With charging for bigger animals. Personally, I would not go there and it would take away from the hunt if you had to make that call.

A well-known PH was hunting a Sitatunga and a monster appeared and in the blind, the operator stated that it would cost more and the PH made the call to shoot and told the operator to fuck off

quote:

With charging for bigger animals. Personally, I would not go there and it would take away from the hunt if you had to make that call.

Right on the money, Andrew. By the way, it's called GREED.

I agree 100%:

Field-judging an animal, then getting out a calculator to figure out what the trophy fee will be, would be quite the turn-off. Doesn't sound like hunting to me.

Guys,

This is creeping into hunting all over. Cape buffalo, Nile crocodile and pronghorn antelope come to mind and of course most Euro hunts are sold that way. They all can be found sold according to size even in a free range situation.

Mark

Andrew:

Thank you for starting this thread. The only way this type of pricing will stop is if hunters refuse to hunt
with the Outfitter. I certainly will not and I do not care if it is "traditional" in that country. It is almost as
bad as tip solicitation.

I have seen hunt(s) advertised recently that charge by the millimeter, on the tusk length of a boar. It seemed to me
that it was a joke or a misprint. I was mistaken.

Imagine, going on your dream hunt and on the last day finding the bull of your dreams, only to have the Operator give you a price breakdown and you find that it is out of your budget. That would be a really fun hunt.

In fairness, I have seen some European hunts on here that have no size limit which would be hunts that I would gladly go on.

Been going on in the States forever with WT deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
Been going on in the States forever with WT deer.

Sure- but mainly on high fence operations.

I thought it was (relatively) common to charge different trophy fees for heavier elephant tusk weight?

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
I thought it was (relatively) common to charge different trophy fees for heavier elephant tusk weight?

When I shot my Bull in Botswana, up to 59.5 was part of the daily rate and no adder. Then, every 5 pounds was 10K or the other way around. It was 2006, so I'm a little fuzzy on the exact deal.

Johan Calitz NG41.

It’s my understanding that Tanzania has a government difference at some point, below is one number, above is another.

Of course, nowdays trophy fees seem to have little to do with government rates- they all seem dramatically higher that the government charge.

Look at it this way.

This is the results of the SCI glorifying trophies, and making worthless idiots look like great hunters.

It involves people on both sides of the fence.

The LOOK AT ME Kardashian sort of worthless hunting bimbo who thinks he is better than everyone else.

And the crooks masquerading as professional hunter who cater for them.

This is one reason I refuse to hunt in Europe and New Zealand.

Price depends on the size.

To me, this ranks right up there with charging non refundable trophy fees in advance.

Those doing it can enjoy their time without me.

I will go and hunt with real professionals who do have a sense of what hunting should be.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Look at it this way.

This is the results of the SCI glorifying trophies, and making worthless idiots look like great hunters.

It involves people on both sides of the fence.

The LOOK AT ME Kardashian sort of worthless hunting bimbo who thinks he is better than everyone else.

And the crooks masquerading as professional hunter who cater for them.

This is one reason I refuse to hunt in Europe and New Zealand.

Price depends on the size.

To me, this ranks right up there with charging non refundable trophy fees in advance.

Those doing it can enjoy their time without me.

I will go and hunt with real professionals who do have a sense of what hunting should be.

I am in New Zealand now; finished a hunt earlier in the week. If you don't want to pay based on size, hunt free range - you can certainly do it.

I couldn't believe the size of the red stag racks at the taxidermist yesterday - all high fenced operations.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
I thought it was (relatively) common to charge different trophy fees for heavier elephant tusk weight?

When I shot my Bull in Botswana, up to 59.5 was part of the daily rate and no adder. Then, every 5 pounds was 10K or the other way around. It was 2006, so I'm a little fuzzy on the exact deal.

Johan Calitz NG41.

Yeah - this is how I remember. There was a threshold then a scale-up.

thx

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
With charging for bigger animals. Personally, I would not go there and it would take away from the hunt if you had to make that call.

A well-known PH was hunting a Sitatunga and a monster appeared and in the blind, the operator stated that it would cost more and the PH made the call to shoot and told the operator to fuck off

I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t have been as polite as the PH in this instance. And I’ll be damned if I’m going to knowingly ever book a hunt with such an operation. There are too many good, ethical hunters to bother with such nonsense from ‘pay by the inch’ people

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Look at it this way.

This is the results of the SCI glorifying trophies, and making worthless idiots look like great hunters.

It involves people on both sides of the fence.

The LOOK AT ME Kardashian sort of worthless hunting bimbo who thinks he is better than everyone else.

And the crooks masquerading as professional hunter who cater for them.

This is one reason I refuse to hunt in Europe and New Zealand.

Price depends on the size.

To me, this ranks right up there with charging non refundable trophy fees in advance.

Those doing it can enjoy their time without me.

I will go and hunt with real professionals who do have a sense of what hunting should be.

I am in New Zealand now; finished a hunt earlier in the week. If you don't want to pay based on size, hunt free range - you can certainly do it.

I couldn't believe the size of the red stag racks at the taxidermist yesterday - all high fenced operations.

That is precisely what I did in Argentina. I hunted free-range, wild red stags for agreed upon fixed trophy fees and shot two nice stags, one a 13 pointer and the other a 10 pointer.

Normal-looking, free-range and fair-chase-hunted red stags, not the freaks shot behind fences and paid for by the inch.

I am not interested in such freakish man-made animals.

But the point is, I had a choice.

It is also common in Europe to pay more for bigger CIC-measured animals, even in the case of free-range and fair-chase hunting of truly wild animals.

I am fine with that, as long as it is made clear from the start.

In my case, I simply assume that I will have a chance at a big one, and I build that into the budget.

But, again, that approach gives a man a choice.

I sure as hell would not be happy if the premium was sprung on me after the fact, and while sitting in a blind with a big one in my sights, no less!

Bravo to the PH in this case!

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
I thought it was (relatively) common to charge different trophy fees for heavier elephant tusk weight?

If memory serves me right the additional charge per pound for ivory that exceeded an established minimum weight and increased every 10/15lbs thereafter was a royalty levied by the authorities (colonial) as ivory was a commercial commodity back in those days.

If my recollections are still lucid, up to 30lbs was was the minimum non taxable weight then the royalty was applied to 31/45, 46/60 and 61+ and anything under 11lbs was confiscated with a rap on the knuckles.

Most Euro hunts are sold that way but not all. All my trophy fees offered in England, Ireland and Scotland are charged at one rate depending on the species. The only exception is in Scotland where Royal and Imperial stags do have a higher trophy fee but clients are always told up front what this is so no surprises.

Hunting is a chance sport.

It could even end in your death.

We all accept that.

But once they try to make it into a competition, it is not for me.

.

Most trophy hunts in Germany are on weight or length. Typically driven hunts are one price for the day and shoot away.

Know a story of a hunter who was on a weekend roebuck hunt - set price all in - where he could shoot wild boar to 50 kg dressed weight for free and anything over 50 kgs would be charged at EUR 500,- flat.

He shot a Keiler / boar and when it was on the scales the magic number was 51 kgs! That 1 kg cost him EUR 500,- ! Not a happy hunter after that.

I have found that most experienced guides can call the length or weight to plus minus 10 % and that is fine by me. Hunt with experienced guides and all is good!

.

Never booked a pay by the inch or weight hunt. I've hunted Africa 14 times but never hunted Europe due to their sliding fee trophy hunts. I agree with Saeed.

1. Know the deal up front.
2. Toss the operator out of the machan in this case. Listen to the PH.

Angus Murray found out the hard way and his world records were re-measured and found to be lacking

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Angus Murray found out the hard way and his world records were re-measured and found to be lacking

They should examine every trophy taken by clients guided by Jason Stone!

He was Angus Murray’s go to crooked ph providing captured and transported animals!

All to satisfy the sick ambitions of the Kardashians of the hunting world!

Of course, SCI was very happy to encourage them!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Angus Murray found out the hard way and his world records were re-measured and found to be lacking

They should examine every trophy taken by clients guided by Jason Stone!

He was Angus Murray’s go to crooked ph providing captured and transported animals!

All to satisfy the sick ambitions of the Kardashians of the hunting world!

Of course, SCI was very happy to encourage them!

I just saw a picture of a 50 plus inch buff today. Guess who the PH was?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Angus Murray found out the hard way and his world records were re-measured and found to be lacking

They should examine every trophy taken by clients guided by Jason Stone!

He was Angus Murray’s go to crooked ph providing captured and transported animals!

All to satisfy the sick ambitions of the Kardashians of the hunting world!

Of course, SCI was very happy to encourage them!

I just saw a picture of a 50 plus inch buff today. Guess who the PH was?

MS?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Angus Murray found out the hard way and his world records were re-measured and found to be lacking

They should examine every trophy taken by clients guided by Jason Stone!

He was Angus Murray’s go to crooked ph providing captured and transported animals!

All to satisfy the sick ambitions of the Kardashians of the hunting world!

Of course, SCI was very happy to encourage them!

I just saw a picture of a 50 plus inch buff today. Guess who the PH was?

Had Jason removed the ear tag??

It is just a matter of time that everyone trys and follow was has been happening SA for years. Sooner or later I hope people will stop paying for a certain size and the market goes back to taking the best you can find at pricelist price by animal not size of animal.

Prices is Sa have come down but a few still and screw people by the bs by the inch. The landowners do it to the outfitters and if they so no another will just take the place. It is a shame but greed is a big part of it all.

South Africa provides one of the best plains game hunting anywhere.

And thousands of hunters enjoy that every year.

We shouldn't penalize them for the actions of the crooked idiots on both sides of the fence.

Look at it this way.

The horrible industry part that sprang up to provide SCI certified trophies on demand, was created by SCI.

An organization that seems to glorify hunting as a competition.

For years and years, we keep hearing "new management" has the hunters interests at heart, and will sort its policies.

Never happened.

And I doubt that it will ever change.

The 21st century you gotta love it — not!

Humanity went beyond where it was meant to be beginning in the 1960s.

All the freedoms gained then are being eroded!

Thanks to political correctness!

100%

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Angus Murray found out the hard way and his world records were re-measured and found to be lacking

They should examine every trophy taken by clients guided by Jason Stone!

He was Angus Murray’s go to crooked ph providing captured and transported animals!

All to satisfy the sick ambitions of the Kardashians of the hunting world!

Of course, SCI was very happy to encourage them!

I just saw a picture of a 50 plus inch buff today. Guess who the PH was?

Had Jason removed the ear tag??

Only pictures I’ve seen of this supposed 50” buffalo were taken from behind. No front view pictures. I doubt the buffalo, while a nice one, is actually 50” or even close to 50.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Angus Murray found out the hard way and his world records were re-measured and found to be lacking

They should examine every trophy taken by clients guided by Jason Stone!

He was Angus Murray’s go to crooked ph providing captured and transported animals!

All to satisfy the sick ambitions of the Kardashians of the hunting world!

Of course, SCI was very happy to encourage them!

I just saw a picture of a 50 plus inch buff today. Guess who the PH was?

Had Jason removed the ear tag??

Only pictures I’ve seen of this supposed 50” buffalo were taken from behind. No front view pictures. I doubt the buffalo, while a nice one, is actually 50” or even close to 50.

Who cares?

Angus paid $100,000 for it.

Jason is well known as a bloody crook, to the extent that Angus took him to court!

Bloody hell, two pease from the same pod come to mind!

Talk about worthless idiot masquerading as hunter and professional hunter!

I understand that Angus is no longer hunting.

Apparently he had a bit of a problem with his better half.

Jason, on the other hand is still in business, probably doing what he does best, for the SCI hunting Bimbos!

personally I would say Jason is a good PH but went the money route

Jason is as crooked as they come.

One of the biggest providers of very, very shady trophies to order for the sick members of our community!

Of course, SCI was very happy of all this, and conveniently turned a blind eye to everything!

If SCI management had an iota of decency, they would look at every trophy he has sold to his self obsessed Bimbo hunters!

There are too many outfitters out there who will lie in a wide variety of ways for the sake of money.

The honest ones outnumber them, but still a hunter must be careful, unless, of course, as some apparently do, he is paying them to lie.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
There are too many outfitters out there who will lie in a wide variety of ways for the sake of money.

The honest ones outnumber them, but still a hunter must be careful, unless, of course, as some apparently do, he is paying them to lie.

Thanks to this forum, many shady operators have had their veil pulled off. At the same time, client hunters as well.

The subscription based ‘Hunting Report’ is now gone, I believe. AR stands as the best, most honest forum for due diligence on the planet.

Thanks to Saeed.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
There are too many outfitters out there who will lie in a wide variety of ways for the sake of money.

The honest ones outnumber them, but still a hunter must be careful, unless, of course, as some apparently do, he is paying them to lie.

Thanks to this forum, many shady operators have had their veil pulled off. At the same time, client hunters as well.

The subscription based ‘Hunting Report’ is now gone, I believe. AR stands as the best, most honest forum for due diligence on the planet.

Thanks to Saeed.

Agreed!

It's all about means and methods, my friends.

That's what measures the difference between what's truth and what's bullshit.