I'm planning to book a Plains Game hunt for 2007. I read this hunt report on another web-site an I was wondering if this is a accurate comparison. Anyone else who has hunted both countries please give me your opinion.
Thanks

I just got back from my African dream safari. We booked one week in South Africa (Limpopo) and then on a whim (and because we got a heck of an Ebay deal) added in 4 days in Namibia (it borders S. Africa on the NW). These two safaris were far and away different. And to me, Namibia is the only way to go.

The differences were:

To be a guide in Namibia there is a grueling training program that only like 15% of people pass. In S. Africa, I could be a guide next week.

The trackers that we had in Namibia were little Kalahari bush-type people (have you seen The Gods Must be Crazy?). In S. Africa we just had some guys who've hunted a bit. The Namibian trackers could spot animals miles (literally) away without binoculars and track an animal across dry-ground amongst many other animals while the S. African tracker was about as competent as I am at tracking.

The animals in Namibia are for the most part free-ranging. We hunted a 17,000 acre ranch that had low fences (1 meter cattle fences). Also, we had the opportunity (but not the time) to hunt in wide-open public land in either the mountains (for Mountain Zebra) or in the Kalahari desert (for trophy oryx/gemsbok). In S. Africa we hunted a high-fence (3 meter electrified) ranch. There were feeders where they fed alfalfa!

The terrain in Namibia ranged from wooded hills to grassy steppe with wide-open spaces. If you looked hard enough you should be able to see some type of animal from any rise you were on. In S. Africa we hunted a flat, featureless landscape that had so much brush (thorny like Texas) that you couldn't see 20 feet unless the animal was on the road (which they often were).

In Namibia we were encouraged to HUNT. In S. Africa we were encouraged to shoot animals from the vehicle.

When trying to import guns, we breezed through the Namibian check with a polite, affable gentleman. In S. Africa we were treated rudely and not allowed to bring in my rifle which was temporarily confiscated. We both brought .338 win mag and put the both in my name in the US to faciliatate things (we thought), but they won't let one person bring in 2 guns of the same caliber. In Namibia you can even sell your gun or use it for a tip if you wanted. No way that you can get away with that in S. Africa. (As an aside, I was told by the millionaire landowner where we hunted that they can only have up to 3 guns and have 200 rounds of ammunition - total in posession.

We were told again and again in S. Africa "it is not safe to go there", while in Namibia we went everywhere and were treated equally well by everyone. Also, their national language is English so everyone speaks perfect English and all signs are in English.

All in all, the Namibia hunt was fantastic. I just couldn't ask for more. There may be better places in S. Africa, but from what I've been able to gather, Namibia has it beat.

I hope this will help someone out and I don't mean to start any arguments or anything. If I can help point someone in the right direction as far as logistics and where to go and with whom, let me know.

Without commenting on any particular operator, in general Namibian PG hunts are of higher quality than RSA PG hunts. In part that is because in RSA there are more professional hunters than there are acres of land, and unfortunately quite a few game ranches are not sufficiently large to present a genuine hunting experience.

Of course the actual quality of your trip will depend more on the outfitter that you choose than on whether the hunt is in RSA or Namib.

Dr B your experience with Namibia mirrored mine. I booked and hunted with Vaughan Fulton-Classic Safari's and had a great hunt. I am going back-that says it all!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
To be a guide in Namibia there is a grueling training program that only like 15% of people pass. In S. Africa, I could be a guide next week.
...
The animals in Namibia are for the most part free-ranging. We hunted a 17,000 acre ranch that had low fences (1 meter cattle fences). Also, we had the opportunity (but not the time) to hunt in wide-open public land in either the mountains (for Mountain Zebra) or in the Kalahari desert (for trophy oryx/gemsbok). In S. Africa we hunted a high-fence (3 meter electrified) ranch. There were feeders where they fed alfalfa!
....
When trying to import guns, we breezed through the Namibian check with a polite, affable gentleman. In S. Africa we were treated rudely and not allowed to bring in my rifle which was temporarily confiscated. We both brought .338 win mag and put the both in my name in the US to faciliatate things (we thought), but they won't let one person bring in 2 guns of the same caliber. In Namibia you can even sell your gun or use it for a tip if you wanted. No way that you can get away with that in S. Africa. (As an aside, I was told by the millionaire landowner where we hunted that they can only have up to 3 guns and have 200 rounds of ammunition - total in posession.

I can't really comment on how extensive the training programs for PHs are in SA, but Namibia has continued the German tradition for very high standards of education in the hunting area.

You can also find game fenced properties in Namibia. Game fencing up there and how visible it is really depends on the species you want to fence in. E.g. eland requires higher fencing than does gemsbok and springbok. In general, properties in South Africa are probably smaller than Namibian farms, thus making game fencing more obvious.

There sure is a difference between importing guns into Namibia (easy) and South Africa (pain in the posterior).

Both destinations can be good. Nambia has more of the dry land species (kudu, hartebeast, springbok, gemsbok), whereas South Africa probably has a greater variety. In particular places like the Limpopo and Natal provinces, which have species not found in Namibia - such as Nyala. It really depends on what you want.

- mike

I believe it all really depends on who you book with and who the PH is. You can get good or bad in both places and that will really tell the tale of a good or bad trip in most instances. The fening issue is a factor also, as Most of Nambia is unfenced or low fenced where the majority of SA is high fenced and some ranches are small but many are very large and you may never even see the fencing. So, best advice is know who and where you will be hunting and that will tell the tale.

Having chosen Namibia over SA myself, I'd say the report is unfair to SA. I doubt the author of the report did much serious thinking or research before booking. If you don't like fences and shooting from a vehicle, do your research and go someplace were you won't do either. For me it was Namibia, but I could have gotten the same quality of hunt in RSA. No problem finding a place in Namibia to shoot from a truck in a small enclosure either. The author got lucky once and unlucky once. If he'd done his part before booking, he'd have gotten what he wanted twice, regardless of the country.

Dean

P.S. Man I can be testy on Mondays!

With whom one hunts plays a great part in the quality. I have hunted RSA 3 times and Namabia 2. I am planning on hunting Zim and RSA next year. I am returning to RSA because of the animials I want to hunt. Namabia offers much less choice as to animials. If it is your first hunt for a general bag of plains game I think you will take trophies of equal quality in Namabia and at a lesser cost. I got good trophies in Namabia but would not hunt with the outfitter (first one) again. The second one I would if I wanted to hunt the Capriva strip.

quote:

Originally posted by maki:
Having chosen Namibia over SA myself, I'd say the report is unfair to SA. I doubt the author of the report did much serious thinking or research before booking. If you don't like fences and shooting from a vehicle, do your research and go someplace were you won't do either. For me it was Namibia, but I could have gotten the same quality of hunt in RSA. No problem finding a place in Namibia to shoot from a truck in a small enclosure either. The author got lucky once and unlucky once. If he'd done his part before booking, he'd have gotten what he wanted twice, regardless of the country.

Dean

P.S. Man I can be testy on Mondays!

good advice IMO!

DrB. Sounds like you ahd a great safari. I can only tell you this. I have hunted both areas. Needless to say, NAMIBIA is unlike any place on earth. I would choose the Namibia safari over RSA anyday. I have hunted namibia from North south east and west 5 times and it always produces top game. The head of nature conservation was one of our PH's in namibia last time and he was a real treat to be with. His name is Martin Brits. It was a pleasure to learn how different the PH's are graded in Namibia and RSA. For instance, if I remember correctly, in Namibia, you have to be able to tell the length of a kudubull at 100 yards without a scope or binocs and be within 1 inch. That was one of the field tests.

I agrre that it all depends on the game and your PH or outfitter. There are some great places in RSA, but I choose Namibia.

13 days until the selous!!

quote:

Originally posted by KUDUBULL:
For instance, if I remember correctly, in Namibia, you have to be able to tell the length of a kudubull at 100 yards without a scope or binocs and be within 1 inch. That was one of the field tests.

Sounds a little extreme to me....your Namibia PH tell you this? How do they do this portion of the test?
No doubt that it is not very difficult to get a PH license in SA....but there are still some very qualified PH's out there. Do your homework and you should be fine.

OK, now through Zim into the mix? What are the diffrences?

This is like comparing Ford to Chevy. You have to get down to the individual models. Or destinations in this case.


I will say RSA is much more diverse in terms of terrain and species. Zululand is very different than Limpopo drainage which is much different than E Cape etc etc. They call it a world in one country, for a reason.

Namibia is mostly Kalahari or Namib dune desert. The Caprivi is the jewel, there you find water, which means buffalo etc.

Zimbabwe is also diverse but you have to add the Bob factor. Most of the ranch hunting is gone, or gone bad, except for one or two conservancies (and we represent one of them, Bubiana, it's as good as it ever was). The DG hunting is fine and inexpensive. The main reason to go to Zim is elephant.

Mozambique is about the same money as Zim now for DG, huge concessions, wild, and good for DG. Plains game is much more expensive than the neighboring countries, except Sable which is about the same as Zim and much cheaper than RSA. The bargain in Zim is Lion, but not plentiful (no place is teeming with lions any more).

Russ, what's it like in the lowvelt, around Matopo Hills/Park???

Interesting area, geology and history. I really don't know the current situation regarding hunting. Suspect it's degraded like a lot of Zim. And you would have to be very specific as you find islands of unmolested land (such as Bubiana) among areas that have been poached out or hunted hard by get rich quick people. Suggest you PM ganyana.

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:

quote:

Originally posted by KUDUBULL:
For instance, if I remember correctly, in Namibia, you have to be able to tell the length of a kudubull at 100 yards without a scope or binocs and be within 1 inch. That was one of the field tests.

Sounds a little extreme to me....your Namibia PH tell you this? How do they do this portion of the test?
No doubt that it is not very difficult to get a PH license in SA....but there are still some very qualified PH's out there. Do your homework and you should be fine.

Roscoe, yep. That is part of the field test in namibia. I thought it was pretty extreme as well because every kudu I saw on my first trip, I thought was around 53" when in fact it was around 48" with just long curls, but not very thick. And i will tell you out of the 7 kudu bulls we have taken over the last 5 years. The PH was very accurate to the size before we shot. I know I couldn't do it.

Sounds like this fella is comparing a small, bush encroached, lowveld gamefarm with a huge namibian ranch with good operators.

Surely if you want a greater variety of species there is no competition between the two countries?
Anyway, it is good that there is healthy competition as I cannot imagine what prices would be if RSA became the last viable plains game hunt for regular guys.

The person who wrote the report had a unfortunate experience in RSA. The fact that he could not bring in 2 rifles of the same caliber, was his outfitters mistake, or they just did not communicate enough.

Last year I hunted in Namibia and the farm manager expected me to shoot from the truck, the reason was that it was time consuming to hunt on foot. I did not give in and hunted on foot.

It does not matter where you go there might be a bad experience in the pipeline. Most bad experiences can be prevented if there is enough communication between the client and the outfitter/ph

It is easy to say that the ph courses in RSA is easy, I beg to differ. I do not try to say it is very difficult, but a lot of trainees does not make it. Most of the avarage hunters I know won't be able to pass it. Ph school in RSA is a finishing school, you must have a proper knowledge of the bush, tracks, animals and trophy size. It will be impossible for a novice to learn all of this in 2 weeks.

Judging trophy size at a 100yrds without bino's is like a bow hunter who refuses to use a range finder. Why increase the possible margin of error if you can use technology to make a better evaluation. In Namibia there are also different qualifications, something like a field guide I & II and then a ph. Depending on your qualification you can accompany clients to do certain hunts. I do not have all the info, but know just some of the basics.

My best advise to hunters is to ckeck, check and check again with the person you will hunt with. The more you discuss matters the better picture you will have of what is coming

Well that's my penny's worth

Maki wrote:

'Having chosen Namibia over SA myself, I'd say the report is unfair to SA. I doubt the author of the report did much serious thinking or research before booking. If you don't like fences and shooting from a vehicle, do your research and go someplace were you won't do either. For me it was Namibia, but I could have gotten the same quality of hunt in RSA. No problem finding a place in Namibia to shoot from a truck in a small enclosure either. The author got lucky once and unlucky once. If he'd done his part before booking, he'd have gotten what he wanted twice, regardless of the country.

Dean"

I aggree with this, Jaco and others....Dr. B has tarred all of SA with the same brush, and incorrectly so. The hunt you had in Namibia can also be had in SA quite easily, just as easily as you can pick up a different 'style' of hunt anywhere as well.

Yes, you can become a PH in 10 days; will you be a good one who will last in the industry and get good references without experience..unlikely.

I feel there is a reason many 'PH's' just tell clients to shoot off the vehicle....its because many are happy to do so and don't protest!!! Its the same reason many shoot canned lions...the client demand is there. There certainly are many SA operators who walk and stalk. When you book a trip, in the first email you must state that you do not like to shoot off vehicles...then this clear from the get-go...simple. YOU need to be involved with these flexible rules on a trip and make this clear before you put the money down!

Some clients love the vehicles, other hate it, same with PH's. If you book , get a reference and ask these questions from past clients, its all very easy and common sense to me!

"Hi, did PH Frik stalk the game of foot or just diesel stalk?" yes or no?
"Was Frik's property large or a dinky 500 acres?" yes or no?
"What is his policy on other hunters in camp/area?"
etc etc
To me, these seem like absolute baseline questions when booking a hunt

quote:

I'm planning to book a Plains Game hunt for 2007. I read this hunt report on another web-site an I was wondering if this is a accurate comparison. Anyone else who has hunted both countries please give me your opinion.
Thanks

Kayker
If you read the post you coment as careful as you want others to be you wouldn't make ignorant statements about me Tarring all of SA with the same brush.
I sugest you be carful when you crtize AR members.

Dr B

Glad you pointed that out DrB. Thought, I was the only 1 that caught the you were not the author of the comparison, just quoting it.
Apparently several others missed it as well.

This is rediculous! Except for the totally uninformed or terminally niave this is a non-issue. Simply put, you get what you buy! IF you want a wilderness hunt by all means book one. There are plenty of outfitters available but you're not going to get a tarzan movie experience for $4,000! I love my farm hunts in S.A. However I know what to expect and what I'll get for my money. I compare it to most commercial BG hunts in the states where you're hunting a similar sized property (or smaller) for about the same money for far fewer animals (shot OR seen) and with (usually) much worse accomdations. Simply put - there is no comparison between these "comparable" hunts! Are there unscrupulous operations? Sure - everywhere. Someone else said it - make sure your wishes are known from the begining. Make sure you know what's being offered, then go have a great time with some of the best people on earth! I hate it when people expect someone to read their mind, then blame them for a bad experience when they don't.

P.S. - BTW, yes I know this was some else's "report" but it's simply misleading coming from someone with admittedly very limited experience. Makes all South Africans look bad to many people reading it.

I am still curious about the Namabian PH test re the lenght of Kudu horns. How do they verify the student's estimation of the horn lenght? Do they shoot every Kudu that the applicant estimates to measure or do they dart them or capture them tranqulize them for measurement. Just doesn't add.