"Using the mailing lists for the International Professional Hunters Association and the Professional Hunters Association of South Africa, I sent short, one-page surveys out to several hundred active professional hunters, men who pursue their careers all across Africa. The 100-odd respondents run the gamut of the industry."

I can't quote the whole article, but I'll give a summary of the results. He asked these professional hunters what rifles they would recommend that their clients bring to Africa. Boddington asked for one-rifle recommendations, two-rifle recommendations, and three-rifle recommendations. Most of the PH's said that three is too many, so that category did not figure in the results.

For a one-gun recommendation, here are the results:

70 mentions for the .375 H&H
8 for .30-06
5 for one of the .300 Mags.
4 for 8x68S
3 for .270
2 for .338 Mag.
2 for 7mm Mag.
1 for 9.3x64
1 for .416 Hoffman
1 for .416 Rigby

For two rifles, these were the results (a slash / means one of that group):

19 mentions for 7mm Mag. + .375 H&H
18 -- .300 Mag. + .375 H&H
13 -- .30-06 + .375 H&H
15 -- .270/.280/.308/7x57 + .375 H&H
6 -- .300 Mag. + .458
5 -- .243 + .375 H&H
4 -- .30-06 + .458
3 -- .338 Mag. + .375 H&H
3 -- .375 H&H + .458/460
2 -- .338 Mag. + .458
2 -- .270 + .300 Mag.
2 -- 7mm Mag. + .416
2 -- .300 Mag + .416
1 -- .338 Mag. + .416
1 -- .30-06 + .416
1 -- 7mm Mag. + .458
1 -- .30-06 + .300 Mag.

Boddington notes that the .416s were just coming into prominence at the time he did the survey, so that if it had been done later perhaps they would have made a stronger showing.

Several other points, quoting him:

"It's interesting to note that all of the cartridges recommended are commonly available; there were no obscure wildcats and nothing obsolete. In combination with the .375, most respondents suggested a .270 Winchester, .30-06, 7mm Magnum, or one of the .300s. Several didn't specify an exact cartridge, writing down instead something like '.270-.30-06 - 7mm + .375.'"

And also:

"Flinching was reported as a common problem. Many professionals stated that, in spite of specific recommendations for relatively heavy cartridges, they would much rather see a client with a light rifle he could shoot than a more adequate rifle that he feared."

My conclusion: Despite the opinions of many who post to this list, there is indeed something between the 9.3s and the .22 lr, and the rifles that fit in that gap are very useful for a lot of African hunting.

[This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 01-02-2002).]

Talking to several PH about this subject, they all seem to agree on one thing - regardless of what caliber to bring along to hunt with.

The reflection on what caliber they recommend all depends on who have hunted with them in the past, and how those rifles performed in the clients hands.

That is you should take the rifle you know well enough to shoot well with.

------------------
saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

Most of these guys only have a very vague interest in guns or ballistics.

As an appy, they tend to buy the cheapest rifle/ammo combination thay can find, or use the rifle someone gave them.

The current PH opinions cannot be compared to the professional hunters of Taylor's time, when the PH's were making a living shooting hundreds and thousands of large DG animals.

If you are shooting antelope in SA you probably don't need a 375, but it helps.

And it depends on the PH giving the opinion. PH's with extensive experience may have entirely different opinions.

I am sure Saeed has taken more buff and ele than most PH's. According to Tony Sanchez I have taken more elephant than most PH's, which is pretty scary!!

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-01-2002).]

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Good Hunting & Hunt Safe,
David

quote:

---

Originally posted by ALF:
What I have never been able to comprehend is the choice of two similar calibers for hunting in africa, eg. Someone choosing to take a 375 and a 416 as their pair?

---

Boddington makes the same comment in this article. In particular, he questions the logic of a .338 Mag. + .375 H&H pair, as they are so similar.

In a lot of ways cartridge selection is an overrated concern (sort of like a tidal wave in a tin cup!), even though it's a fun topic and it's certainly good for a lot of folks in the hunting industry who make a living selling rifles and ammunition to those who simply MUST have exactly the right ordinance on hand for all occasions, and who are convince that nothing they already own will do the job properly.....!

AD

Me thinks that those who have the above opinion have different views on caliber/rifle/cartridges then many PH�s so therefore the PH�s opinions can�t be right.

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Howard
Moses Lake WA
hhomes@homesley.com

Happy New Year

Joe

458 got a bad rap, for bad bullets, that exploded with no penetration.

Solids can keyhole if not properly stabilized, as well. Long bullet.
g
s

I have used the 416 with 350 grain X-Bullet to take game at 342 yards. The 375 is an even better long range wonder with the right bullet, and more gentle in recoil.

Either one will do it all, and the other is just along as a failsafe. Adequacy and redundancy for any situation. A one gun hunt with a spare, an ace in the hole.

Some of us shoot the 375's and 416's as accurately as we shoot the small bores. My 375 H&H weighs 8.5 lbs. field ready, scoped, and with 5 cartridges on board. It is the perfect antelope or mountain sheep rifle and has slain buffalo and bear quite well to boot.

It was with a light and happy heart that I hunted Botswana with a 375 and a 416. No worries, I was ready for anything anytime, as long as I wasn't hunting with Mark Sullivan, and as long as I did have a competent PH, which I did.

A double rifle of 450/400 NE or larger is mandatory if hunting with MS.

------------------
Happiness is a warm double.
RAB

In Africa you have some min calibers on certain game but other than that, shoot what you can shoot well. (dont take the .22/250 of course).

Why use a 30-06 with a 220 grain, when you can use a 375 with a 220 grain, and have higher velocity, and bigger diameter, if you want it?
It's all about choices, and the lower calibers limit the choice of bullet weights, and velocity, applicable to African game.

One thing to be said for an 06 is it has a LOT of bullet choices.
gs

Sarge

If I zero at 200 yards, whatever rifle I use, unless it's a 458, isn't really going to drop that much, using a lighter bullet.

If Gerald will get some of those HV's in 416,
oh, he has them. 330 grain, and with that form, boattail and all, I suspect I could get some ungodly kind of flat shooting load with it.

Or, with a 375. The ballistic coefficent on those has to be better then the 220 grain
30 caliber bullets.

How about an HV 265 grain out of a 375?
Light recoil, scary ballistic coefficent, and I'm sure they perform, without blowing up.

Gerald, where are you?
We need some ballistics, and comments about your bullets on plains games.

He's bullets aren't expensive, either.

gs

quote:

---

Originally posted by 470 Mbogo:

The information that you posted from the article in Big Bore magazine is information that Craig pulled from his excellent book Safari Rifles.

---

This is correct. At the end of the article there is an editor's note that says: "The Professional's Choice Today" is excerpted from Craig Boddington's Safari Rifles (Safari Press, Long Beach, CA 1991).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saeed:
Talking to several PH about this subject, they all seem to agree on one thing - regardless of what caliber to bring along to hunt with.

The reflection on what caliber they recommend all depends on who have hunted with them in the past, and how those rifles performed in the clients hands.

That is you should take the rifle you know well enough to shoot well with.

---

Yes. Boddington makes this point by quoting Joe Coogan. Boddington writes:

For clients on a one-rifle safari in most parts of Africa, Joe feels that "You cannot beat a .375 H&H Magnum. With a scope, it has long-range capablilities and can be used in thick bush with iron sights." He adds, "Once a rifle of suitable caliber is chosen in relation to the game to be hunted, the bottom line to a successful hunt is to be so familiar with it that bringing it to your shoulder and firing it to hit point of aim can be accomplished quickly and effectively. There is only one way to arrive at this type of proficiency, and that is through practice and lots of it. You cannot shortcut shooting practice nor quickly make up for the lack of it, which is the most common mistake made by those who go to hunt in Africa."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Howard:
There have been several comments here, on this thread and others, by people discounting the opinions of PH�s because they having only a passing interest in ballistics, have not shot as many animals as those who have gone before them, their clients have shot more, etc. I totally discount that view of things.

---

Boddington also makes this point. The first two paragraphs of his article say (quotation):

On occasion, you'll encounter an African professional hunter who, as a firearms enthusiast, enjoys experimenting year in and year out with various guns and loads. In that profession, though, such a man is rare. More frequently, a professional hunter has neither the time, budget nor inclination for such experimentation. He'll find what works for him and stick with it.

On the other hand, the professional sees it all in the long procession of clients' rifles that come and go from his camps. He gets to see what works--and what doesn't--to a degree unmatched in the hunting world. In 20 safaris, I have indeed shot and seen shot a great deal of African game, and I've done it and seen it done with a wide variety of rifles, cartridges and bullets. But it would be foolish for me to presume to have the hands-on experience of an African professional hunter.

[This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 01-02-2002).]

I think in the same article CB lists a separate chart for the big bore guns PH's like for the dangerous stuff. This, I thought, was very interesting.

Could you post this for us if you get a chance, maybe under a different topic? I would like to see it again.

Thanks LE270.

------------------
Wendell Reich
Hunter's Quest International

[This message has been edited by Buffalobwana (edited 01-02-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry P:
Bringing two rifles of similar caliber makes much sense, as just bringing one rifle.. in that one rifle could back up the other in a pinch.
(snip)
I think that in Boddington's book he also mentions that taking 2 rifles of the same caliber might not be a bad idea.

---

Yes. In this article Boddington writes, "Three professionals...recommended the .338 in combination with the .375. The utility of this battery eludes me. The two cartridges are superb but are so close in trajectory, energy and penetrating power that I'd prefer two rifles in either chambering to one of each."

Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, one rifle.

Sarge

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oldsarge:
A Class II beats a Class I, period.

---

In what sense of "beats"? Has higher recoil? Kills more dead? Shoots heavier bullets? Has a flatter trajectory? Is more accurate? Is heavier, and thus will make the hunter who carries it more tired more quickly? Stops elephant or buffalo charges more quickly? -- well, probably so, but what if you aren't hunting elephant or buffalo, but instead hunting animals of 500 lb. or less body weight?

I'm not trying to be snotty, but, instead, to suggest that this preference for what you call Class II over Class I cartridges is not obviously supported by good evidence, and that it may, at least in some cases, be positively misplaced.

[This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 01-05-2002).]

One-each P****d off Sarge

[This message has been edited by Oldsarge (edited 01-05-2002).]

You're right; my mistake. I didn't read you carefully enough. You do indeed go on to imply that you prefer a .375.

[This message has been edited by LE270 (edited 01-05-2002).]

I think for any type of shooting a case can be made two riflesin the same caliber or two that are close such as 338 and 375 or 375 and 416.

A friend of mine has a 25/300 Winchester as his main rifles. He has one set up for light ballistic tips and the other with 115 grain Barnes X bullets.

Lots of convenience when rifles are the same caliber.

If you take a 338 and 375 and had the 338 loaded with 200s and the 375 loaded with 300s, there is quite a gap in the performance.

A long way from Africa but the principles are the same is how I use a 375 in Australia.

One is set up with 220 Hornady flat noses loaded to just over 2000 f/s with 39 grains of what would be H4227 Extreme. That is fully equal in convenience for large volume spotlight shooting as any 223 or 308. Yet I have the convenince of all the same gear for reloading etc.

Mike

First of all, what is the 25/300 Winchester? Is that a misprint, or is it a wildcat .25 caliber on the 300 Winchester case? In any event, I am unfamiliar with that caliber.

Now, to the substance of your post: It seems to me that taking a hunting trip with two rifles of the same caliber set up to shoot two very different loads (case A) defeats the point of having two rifles in the same caliber set up the same (case B). In case B, you will have one set of ammunition that is interchangeable between the two rifles. But in case A you'd have to have the ammunition marked and tied to the particular rifle, and you'd therefore always have to worry about whether you had the right ammo to go with the rifle in hand. If your two rifles are in significantly different calibers, then it is -- usually anyway -- easy to tell which ammo goes with which rifle because one set of ammo is significantly different in size from the other.

If you have a .338 and a .375, then you won't have any saving or convenience in having one set of dies, bullets, brass, etc.

If you're going to have two rifles of different calibers, then it seems to me that a .30 caliber or 7mm in combination with the .375 makes more sense because you can load the smaller caliber with 200 or 180 or 160 grain bullets and have something that has a better sectional density than having 200 grain bullets in a .338, and -- depending on the load -- it is likely to kick less.

Actually, the .243 + .375 combination makes a lot of sense to me. You'd have the .375 for everything except deer-sized animals and smaller. For those -- plus if you want to do plinking, varmint shooting, or whatever -- you'd have the pleasant-shooting .243.

25/300 is 300 Winchester necked down to 25. As an aside the subject at hand, a mate of mine has been to Africa 4 times and has shot something over 100 plains animals. He has used 300 Wby with 180 X, 7mm STW with 160 X and 140 Failsafe and 257 Wby with 115 and 90 Barnes X. He has also shot Elk out in Australia in what would be like one of your ranch hunts. His last Zebra was taken with 90 X in the 257.

His general conclusion was the 25 magnum was the best to have. The 25/300 Wins have just been set up instead of 257 Wbys as they offer some advantages.

Personally, I don't like the idea of two rifles of similar caliber and much prefer the same caliber.

In y case I own three 375s. One is setup with the reduced load mentioned which covers spotligthing, plinking or whatever. A second one is setup with 270 Hornady round noses which I use for allshots out here that are not spotlight. The third one I fiddle with different loads and generally waste both time and ammo

One of the rifles is also having a barrel with sights done in 300 H&H, just to have it.

My mate originally, was similar in thinking to you in that he always had is rifles in different calibers. However he has recently changed to the idea of same caliber in different rifles.

The closest I will get to Africa will be camles out here either this year or next. For that I would have a 375 loaded with the 270 Hornady round noses and in the other rifle I would have different bullets for experimenting.

I will probably try 270 Failsafe and 270 Woodleigh so that will allow in conjunction with the Hornady the three basic bullet types available to be compared.

The conclusion I came to years ago (it might not be right ) was that for 95% of the shots fired it would not matter too much whether you had a 300 Win, a 270, a 375 or Ruger Number 1 in 470.

So for me, multiple rifles in the one caliber is the best.

Mike

Of course shooting conditions do vary and alsp there is each to his own.

However, would you agree if aomeone was to post that thee chosen battery for Africa was a 30/06 and a 375, that selection would be deemed appropriate.

For me, I can shoot a 375 and 30/06 the same. There is no advantage for me in a 30/06. If I can shoot bot a 30/06 and 375 the same, waht advantage doesa 30/06 and 375 have over a 375 and a 375.

Now in the case of my own conditions, both a 30/06 and a 375 have too much recoil for several nights spotlighting. So in either case they would have to be loaded down.

Mike