For those out there with elephant hunting experience, I was hoping to gather some information on the various calibers people picked. Thanks for the input.

Question:
I killed my first elephant with a _____ caliber rifle.

Choices:
375 H&H, RUM, etc.
450-400 NE
416 Rigby, Rem Mag, etc.
404
458 Win Mag
458 Watt, Lott, etc.
470 NE, Mbogo, etc.
500 Jeffery, NE, etc.
505 Gibbs
577 or 600 NE, etc
700
9.3 or less
Other (please specify)

Question:
With the knowledge gained from my first elephant hunt, the next time I will carry (or did carry) a ________ caliber.

Choices:
375 H&H, RUM, etc.
450-400 NE
416 Rigby, Rem, etc
404
458 Win Mag
458 Lott, Watts, etc
470 NE, Mbogo, etc
500 Jeffery, NE, etc
505 Gibbs
577 or 600 NE, etc.
700
9.3 or less
Other (please specify)

Question:
On one of my elephant hunts I have stopped a charge or witnessed the PH stop a charge with a ______ caliber. (If you have experienced multiple elephant charges, please pick the smallest caliber you have used to stop an elephant.)

Choices:
I have no experience stopping a charge
375 H&H, RUM, etc.
450-400 NE
416 Rigby, Rem, etc
404
458 Win Mag
458 Lott, Watts, etc
470 NE, Mbogo, etc
500 Jeffery, NE, etc
505 Gibbs
577 or 600 NE, etc
700
9.3 or less
Other (please specify)

 

Used a .375H&H on my first Ele. Came home and immediately bought a BIGGER rifle - .416Rem.

Now own a .458Lott for Ele. I do like the .416 and would not feel under gunned if I took a surprise charge while armed with it.

Good poll.

Yes, well engineered indeed!

.416 Rem / .458 Lott / No Charges (in 5 ele hunts)

I used a 458 Lott on the first 4 elephants and my 50 B&M for the last two. When I go for elephant again I will be using my new 500 MDM.

Michael

I used a .458 WM on the first two, then a .500 NE on the next five. This year I will be using a .500 NE again.

Since we're giving individual results,

18 x 458wm

After the fact, never saw a NEED for more, but during, well, I sure wished I was holding a 500NE a time or two!

JPK

Another good add to the poll would be the number of shots with the initial caliber versus the number of shots with the subsequent caliber. In my case it was:

.458

1 - 4 shots
2 - 3 shots

.500

1 - 2 shots
2 - 1 shot
3 - 1 shot
4 - 1 shot
5 - 1 shot

Helps explain my fascination with the .500.

For obvious reasons I couldn't answer the pole in entirety. First 5 with a 500/465 Nitro, then 5 with a 458 lott, then several with the 470 nitro and one with the 458 Win. I have seen two charges stopped the first was with a 450/400 3 1/4" and the second with a 375 H&H.

465H&H

the best calibre for elephant is the largest you can comfortably and accurately shoot.

the .500 is an incredible calibre ..my 450 3&1/4 is also excellent.
i have seen great success with a huge number of calibres and as usual it comes down to shot placement ..

as far as penetration and all round on a bolt gun , 416 gets my bid , as far as what double ....450 3&1/4 , 470 , 500 are all excellent

First with a 375 H&H,second with a 470 Nitro, third with a 416 Rigby. If I were ever to have the opportunity to hunt Elephant again I would use my 416 Rigby. I feel quite comfortable with it. As far as charges go I would NEVER hunt without a competant PH to back me up and it is NOT because of the caliber of the rifle. While I feel confident I could handle a charge I have no absolute assurance of that, never having experienced one. And I frankly don't believe ANYONE no matter how experienced can say differently until they have personally experienced and stopped one. And at one stop you would be hard pressed to say it wasn't just luck.

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
the best calibre for elephant is the largest you can comfortably and accurately shoot.

the .500 is an incredible calibre ..my 450 3&1/4 is also excellent.
i have seen great success with a huge number of calibres and as usual it comes down to shot placement ..

as far as penetration and all round on a bolt gun , 416 gets my bid , as far as what double ....450 3&1/4 , 470 , 500 are all excellent

I thought you were supposed to be hunting.

Ive only ever used my 416 rigby but next year iam planning on using my joseph lang and sons 450 no2.

Mike,
I thing it is not the caliber but your bigger experience with ele hunting that need less shots to kill an ele but when I¨ll be adult I¨ll buy a 500 too .
Petr Louda

quote:

Originally posted by rtep:
Mike,
I thing it is not the caliber but your bigger experience with ele hunting that need less shots to kill an ele but when I¨ll be adult I¨ll buy a 500 too .
Petr Louda

Gentlemen, one advantage Mike has is, he can shoot with what ever is in his hands at any given time! He shot his 458 Win Mag just as well as he shoots the 500NE, but there is no doubt in anyone's mind that the 500NE has a real advantage over the 458 Win Mag, given identical placement!

I can't vote on the Ele poll, because I have fired exactly two shots into the heart/lung of an ele with a 500/450NE on a friend's ele as back up, on a botched first try at a brain shot. Not needed however, because his second shot found the brain from a quartering away shot behind the ear, dropping him in a red cloud of dust. He was using a 500NE.

I have a 470NE that has taken two elephant by it's original owner, so it is a proven rifle/caliber. Given the choices, and opportunity to hunt ele, though, my pick would be a 500NE double, hands down!

OK Mac, I agree.
Petr

This poll is very interesting. I would not have thought that even first time elephant hunters would be as likely to use the 375 as the poll reflects. I would also like to know the reason so many hunters on their second elephant hunt chose a heavier rifle. Was the 375 not up to the task? The 375 was still a prominent choice so many must have been happy with their first experience.

Mark

I haven't killed that many Elephants, but If pushed for a single do-all Ele rifle, I'd go for a .500 all things considered, weight, penetration, recoil versus second shot recovery time.

The .500 is just about king when it comes to the all around DR for DG.

JW

Mark i think its because once youve been up close and personal with a ele you can see hoe easy he can flatten you.So you go back home and buy the biggest gun you can get.it makes you feel better and more invisible.

Interesting. The much maligned 458WM actually comes off pretty well. Reading some of the posts here you would think that it would literally bounce off an Elephant.

Alan Shearing and I stopped a charge with a 458 Win Mag/ 458 Lott combo. 2010 I will take my 500NE and (perhaps) my 470 AR.

"Once you've been amongst them there's no such thing as too much gun".

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
Interesting. The much maligned 458WM actually comes off pretty well. Reading some of the posts here you would think that it would literally bounce off an Elephant.

I too noticed that, as well as many calibers not traditionally classified as stopping calibers. However, the survey is engineered towards the smallest caliber used to stop a charge. If someone had stopped a charge with 458 WM on one occasion and a 700 NE on another, they would choose the 458 WM.

My intent was not to prove that smaller calibers are stopping rifles, but to see if people had stopped a charge using a smaller caliber. I figured nobody would raise an eyebrow if the survey said a bunch of 470 NE and 505 Gibbs were stopping charges as it is generally agreed they are stopping calibers. When we get to calibers below 458 is when the line of stopping caliber begins to get fuzzy. I did, however, purposefully place the 458 WM in it's own category due in part to the controversy around it. I would be curious though to know how many people would face a charge again with the caliber they originally stopped the charge with.

Put some charts together to make comparison easier.

Kinda interesting but it seems to just show what the hunter just happened to have as opposed to any special reasoning behind the choice, especially during a charge. It is not like anyone getting charged is going to have a chance to change their mind about what to shoot at that moment!

It would have been vastly more interesting if another question was included such as "What calibers have you seen fail to stop a charge?"

465H&H

And, once again, history is history and 5000 ft-lbs and 400 caliber as the starting point on elephant is proven, once again.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
And, once again, history is history and 5000 ft-lbs and 400 caliber as the starting point on elephant is proven, once again.

Will,

You are infinitely more qualified to draw such conclusions based on your hunting experience. However, I simply don't understand how you believe that this data supports your theory. Can you explain your reasoning?

I believe that Bill was referring to the data showing that regardless of what folks used the first time -- and many started at the .375 or .416 level, the second time they generally went bigger.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I believe that Bill was referring to the data showing that regardless of what folks used the first time -- and many started at the .375 or .416 level, the second time they generally went bigger.

That makes the assumption that 5 people switched from the 375 bought the larger rifle because they thought they NEEDED it for the hunt and not because they wanted another rifle.

Don't get me wrong, knowing nothing about elephant hunting, I wouldn't want to take 375 after one, but I don't see the evidence in this data that says that one can't or shouldn't

The data (information) indeed does not support any theory that I can see right off hand. The information is just a listing of what has been used by some hunters, for better or worse and without any analyzes of the results of or the wisdom of those choices.

Any cartridge that is capable of delivering a bullet to the brain or heart/lungs is sufficient but not necessarily the wisest choice. It has been witnessed by countless hunters, including myself, that in order to knock down or turn an elephant on a semi-reliable basis, it better be 5000 ft-lbs or more.

Or, to put it another way, what would you use if you were going it alone?

quote:

Originally posted by Sevens:

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
Interesting. The much maligned 458WM actually comes off pretty well. Reading some of the posts here you would think that it would literally bounce off an Elephant.

I too noticed that, as well as many calibers not traditionally classified as stopping calibers. However, the survey is engineered towards the smallest caliber used to stop a charge. If someone had stopped a charge with 458 WM on one occasion and a 700 NE on another, they would choose the 458 WM.

My intent was not to prove that smaller calibers are stopping rifles, but to see if people had stopped a charge using a smaller caliber. I figured nobody would raise an eyebrow if the survey said a bunch of 470 NE and 505 Gibbs were stopping charges as it is generally agreed they are stopping calibers. When we get to calibers below 458 is when the line of stopping caliber begins to get fuzzy. I did, however, purposefully place the 458 WM in it's own category due in part to the controversy around it. I would be curious though to know how many people would face a charge again with the caliber they originally stopped the charge with.

I would say those days are over now for the 458 Win Mag. However, there was a time when bullets from the 458 DID bounce off elephants, and not only eles but buffalo as well.

It has been only in the last five or ten years that the 458 Win Mag has become reliable enough to be safe to use on ele with any consistency. The advent of better powders for that small case are, in fact, fairly new, and seem to work quite well.

I can remember, however, when one never knew if the rifle would fire or not if the loads where more than a week old! Hang fires were common with this little bastard cartridge, but with a vaccination of new and improved powders, it has finally grown up. The 458 Win Mag was a mistake by Winchester in the first place, and should have been the 458 LOTT to start with. Face facts, the 458 Win Mag was introduced at a time when it did not work well, and it took 40 yrs to get the powders to make it right! The LOTT would have hit the ground running, and never let up! All the 458 Win Mag needed was a little more powder capacity ie the 458 LOTT made on a full length 375 H&H case!

Mac,

Richard Harland and Ron Thomson, between them, shot nearly ten thousand (10,000) elephants with the 458wm. Using Winchester ammo right out of the box. Neither ever reported a failure of the 458wm. That is just two guys.

Much baloney in those oft repeated wives tales, very, very little actual experience.

JPK

quote:

The data (information) indeed does not support any theory that I can see right off hand. The information is just a listing of what has been used by some hunters, for better or worse and without any analyzes of the results of or the wisdom of those choices.

The survey is merely a survey. I was curious what caliber people had shot elephant with and if they had gone to larger calibers after the first hunt. It seems like there is a slight trend to want something bigger after the first hunt, but only just a slightly.

There are many other great questions that could have been asked, but for simplicity sake I kept it to three. I figured if I started asking too many questions people would be less inclined to take the survey. And many thanks to those who took the survey!

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Mac,

Richard Harland and Ron Thomson, between them, shot nearly ten thousand (10,000) elephants with the 458wm. Using Winchester ammo right out of the box. Neither ever reported a failure of the 458wm. That is just two guys.

Much baloney in those oft repeated wives tales, very, very little actual experience.

JPK

You 458 WM users are so touchy! But I think Thomson had some problems with his 458 throwing some duds at one point, but as you say it is neither here nor there now.

He also said that he thought the 470 was a much better killer than the 458 but maybe some of the 458 duds was why he came to that conclusion.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
The data (information) indeed does not support any theory that I can see right off hand. The information is just a listing of what has been used by some hunters, for better or worse and without any analyzes of the results of or the wisdom of those choices.

Thanks. For the record, I'm looking at picking up a 416Rigby or 404J as my DG gun in case I ever go after an elephant.

JPK

In my discussions with Barry Duckworth who has shot piles or ele's about calibers for big game and specifically elephant he said the two 458's he used in control work had served him well. The only failure he mentioned was with an early WW 510 gr soft on a lion that nearly got him. He uses a 505 now but I think he likes the beautiful big magnum Mauser as well as the caliber.

Mark

Sevens

Thanks for putting up this poll, imho it is one of our better ones.

TerryR

First Elephant (Kulo Kunta, Kaffa Province, Ethiopia) was with a .375 H&H with 300 grain Hornady Solids.

Second was in Tepi Plantation area but I failed to stop a charge with a .458 (plus 2 .375's from other's). Finished him off from underneath (almost the other way around)
All of the rest have been with a .458 Lott.
Rich Elliott