I recently showed up in Jo'burg with clients and was met by Optima, just like I have been several times in the past. The girl who met us had problems and took a long time getting us thru passport control, then even longer thru the gun line. There were 20 people in line, and 9 of them, without handlers, got thru before us. The paperwork was 110% in order, all copies were made ahead of time, "t's" crossed and "i's" dotted (I pride myself on sending clients with all paperwork in order). For all of that, she then charged us $60 US per person, instead of the $35 I have been charged every other time.

I am extremely dissatisfied!

Can anyone tell me what Air 2000 charges for the same service (no advance permits, just escort thru)? Also, does anyone know if Johan is still in the biz, maybe on his own or working for another expediting company?

quote:

and was met by Optima

At least you were met! I booked with Optima this past June/July, after several e-mails back and forth with Johan, yet no one was waiting when I arrived in J.burg on the way down, and not on the way home either... They had a copy of my flightplan etc, so it wasn't exactly rocketscience for them to be on time at the gate. Everything went well for me anyway, but I was pretty pissed off. At least I didn't pay beforehand for this "non-service".

And will obviously not trust them enough to use them again.

quote:

Originally posted by hhmag:
There were 20 people in line, and 9 of them, without handlers, got thru before us.

Life is tough when one can't bribe oneself to the front of the queue.

Not the point, we were front of que, nine people not using any service got thru ahead of us. Our handler did nothing to find out why people who were reviewed after us got thier permits before us. Luckily this time we didn't have a connecting flight to catch, as is normally the case with us when hunting in Natal or other outlying areas.

Excuse me if this sounds direct, but what the hell are you paying for that kind of service, when you could do it yourself for under $20?

Since you obviously know what you are doing for the paperwork, why not just go through the "routine", have your clients pay about $20 in "tips" and be done with it? Both of my experiences took no longer than 10 min. and I never had to lift a bag the whole time. My buddy even brought in too much .375 H&H ammo (not weighed by the airline), which only cost him another "tip".

My first time to RSA was a breeze with a few "American" dollars in small denominations handed out at the appropriate times (hell, they'll even tell you when to do it).

So, while I understand the POTENTIAL value of this type of service, I challenge its usefullness especially based on the type of service that you received.

End of rant

I know that using such services is good for some and objectionable to by others. To each his own. I have done it both ways over the years and prefer to use a service after 19 hours on the plane. I used them in June of this year and was very satisfied and it made a big difference in getting in and out. The cost was $45 per person. I was also told that if I was not satisfied that I should let them know then and there. That's what you need to do now is contact them and explain your dissatisfaction and why. That's what I would do.

I'm surprised. I used Optima a 2 months ago. This lady met me at the gate and took me to the police station. I never had to left a bag. She also got me through the police station at Jo berg in 15 minutes. I wouldn't think of not using them if I every go through SA to Zim again.

We werer stood up by Optima in late July. When contacted, they were lame. Check on past treads; a key man has left and started his own thing. Have heard good things about "2000".

The last time, August 2005, I went through Jo'burg and completed the paperwork myself with help from this board and my ph to understand what was needed. I then went through the line collected my permit. I believe the value of this service to save no more then one hour (probably less) is low.

I had all my paperwork in order and went through, as did my hunting partner without delay. Yes the SAP are slow and not an efficient bunch, but we got through without the horror stories that we were lead to beleive would occur without "pros" on the other end.

BigBullet

I've used them several times in the past, for many of my clients and myself. They had charged me and my clients $35 per person until two weeks ago, and now it's $60 with no warning about a cost increase and service that was severely lacking. They will simply not get any more buisness from me. It's that easy-nobody gets the chance to fuck me twice. Now that I am moving on, I'm just looking for info on Air2000 or on Johan, now that he has moved on from Optima. I personally don't care one way or the other, but I am expected to give my clients the most bang for thier buck, and I look foolish promising service that is not given for a fee that is nearly twice what I was quoted!

As for tipping the cops, you guys are part of the reason it's such a pain in the ass to get thru. The more you tip, the more it is expected, and the more it's expected the slower the line gets. I like using the services because it makes my clients feel like vip's. It makes the trip a bit more special, especially when I cater to guys that are generally not Texas millionaires. When Joe average hunter is treated right, it makes Rob average outfitter look that much better. When Joe average hunter is treated the same as every other schmuck, it lessens the experience. One goes on safari for the experience-the total experience-of feeling just a bit different than your peers, knowing you did something they only dream of. When I get a guy and his wife blowing their life savings in one shot to do something they may never get to do again in their lives, I want to make sure the total experience is special. While there is nothing I can do about the 18 hour flight or the insultingly inedible airline food served after paying more for a ticket than I did on my first car, but damn it, when they get off that plane, I want them to feel important and special. I've seen Air2000 at work and like the way they operate, but used Optima on suggestion of someone here. Hey, I gave them good buisness, and now they come up lacking. That's the way the service industry goes.

Throwing around $20.00 is way too much money and at no time should you tip the police. $5.00 or better yet $1.00 is more than enough in most instances.

People tipping high amounts could be causing some of the problems. Pretty soon places in line will be based on how much you tip.

I used Optima coordinated through Gracy Travel and the agreed upon price was 60/ hunter and 45 for non-hunters. Worked as advertised for me although I was in transit to Zim. jorge

.

Alf, you and HHmag are absolutely correct, but in reality it is impossible to coordinate ALL hunters in unison to stop doing that. If you stop and think, here you are in africa on a multi-thousand dollar safari, you're exausted after flying in that POS Airbus and now you are faced with hours in line when a mere pitance of 20 bucks will get you throuhg? I'm sorry I just don't have that kind of discipline. In principle you are absolutely right but reality, well it's what we have to deal with. jorge

My friend returning from Tanzania to Jo'berg. He was supposed to have been met by Optima, but they never showed.

The value of these services depends on how many schmucks with the incorrect or no paperwork are waiting in line in front of you...When i pitched up at joburg earlier this year it was chaos in the line infront of the SAPS office.

Part of that was probably down to not enough or poor quality staff, but a considerable part of the problem was also down to hunters turning up with incorrect paperwork.

Although the most visible part of the service you get from Air2000 or who ever is the "Meet and Greet" remember that perhaps the more imprtant part is that they have already sorted your permit out ahead of time...At the SAPS office, there should be no chance of incorrect paperwork or additional form filling and no nasty surprises as its all been done beforehand.

I remember one guy really pissed off because he did not have a "letter of motivation" for the SAPS..I have no idea how long he had been queuing but there was a lot of folks waiting, but he was hustled from the office back out into the crowd to write one on the spot..Last I heard was him going on about this would never happen in America and the SAPS woman being completely unimpressed and unmoved by his outburst!

Before I went, I felt a bit like Alf in that on principle i felt you shouldn't need to pay for a service like this..but after seeing the reality, I am certainly glad i did...

Regards,

Pete

I was told Optima was tits up an to use Air2000 in the future so I will.
I travel often with my employment an let me tell you they book us economy these days...nothing like getting a meet/greet service VIP treatment once your feet are off the ramps. Ushered to a lounge, bags collected and loaded onto the next flight with new claims checks does as HH Mag said make one feel like...well like a VIP.
As far as dealing with RSA police at the airport I suggest take up bow hunting no permits needed or skip RSA an connect in Jo'burg to Namibia where the officals still are resonable for the time being.

I don't understand why you guys use these "services"... are ya scared?

I guess since I have to deal with government BS day in and day out I was prepared for it, I don't know...

Maybe I was lucky? I thought that they directions that the SAPS had on their web page Were more than easy to understand, and the helpful informantion that I got here was great,

When it was my turn I stepped up and went right through like I knew what I was doing...

Other than being "told" by the porter that I needed to tip him on the way back to the check in line while he was packing my rifle case, everything went smoothly.

Just to enlighten the masses //

Humans are like sheep, we dont listen to advice when it is given and we often dont use our brains a lot when making decisions .. Now that I have got that off my chest here are some facts, good or bad depending upon your preferance ..

1) We will never get humans to all fill in the paper work correctly all the time

2) WE all know it is wrong to pay a bribe BUT we are mostly clever enough to know that if it works and it is not illegal to provide a sweetner then who cares about the MORAL side of things ..

3) IN Africa ( us poor infidels ) all know that a BRIBE is entrenched in the WAY of life so for those thinking about eliminating it from daily life you have a better chance defeating terrorism than stopping (sweetners or bribes)

4) The (Meet and Greet Companies) are ALSO NOT FOOLS, they have switched onto the fact that the SAP service at JIA is at times less than perfect, albeit not always SAP'S own fault, and hence these Companies are JUST cashing in commercially on a flaw in the red tape beauracratic system, of cource they are also Human and not perfect BUT all my personal clients whom have used them are more than happy ...

In this world we rise and fall by our judgements, and if some say I will be a DIY then good luck and good wishes to them, I personally still prefer to use the M & G people as the percentages are still vastly in their favour for success ///

If we use your head and weigh up the 50 or 60 bucks payment to a M & G crowd against say a missed flight and possible extra overnight accommodation then it does not take a rocket scientist to work out what is best route to take

WE all know the problems at JIA are multi faceted in that sometimes there are toooooo many hunters with guns on the SAA planes in peak season for SAP to handle with haste, especially as many hunters DONT complete their paper work 100% to regulations ///

Good luck and good hunting, and if you dont believe in bribes then best to keep taking the tablets as you will need them often when travelling in Africa un-assisted (-:

Peter

Guys,

I use Air 2000 and recommend them to everybody. My feedback is very positive. I think having someone assist you through the whole process at JIA including securing your guns and luggage is well worth the fee.

I read in the Hunting Report that the real brainsbehind Optima was starting his own business. Perhaps they now have no one really at the helm.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by TNJohn:
Throwing around $20.00 is way too much money and at no time should you tip the police. $5.00 or better yet $1.00 is more than enough in most instances.

I should have been more clear. I said $20 in "tips"- tips is plural. Small denominations, $2-3 for bags, $5 for line ups, $5-10 for guns, whatever. Bottom line, no one should be throwing around $20 at a time but used wisely, it will get you through quick and hassel free.

jorge is right, reality is what we have to deal with, and $20 is a drop in the bucket.

I've asked this 3 or 4 times before and never got a good answer.
1. If I hire a Meet & Greet Co. do I get to go to the head of the line?
2. Do they have 2 lines, one for Meet & Greet and one for normal folks? When I was there in 2003, there was only one line.
3. If my papers are in order, why do I need a M & G? (Unless they bribe their way to the front of the line)
4. Where I'm from, if you bust the line, at a minimum you will get a good ass eatin.
VIP my butt, you pay $30 bucks and that makes you feel like a VIP?

I don't mind paying for a "meet and greet" as long as I get my money's worth. If it gets me in/out of the Jo'Burg Airport with minimal hassle, then it is money well spent.

That said, I only had one dealing with Optima in November 2004 arranged through the travel agent. A member of our group is confined to a wheelchair. Getting his wheelchair transfered to our flight to Namibia was a concern that we specifically addressed with Optima. We were assured that the matter was tended to, witnessed by one of the Optima employees. When we arrived in Windhoek the wheelchair was not on the flight. We had to borrow a wheelchair and the next day the PH had to dispatch somebody to make a 300 mile round-trip to get it.

Louis Bekker of Afton House has been the best such meet and greet I've dealt with. Staying at the Afton House is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by TJ:
I've asked this 3 or 4 times before and never got a good answer.
1. If I hire a Meet & Greet Co. do I get to go to the head of the line?
2. Do they have 2 lines, one for Meet & Greet and one for normal folks? When I was there in 2003, there was only one line.
3. If my papers are in order, why do I need a M & G? (Unless they bribe their way to the front of the line)
4. Where I'm from, if you bust the line, at a minimum you will get a good ass eatin.
VIP my butt, you pay $30 bucks and that makes you feel like a VIP?

TJ

All your questions are valid but basically irrelavent IMHO as there will always be exceptions to the rule on the day ... BUT anyhow here goes my brief answers

1) You get (preferential treatment) BUT whether it pushes you to the top of line up can vary on the day and circumstances prevailing at the time

2) Generally it is one or more lines BUT I dont believe the lines are based upon any different criteria, therin lies the main problem with SAP, they dont have a line for good paper work bad paper work and NO paperwork ... if you can help them with common sense logistics good luck to you, others have tried and failed !

3) How do you know your paper work is in 100% in ORDER if you did it yourself, best to rather let the M&G do it for you, and who really cares how they get you through quicker /// proberbly because they know the ropes better than you and I and maybe they also offer a sweetner (-:

At the end of the day (we dont need to worry) how a job is done, or how an engine runs, as long as it runs better is the key

4) Please, you cant relate where you are from to Africa .... Believe me it aint the same so dont even head down that path as you might be dissappointed

FINALLY to ALL AR guests / I dont want to sounds cocky BUT what is the major differance between the two

a) Bribe/Sweetner: --- it is payment in advance to get a standard job done better

b) Gratuity/Tip: --- it is a payment after the event to get a standard job done better or for appreciation..

Hell .... to be quite honest without splitting hairs, BOTH essentially end up with the same RESULT and both are bribes for services rendered one is just more discreet than the other (-:

Peter

I tip the baggage guys here in the US. Come to think of it, I tip service people all over the world. Bribes? You run a cost benefit calculation in your head. Some times it's better to play dumb. The cost? The person hitting you up gets to prove, in their own mind, his superiority over the stupid american. Like it or not, these are games that are better played by the experienced traveler. Lines in RSA? Hell, there are lines everywhere. Nobody can predict what kind of screw ups will happen, rest assured, they will. Plan accordingly. I would never book a connecting flight on the same day of arrival in the RSA. A night or two at the Afton House to dejetlag (is that a word?), meeting hunters coming and going, Louie and Annalise, makes for a less stressfull transition into Africa.

Dave

quote:

3. If my papers are in order, why do I need a M & G? (Unless they bribe their way to the front of the line)

You don't- especially if your papers are in order. You can bribe yourself to the front of the line with less money too.

Also, even if your papers are not in full order (happened to a buddy of mine who forgot his Canadian regitration certificate for one of his rifles); they excuse you and stamp the ok for a $10 "sweetner" for the guy stamping it and $5 for the girl who mentioned that the papers are not complete Heck I was there in the office when this happened. She said that the rifle could either be held until departure or...open hand...discussion in corridor...re-enter...other guy with open hand...Done! This was in 2004.

You want to get through the line faster? Make sure you and everyone in your group has your paperwork and everything else in order and leave the attitude at home. I have seen all the meet and greet at work and I have been through just as fast or just as slow. Granted I didnt have the pretty girl to keep me company but I didnt pay the $60.00 either. Come on guys, that is a ridiculous amount of money for something you can do yourself. SAPS is SAPS and you are not going to get through them any faster one way or the other. Have everything filled out correctly and ready to go. Be polite and patient. Some times it will go fast, other times it will take forever. It isnt about the money. If I could pay the money and get the service as advertised great. The truth is that dosnt happen. Try not to make your connections to tight and if need be allow for a night at Afton House. Hopefully things will get more organized and move faster but human nature both on SAPS side and the arriving clients side I doubt it. Just make sure YOU have all your ducks in a row and hope for the best. My advice at least for now is save your money. If the VIP service changes I will be right at the head of the line but not as it stands.

I've been through the line 4 times, three in RSA and once in Namibia. I filled out the paperwork per Gracy's instructions and followed the line through. I never tipped a dime. If some bugger wanted to grab up my bags I shooed him off. I carry my own stuff. I have had zero problems.

Just a comment from one who hasn't been there.

I'm actually encouraged to hear there are lines, what much of the English-speaking world calls "queues." It's been my observation throughout the world that only Brits and Americans "queue up." Everybody else masses around the (whatever) counter, and uses elbows to get to the front.

Jaywalker

Jaywalker, lines are fair (except where bribes can help) but the elbow method favors us big people.

I was in line at a table once to buy something, here in the US, after getting almost to the front a lady tried horning her way in front of me, I just leaned forward (probably 245lbs. then, 270 now) and crushed her out of the way.

that part said, I personally have no problem with the bribery system in other countries as stated it is a part of their cultures and the people consider it part of their income, I do have a problem with it in the US. I have been to south east asia and mexico and used the folded bill between the passport pages and other methods to make things easier. Bribes happen in the US too, the problem is that here you have to be rich, famous or powerful to take advantage of it. At least in other countries it is available to everybody, at least where I have been.

Take this for example. My cousin was pulled over for a traffic violation in the Philippines. Here he would have gotten a ticket, had to send money in to fund the gov., had his insurance go up or had to fight it and go to traffic school. There he asked the officer,"well, can I give you the money and you pay the judge?" the answer was yes, by saying that the officer could pay the judge it made it so it wasn't an obvious bribe and saved my cousin time, more money and paperwork.

To each his own, I'll just be honest like a few of the others and say if i am in a situation where a buck can grease my hips and get me through I'll palm it over.

Red

quote:

Originally posted by Ivan:
I don't understand why you guys use these "services"... are ya scared?

I couldn't care less about standing in line and doing the paperwork. I've done that all over africa and don't really find it a big hassle. It's something you kind of get used to IMO.

But, last time I flew to Zim thru J.burg, my rifle arrived in Zim only after waiting several days. So my hope with using Optima was that THEY would make sure my gun cases actually got onboard the flight to Zim during my transfere.

Just out of interest for those worried about TIPPING ///

Here in New Zealand we DONT TIP ... must be one of the very few countries in the world that does not have tipping as a national pastime or entrenched in society.

Peter

.

quote:

an to use Air2000 in the future so I will.

FYI to all...

I used Air2000 in June. They were great, but I'll warn you now....they ain't cheap.

I was told $35 by e-mail, but when my paperwork was being reviewed by SAPS the Air2000 lady told me it was $125 USD!!!! I didn't feel like I had much choice but to pay it at the time.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
Just out of interest for those worried about TIPPING ///

Here in New Zealand we DONT TIP ... must be one of the very few countries in the world that does not have tipping as a national pastime or entrenched in society.

Peter

Peter, have you not been in Auckland lately? Every charge card receipt at every restaurant now has a space labeled "Tip". Everytime you sign for a hotel charge, (Meals, bar bills, room service, etc) at any of the big hotels downtown, there's a space labeled "Tip"
It's quite a change in the last five years.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
Just out of interest for those worried about TIPPING ///

Here in New Zealand we DONT TIP ... must be one of the very few countries in the world that does not have tipping as a national pastime or entrenched in society.

Peter

Peter, have you not been in Auckland lately? Every charge card receipt at every restaurant now has a space labeled "Tip". Everytime you sign for a hotel charge, (Meals, bar bills, room service, etc) at any of the big hotels downtown, there's a space labeled "Tip"
It's quite a change in the last five years.

Hi

That is interesting //

Those SOB people JAFA's in Auckland must be trying it on. Maybe the overall charges are made with tip built into their prices, I dont believe a tip is mandatory, just maybe optional !!

Just out of interest the term JAFA used widely in NZ means ( Just A F...ing Aucklander (-: )

I have lived in NZ for past 28 years and have NEVER tipped anybody and have never had any one ask for a tip to date // mind you I dont go to the international hotels or rub shoulders in those classy resturants, so I could be proved wrong, but I still DONT believe even in Auckland that a tip is expected or mandatory

I believe they are just trying to CASH in on your generosity and trying to change things by putting tip in a seperate coloum on the statement bill ... GO tell them to jump, as all the brochures on NZ dont say tipping is a reqirement, say Peter Bird from Balla-Balla Safaris in Wellington said that (-:

Peter

I used OPTIMA this past July and have "ZERO" complaints.

They met us on time, got us through to Zim. never touched a bag / case and paid 30 USD going in and coming out (60 total for roundtrip).

Our guy was very professional, offered us directions, gave us some pointers for traveling into Zim...worth every cent IMHO.

JW

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

quote:

an to use Air2000 in the future so I will.

FYI to all...

I used Air2000 in June. They were great, but I'll warn you now....they ain't cheap.

I was told $35 by e-mail, but when my paperwork was being reviewed by SAPS the Air2000 lady told me it was $125 USD!!!! I didn't feel like I had much choice but to pay it at the time.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck, I do believe that is what I would consider extortion. They think they have you by the short hairs beacuse of the situation. I guess if you are using them in the first place they pretty much do. No fault to you or any other victim ugh er client. Soryy guys. I think $125.00 US to help you fill out some forms you can do youself ahead of time is out of line. These services do nothing extra for you. They dont gaurantee you get to the head of line or get special treatment. They dont guarnatee your bags, guns, or even in Matts case, a wheel chair will arrive with the client. They do nothing but provide a false sense of security and provide no real service I can see. A true meet and greet VIP service would meet me on the tarmac or at the gate with customs and SAPS representatives and hustle me right to my charter. They would have everything done in advance with just the formalities and legalities to be completed. It would certainly cost more but would then be worth the money spent. This is just a suckers bet in my opinion and a way to fleece the insecure and or inexperienced.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
Just out of interest for those worried about TIPPING ///

Here in New Zealand we DONT TIP ... must be one of the very few countries in the world that does not have tipping as a national pastime or entrenched in society.

Peter

Peter, have you not been in Auckland lately? Every charge card receipt at every restaurant now has a space labeled "Tip". Everytime you sign for a hotel charge, (Meals, bar bills, room service, etc) at any of the big hotels downtown, there's a space labeled "Tip"
It's quite a change in the last five years.

That's just a standard 'hospitality' banking stationery. Probably an US invention.

You just put a line through the box of "n/a".

I hope you Yanks don't feel "obligated" to tip just because it has the word printed on a piece of paper.


******************************

Net Amount: $
Tip: $
Total Amount: $


*******************************

"Doris,

It says "tip".

How much do we have to give? What IS the formula?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

********************************

My tip for the day:

DON'T!

As I recollect the word TIP is an acronym for:
To Insure Promptness". ie. it was given before the event.
Peter.