of some reckless ass/idiot, would EFFECTIVELY DESTROY ALL HUNTING IN SOUTH AFRICA BY FOREIGNERS.

"...Many dollar-rich foreign tourists would be prepared to pay the extra price. And as for those who would not, well, we could afford to do without them...."

Think so? Just try this approach "...do without them..." and see the outcome!

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And as for those who would not, well, we could afford to do without them.

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A puff adder or Cape cobra costs a mere R25

I don´t want to start a riot here, but... is the 45-70 a good caliber to hunt puff adders on my next safari?

Antonio

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:
I wish I knew who the arse is that wrote that article. The goverment gets a lot of money from hunters, PH licence fees, outfitter licence fees, exemption permit fees. They do not even work to get the monies. The profit I make is taxable, if less clients comes in I and many other outfitters will earn less, therefore less taxes for them. Overseas clients pays for licence fees and permits, they pay more at the national parks. They spend a heck of a lot of money on souveniers. The taxidermist is paying tax on his profit as well as the company exporting the trophies.

As it is it is allready difficult to survive in the hunting industry, now this arse wants to make it more difficult. We need foreign currency in RSA, we do not want to chase foreighners away.

BTW what about the money spent by foreighners on SAA and at hotels, guest houses etc., the list can continue forever.

Some people must lift their arses of the chair infront of their computers, so that their brains can get some oxygen

your posts are on the money(no pun intended).

i will send an email using shakaris link to the pretoria news in support of your comments and add 1 or 2 of my own.

for an example,after shooting about a dozen impalas,they have seriously lost their luster at 300 to 600 bucks a pop as a trophy fee now and i doubt i will shoot anymore.

sounds as if they wish to bite the hand that feeds them.

a 25% increase is certainly enough to stall a 1st timer from s.a. and a veteran just to say piss off.there is such a thing as "pricing yourself out of the market".

It reads to me as nothing more than another "greenie" attempt to hurt the safari industry and reduce hunting.

The writer does not even hide the fact they consider a new tax decreasing the number of hunters is actually a good thing, in their opinion.

ie "The lions and rhinos would thank us for it."

Similar sorts of bullshit articles appear from time to time all around the world with another crackpot suggesting some sort of tax the motive for which is actually to harm the industry they are lobbying the tax be imposed on.

Its a pity these "news reports" don't give the proper "credits" when posted to AR, ie the author, paper, date, source etc. If they are available.

This idiot forgets that 95% of the animals shot in RSA by hunters are the private property of landowners, no different than cows or sheep. In fact, most were purchased and/or bred specifically to be shot. The animals are not the property of the state. So on what logical basis does the government think they are entitled to a tax on the sale of those animals? They already tax the property owner on any profit he makes. He probably already pays GST (sales tax) on his sales as well (although I am not 100% on this). However, I am the first to admit that logic is not a common commodity in African politics. Unless you confuse self-interest with logic.

He also obviously never attended an economics class in his life. Taxes are always shared by both seller and buyer. If the demand for the item is fairly price-sensitive (as is the case when the same thing is availalbe elsewhere for less), the seller has to meet the competition and most if not all of the tax comes out of his pocket. So this is really a tax the will be heavily borne by landowners, not by "Rich Foreigners".

Now if you are a landowner that has to pay tax on every trophy without the ability to pass it on, you will reverse course and go back to farming sheep and cattle. HUGE VICTORY FOR CONSERVATION you blithering cretin.

Idiot.

That's no way to talk to Russ - he only expressing an opinion...

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:

HUGE VICTORY FOR CONSERVATION you blithering cretin.

Russ how could you....
This poor sod is sitting on his brains, all he is doing is to express his uninformed view.

However, as I am a very caring person and I like to help educate the uninformed, I decided that SA Hunting Experience will sponsor a mid week break away to a Lion camp for the author of the article. We will supply a basic shelter and other basic equipment. Fortuneately no weapons of any kind are allowed in the reserve.

I am also looking for a sponsor to extend his stay to gain some experience with the African Wild Dogs. I've heard they are a bunch of viscious SOB's

Steve can you maybe help out. There is a big chance that we might not need your sponsorship.

Yup and I'll throw in a few hyenas as well...

Put a mamba in his/her tent and see how animal friendly they are.

I sent an email and informed of the many enjoyable days I have spent in RSA, but my life would go on if I never returned for another hunt in RSA and would enjoy Namabia etc in the future if such tax were to be enacted.

and a couple of Leopard that sits in the tree, or a mad cape buffalo aswell and i think the RSA would pay the hunters 25% just to come to RSA to hunt ?

Question if that happend and a hunter was scitzophrenic would he be paid more then???

Lest us not forget the existing 14% VAT. Let's do the math. 14 + 25=39 Yikes! Seems a little over the top to me. Will drop them a little note.

Mark

have they forgot that there is a tax already on the hunters?

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Lest us not forget the existing 14% VAT. Let's do the math. 14 + 25=39 Yikes! Seems a little over the top to me. Will drop them a little note.

Mark

Vat @ 14% is only payable on the day fees, and cannot be claimed back. If a trophy will be exported no VAT is payable. What do worry me is hunters who only takes photos and the trophy is not exported, are they subjected to VAT. I do not want to ask, I might wake up somebody.

Antonio,

As for using the 45-70 for puff adders - only at close range.

Jaco,

Perhaps I misunderstood. I interpreted the article as meaning the whole hunt would be taxed. I did write the paper a note expressing my views.

Mark

I don't mean no disrespect to the many good people of Africa but why are there some many that are absolute IDIOTS!!!! Gov. officials and some civilians.Greed,corruption etc. Its a shame that many countries have such a good thing in hunting but they do all they can to screw it up.

Can some of you intellectuals explain to this somewhat dense country boy why this is?

Steve