Okay, it has apparently been chiseled into cyberstone that the "suicide raffle" winner is going to use a lever-action rifle chambered for the .45-70 Government.

So let's look at what this means with regard to the rifle and the load.

What load would you, as a winner, choose? That is, what bullet weight and design? You must realize that heavier bullets eat into case capacity (which means slower velocity). You are also limited by cartridge OAL because the round has to feed from the magazine and into the chamber without hanging up. You could go with custom bullets having a tungsten core, which would keep your weight up and allow more powder in the case. Pricey, but viable.

Would you choose 500-grain solids? If so, see above.

Would you choose 400-grain bullets? If so, what type? What "mix" would you go with... one or two "softs" first, followed by solids... or what?

How would you address these considerations and what others would you examine?

Russ

[ 07-10-2002, 09:42: Message edited by: Russell E. Taylor ]

I'm not reloading so I can't say if the bullet will work in regard of OAL, feeding and minimum velocity, but I would go for the GS Customs FN in 400 grains.

SD is 0.272 - pretty on the limit, but the FNs already proofed to have more than outstanding penetration anyway.

Would only use solids, preferably the FNs, second AGS Tungsten.

Would use the provided Marlin Guide Gun, maybe with an Aimpoint to allow for very fast shooting LOTS of rounds into a very big nasty animal at short range!

Russ...

Were it me to win, I'd go with a Marlin 1895 SS Model, not the Guide Gun, of which the rules make no specific claim as to which make or model must be used, so long as it's a levergun in 45-70.

I'd load a Cast Performance 420 grain Hardcast bullet at about 1,900-1,950 FPS. This is simular to Buffalo bore Ammo, which is a 430 at 1,950.
Of course, BBA is also a fine choice.
Cast performance also has a 440 grainer, and their web site says they send load info as well, with the bullets.

~~~Suluuq

I use Cast Performance bullets in my .500 Linebaugh and have used them in other guns. They deliver quickly and are friendly to deal with. I have no complaints about their bullets.

I, too, would go with the Marlin 1895 Cowboy (it instantly meets my two requirements -- a 26-inch barrel and a full-length magazine). I basically have the same gun in my custom-built .444 Marlin. The buttstock would come off and my own custom version (I have a standing pattern with the stockmaker I use) would go on. I'm 6'5" tall and have a long length-of-pull, but the buttstock I use is, simply, "perfect."

I think your choice of bullet weight is probably optimum for cast lead. I'd want them "hard," but not "brittle." I've never had a problem with Cast Performance bullets being brittle. Another option would be some of the Beartooth bullets. I've used theirs, too, and have no complaints. They're not real great on delivery time, but they do the best with what they've got.

Daydreamer: You'd never get the GS Custom bullets in time for the hunt. The AGS slugs would be a good choice, though.

Russ

From Speer's website, here is their suggested retail pricing for the following.

45 Caliber (.458") - 25 per box
458-500 GR. Soft Point African Grand Slam $112.95

458-500 GR. Tungsten Solid African Grand Slam $134.95

Wow.

Russ

[ 07-10-2002, 22:15: Message edited by: Russell E. Taylor ]

I don't think I'll be entering the raffle, but, I'll play the what load game.

I'll go with the pistol gripped 1895 w/ the longer non ported tube.

For bullets, I'd go with bullets I'd cast myself, it seems that cast ogival wadcutter style bullets are sticking with the theme of the raffle. I'm not sure what weight, as I'd have to test loads, and my desire is the heaviest bullet that can be driven 1800 fps, likely a 450 gr pill, but who knows, maybe I could push a 500 gr bullet that fast?

Marlin 1895 22" barrel
460 grain Cast Performance hard cast
1900 fps


[ 07-11-2002, 00:16: Message edited by: jackfish ]

Damn, Jackfish! That sucker sure eats into the case capacity, doesn't it!

Better fill the rest of the case with Unique!

Russ

I'd use Buffalo Boar 430 grainers from my 1895 Cowboy. They've worked for other's, why not me?

HI,

I have two boxs of cast performance 525 grain bullet in a .510. They sure look bad to the bone and can see they would put one hell of a hole in anything they hit. Thanks,Kev

HI,

RUSSELL E TAYLOR, I will be sending my ss bisley out tomorrow to have it converted to a 500 linebaugh by MR. Clements.I see you said you have used cast performance bullets, I too have around a 150 rounds of the 525 grain, have you used a 525 grain in your 500 L?.And if so what is the fps you got with them, I hope to get around 1150fps with a 525 in a 500L, what do you think?. Thanks,Kev

Kevin:

No, I've used 410s and 425s. I could push the 410s to 1600 FPS or so, but I just don't have a need that would justify the punishment I'd have to endure. I'm running the 410s at 1350 FPS, which is... "comfortable."

If you hang out over at the forum on Sixgunner.com, you'll find guys who have run the heavier slugs through their .500 Linebaughs, I'm sure.

Russ

Anybody have specs on the 45-70 out of a 26 inch barrel?
Ms. Taylor didn't raise a fool

I suspect you could get REAL close to 458 Win Mag specs with that length barrel...

gs

Marlin 1895 Cowboy, AO Ghost ring sight. Loaded with ten (9+1), GS Custom 450 FN or 500 AGS Solids. Might even be able to get the GS FNs close to 3903 ME with that 26" barrel....

Bill

I posted some numbers on one of the other threads; the numbers just aren't there. I don't see how this can come off if the "3903" figure has to be met.

Russ

As to handloads, I'd highly recommend Starline brass.
They have a slightly deeper primer pocket (well within SAAMI specs, as well as within the nominal length of firing pins), to allow for more distance between the primer and any bullet that may come in contact with it within the tubular magazine. BBA and Starline re-designed the 45-70 brass this way, to eliminate any inadvertant firing of rounds with the magazine.
BBA also uses a military-type "slam-fire" resistant primer in their factory ammo, for the same reasons. I'm under the impression a major ammo maker produces this same primer for sale as reload components. ~~~Suluuq

Yes, CCI markets the #34 primer in their large-rifle primer series, specifically to help prevent semi-automatic rifles from slam-firing.

Russ

RUSEEL E TAYLOR, I sent my ss bisley out yesterday to MR. Clements and I will have a 5.5 inch barrel on it. I like either a 5.5 or 7.5 barrel, but I want this gun to be my carry gun when I move to Alaska, I will have a custom aged micarta grips put on , that alone will run me around $300.00, but will look great and are the strongest grips for that kind of use.I will also go with a front site, night site post band and a express barrel, trigger job,bowen rear sight, smooth out all edges. I will send alot on it, but considering I will carry this gun all the time when I move there it will be used alot. Thanks,Kev

While I use my reloads most all the time, for this event I would use Randy Garrett's 540gr +P or the 420gr +P, which ever shot best in the rifle. This way the loads would be a standard that anyone could get.

I would not want to be involved in any illegal acts, but I do not worry about muzzle energy in any shape form or fashion. I do not think ME is a valid measure of "stopping or killing power". a 55gr. 223rem and a 44mag have about the same energy, which one is best for large game. I know a 44mag with the right bullet will shoot to the brain of most any animal. With the 45/70 if the load will shoot through the shoulder if necessary, and knock a hole in the heart/lung area you will have one dead buff. And if the buff wants to charge, I'll just Mark Sullivan his A$$. I have no doubt that a Garrett cast bullet will knock a hole in his head you could watch TV through. I shot some of his bullets when I had my Marlin, still have my Ruger No1. I would rather do it with a double, but If I win the Raffle give me the lever action, send me to Africa amd call me LUCAS McCAIN.

Jackfish

What kind of load you using to push that 460 to 1900fps? Have a couple boxes of those and have'nt gotten around to trying them yet.

Thanks...

Mr. Taylor
I haven't made it to the reloading bench yet, but I will some day. In the mean time, I have just returned from Africa (third time in 12 months)where I have completed my dream of the BIG SIX using my Marlin lever rifle in 45-70 loaded with Garrett Cartridges 420gr or 540gr Hammerheads.
My Cape Buffalo went down with the first 540gr shot and stayed down after the second shot. My Lion took one 420gr Hammerhead through both front shoulders and a second in the brain. My Leopard died with one 420gr brain shot. My Hippo, Rhino, and Elephant all bought the farm with 540gr Hammerheads.
So for me, it is Garrett Hammerheads in 420gr and 540gr all the way. Enthuasticly YES to getting myself about 8 raffle tickets!
Vince

Hi Vince, would you please post some photos of your lever action hunt for us?

CGDavid, how you been? I worked up to 44 grains of IMR4198 starting from 35 grains. Winchester brass, 2.1" trim. Winchester Large Rifle primers. The 460 grain seats to 2.68" (Lee Factory Crimp) in my modified Marlin 1895 and cycles fine. Thank God for the Pachmayr Decelerator. Velocity is 1907 fps from a 22" barrel.

If the rifle weighs 7.5 pounds, Load from a Disk notes the following for recoil with your load, Jackfish.

Recoil velocity in ft. per second: 20.1
Recoil energy in ft. lbs.: 46.9
Apparent felt recoil: OUCH! - SEVERE

I don't know what ballistic coefficient that bullet has, but I entered ".200" and the muzzle energy from your load is 3714 ft/lbs. -- still short of the "required" (?) 3903 ft/lbs. for cape buffalo, as reported on the other thread.

Russ