"This rifle is in like new condition as I have not taken it into the field. I will include in the sale the following extras:

40 pieces of once-fired Norma brass

most of a box (of 100) 220gr Hornady FN bullets

half a box (of 50) 235gr Speer Hot-Cor SP bullets

like new (used 40 times) Redding 3-die reloading die set

Burris scope rings, similar to Warnes

I want to keep my Browning scope.

$950.00 invested. Asking $775.00 for all of the above shipped to your FFL. "

please send us details on your make and model of rifle, and pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by Indlovu:
please send us details on your make and model of rifle, and pictures.

It is a CZ-550 Safari. I'm looking to buy it and this guy has this one as described advertised.

Trying to see if it is a good deal.

Yes it's a good deal unless the rifle is a lemon...but frankly these CZs weigh too much for a 375 (almost ten lbs without scope), are too long (looong action and 25" bbl), handle and carry like a club and have really crappy front sights. The only good things they have going for them are positive extraction (which is overrated) and 5 round magazine.

BTW if it's a hogsback, you can add ugly to the list.

So if you buy it, plan to spend another $500 getting it modified.

quote:

BTW if it's a hogsback, you can add ugly to the list.

How do you really feel Russ?

John, I have a 375 with the Hogsback, for me it points very well, and is a dream to shoot. I did glass bed the action which is a little different on the CZ, but it shoots 1" groups.

I would consider it an average deal....

Here is the link and pictures.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php...5/page/1#Post1800165

What .375 would you recommend, then? I always thought the CZs were pretty nice, but apparently the weight and other features appear to be a negative to some people.

The 375 Ruger. This caliber is going to make the ouch & ouch obsolete.

If you must have an ouch & ouch, find a Win 70 Classic; or a Sako if you are not fixated on CRF.

I would have to second the 375 Ruger.

I had one of the CZ's in 375, although a great shooter Russ is spot on.

I had one of those club CZ's in a 416 Rigby redone with the "ugly" hogsback stock which I actually prefer.

I currently have a 9.3x64 Brenneke in the works.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
The 375 Ruger. This caliber is going to make the ouch & ouch obsolete.

If you must have an ouch & ouch, find a Win 70 Classic; or a Sako if you are not fixated on CRF.

Great - now I have another choice - LOL. I'm reading up on the .375 Ruger and wow, it actually looks like it will be better than the H&H, and the rifles chambered for it will be able to be made by a lot more companies, and be less expensive. Will the recoil be less than the H&H as well?

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
The 375 Ruger. This caliber is going to make the ouch & ouch obsolete.

It will give it some stiff competition but I seriously doubt if it will make it obsolete.

you will have to customise the CZ a bit but it is probably one of the most popular makes of guns used by African PH's and the H&H has stood the test of time and definitely will not be going out of fashion in Africa.

buy it buy it buy it you cant go wrong i have one and i wont sell it for 20000 it is heavy but not uncomfortable and weidht absorbs recoil mine shoots a 1moa group at 100m and not one days troubles. i even used it on gemsbuck in the kalahari at 220m its one off the most underrated makes that can take what africa has to offer any given day.


remember h&h ammo is always availeble i have not seen ruger bullets in our gunshops yet.
if i have to borrow a ph gun i will take his 50 year old bruno/cz before any other make even if it is new only my opinion. but 100s of ph and wardens cant be wrong. the proof is in the performance in the field they chamber everytime

If reasonably maintained, a rifle will last several generations, at the very least. These aren't cars or stereo systems. Most of the factory rifles will function, most of the time and under most of the conditions you will encounter. A well built rifle should never fail mechanically under any of the conditions you encounter. It's operation should enhance your safety margin, it should be rock solid and if it is it will greatly increase your confidence in it and in yourself. If you own it for 40 years, the per year price won't be much and if it is a very nice rifle you will be proud to hand it down to someone in the next generation. I think it is an error to try to save a little money upon purchase, and then for generations remind yourself that for a little more you could have had something you never regret having bought. Take your time, look at alot of rifles, shoot as many as you can, and then make a decision. Some guys end up buying 6 or 7 rifles at around $1,000, when one $7,000 rifle may have been a much better choice, as a rifle, as an investment, as an item of superior craftsmanship and pride of ownership.

At least this is what I tell myself. Otherwise I would have a hard time spending that much on a rifle. But someday, when you are way past your hunting prime, and the only images you have of those few times you made it to the hunting fields of Africa, and your trophy photo shows you with a plastic stocked "got a good deal on it" rifle you may regret not having spent just a little bit more.

IF you are a reloader, the inclusion of the rest of the items makes the rifle price, essentially, under $600, which is very fair for a little used CZ.375 . As Wink points out above, there are probably prettier, or higher quality fit and finish rifles available, but nothing at this sort of price.

If you want a .375 I can't imagine why you would consider anything but an H&H! That's what you REALLY want and you'll end up trading for one eventually anyway so go for it.

Recoil? Just borrow someones .458Win Mag for a day and shoot a box of ammo at the bench - THEN shoot the .375. Really has no recoil at all!

Les

Is someone actually complaining about recoil on a .375? My wife shoots .375. Her arms are as big around as a coke can at the shoulder. If you can't shoot a .375 comfortably you may want to re-evaluate your loads or give up on DG hunting.

YOu get with you pay for. There is a reason this rifle is priced below what seems reasonable.

My experience has been that buying used rifles is crap shoot. Why is it being sold? It is not because the rifle is "too accurate". There is always a problem. If you are going to invest in a safari for $10,000 to $50,000, then buy a decent rifle that you know is in good shape and you can have confidence in.

I like the Kimber Caprivi, the Ruger and several of the semi-custom rifles - Hill Country Rifles, HS Precision, Brown Precision. Remington makes a good rifle as well.

Remember, there is always a reason a used rifle is being sold cheap. You get what you pay for.

Don't even get me started on "used" optics. THat is even worse.

You will never regret spending a little more for a top notch rifle. You will always regret paying too little for a problem child rifle.

John, if you search the classifieds youn will see that I have my CZ550 for sale. It may not be as good a deal as the one you are looking at but I can show you test targets that I have shot with mine.
Peter.

The CZ's are fine rifles...I have 2....but the posts concerning the 375 Ruger are spot on....very nice. With ANY of them, however....glass bedding...slicking up the action a bit...and possibly a bit of trigger work may be in order. If it's to be used for DG....then these items are a must.
I have a RSM in 375 H&H that I had bedded, I put a timney trigger on it, and changed the sights more to my liking. It's awesome....and even feeds the NF flat nose bullets as well as anything else.
If this is your first big bore....got look and fondle some before you plunk down your $$$. There are some good buys to be had, but get the one you like the best....a couple of $$ either way won't matter if it's what you really like....and neither will the model of rifle.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

You can buy a new in the box CZ .375 H&H for about $900.

I'd say it's below retail, but in my experience you pay project prices for project guns. Some of them require almost nothing to get right, others can end up being nothing but a few good spare parts. If you really want the rifle buy it. If getting a good deal on it is a major concern for you, you probably don't want the rifle bad enough and are setting yourself up for being disappointed.


Concerning the comments about the 375RUGER obsoleting the 375 H&H, I don't see it, happening anytime soon (if ever). Equaling the factory load performance with reloads in the 375Ruger apparently isn't possible since Hornady is not letting go of the hold on their proprietary powder. That sticks in the craw of the majority of big bore fans who like to reload. If they did let that powder into the market, I think the 375H&H would then beat the Ruger in performance. So where does that put the 375Ruger? The 375H&H isn't going anywhere.

As always, thanks guys. I'm going to hold off for now on the DG rifle until I get some more trigger time and experience with a .30-06 - by then, who knows what will be out there!

John
I suggest that you pick up a copy of "Safari Rifles" by Craig Boddington. It's a very good resource regarding caliber and gun type. It's getting a touch dated, it was written before the super stubbies came out or the 458 Lott or 404 jeffery were a factory offerings for instance, but it is still the best and most comprehensive resource available. You can get it at Amazon or safari press.
AR is a wonderful resource, but questions regarding specific firearms tend to bring out those who love them and those who hate them. Name any particular flavor of firearm, even the Blazer, and you will find those who had one and will never buy another and those who are buying one for each of their grandchildren.
Bottom line, they all work. Most often they will need some trigger work to get the pull to an acceptable level, 2 1/2 to 3 lbs for me. To get the rifle to shoot 1 MOA it may need the barrel bedded, but all but the lemons will shoot minute of impala or eland as they come from the factory. On paper accuracy is certainly desirable but if you can put your rounds into a pie plate at 100 yds the rifle will bring home the bacon, or biltong.
CZ are fine rifles, I prefer winchester Mod 70's, but I snapped up a cz in 404 jeffery when I saw it. Buy the gun that feels right.
In regards to caliber; I would stick to 375 H&H. Ammo availability, proven track record, resale value all stack up on it's side. The H&H is Coca Cola, the Ruger is Faygo Cola. That ain't bad, Faygo is pretty good. In the future it may become RC but I doubt that it offers enough difference to become Pepsi. Meanwhile the H&H will still be Coke. However, if the Ruger floats your boat go for it, I'm sure that it works just fine.
Keep dreaming, keep planning, and remember to share your pictures when you get back.

TerryR

Please, talk talk to me about the 375 Ruger when it's been around as long as the 375 H&H.

I would call it a "good deal" if it included a Burris 1.75-5X LRS. Other wise, not such a good deal. Just my opinion.
Dave

Anyone remember the 300H&H? The 375 H&H is going to end up in the same place. Yes it will take time, but consider the facts.

The Ruger ctg is shorter so it will chamber in a standard length action, more powerful in the same length bbl, has no belt, has the same head size as the ubiquitous magnum actions, and is backed by a major player in the industry. The success of the cartridge will depend on the success of their rifle, to some degree. It's a good rifle at a great price. However, there will be thousands and thousands of standard length "magnum" actions that are going to be converted to 375 Ruger by gunsmiths and tinkerers. Therein lies the genius of this caliber. It puts a DG rifle within easy reach of anyone who has a shot-out 264, 7mm, 300, or 338 Win Mag.

I don't know for sure that the Ruger's ballistic advantage lies solely in the proprietary powder used as stated above. It is inherently a more efficient ctg and will thus produce less recoil at the same mv in a rifle of the same weight. And I think a good reloader could still get it to beat the 375 H&H with the powders that are out there. (I may be wrong since I haven't tried this and there isn't much (if any) published data yet.) And anyone who reloads knows that belts are a giant PITA.

Lots of great calibers have passed on.....look at the calibers the Winchester lever rifles were chambered for. 32-20, 32 Spl, 38/40, 38-55, etc. About the only one that's hanging in there is the 30-30 and it's not on any kind of growth curve.

The 300 H&H Magnum isn't dead yet!

One of my goals is not to have a 375 Ruger. I think the 375 H&H Magnum will be around when I die and I'm quite happy with it.

As for the CZ 550 Safari Magnum, mine in 458 Lott has very nice wood, cost me less than $850 brand new and will put 500 grain Woodleighs into 1.5 inches or less at 100 yards; I really like it.

Hornady's ballistic numbers are quoted for a barrel length that Ruger doesn't even make a rifle for, if i am not mistaken. hard to compare apples to oranges if you can't even buy a gun that matches the ballistic table parameters. people have been preaching a funeral sermon for the 375 H&H for a lot of years( 375then 378 Weatherby, 375 RUM, ETC.) but lo and behold, it's still here and still the easiest cartridge to obtain in africa. i have to guess too that, cost being a factor, it will be stay that way for a LONG time

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Anyone remember the 300H&H? The 375 H&H is going to end up in the same place. Yes it will take time, but consider the facts.

i totaly disagree we hunt live animals and not paper such a effective popular cartridge will not die. ballistic is fine to look at but when it comes to hunting there is thing we still cant explain. if you look at the 9.3x62 and the 7x57 ballistics it doesnt look impressive but these are 2 excelent calibres to hunt with both were nearly extinct but was revived and is more popular than ever. the 375h&H is the same they will never die because they have the x factor.

in a few years from now they will coment that the rugers case is to small and develop a new cal with longer case. and then all they guys will revert back to the h&h. that is why the 458 lott was developed the win mag is good but the case too short for some people.

if the change happens like you say it will take 100years to change it in africa so make sure you dont lose your bullets on the way to africa because you will then hunt with the ph's 375h&h and you will sell your ruger when you get home because you enjoyed the h&H so much.
only my opinion use it dont use it.

BIG GUY
i think you are wrong.....do your research again, the 375 ruger can reach factory ballistics of both 270 gn and 300 gn proj under 65,000 psi
i suggest you read J.B S article on the 375 ruger, and have a look on the GUNBLAST SITE AND www.real guns, there is a wealth of reloading data there
Daniel

All other things being equal, the Ruger will never match the H&H for history and romance. There! I said it. I will admit that those two points are probably #2 and #3 on the list of why we hunt Africa.
Dave

I agree the CZ is a bulky rifle and not to my likeing...

I would opt for a Mauser 98 in .375 H&H, a Win. pre 64 in .375 H&H or the Ruger Safari model in .375 or 416..or the new 375 Ruger is a sweet round for sure, and a nice light rifle. All will make you a great rifle.

Well said, almostacowboy. I like the .300 H&H Magnum, and found that in the Pre'64 Model 70 it is still one of the most accurate rifles that I have shot. The .375 H&H Mag. in the same gun is my lion gun, and soon to be my cape buffalo gun. I have nothing against folks that want to use the new stuff.