I was recently prompted to do more research on travelling with firearms to see if anything has changed and it has.

My apologies for making such a long post!

First, a brief summary:

The Air Navigation Order, Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act was first drawn up in about 1945 and was very quickly adopted by all countries worldwide with the intention to ensure it was impossible for an aircraft to depart one country with a legal cargo and arrive in the destination country with an illegal cargo and of course to ensure no dangerous goods that were loaded onto an aircraft that could endanger it. The definitions between 'weapons of war' and 'sporting firearms' was originally made because so many military were returning to their home countries with what might be termed souvenirs of the lethal kind that they'd 'liberated' from one place or another. Even in the original version, the definitions were (in my opinion) not really up to scratch.

Every now and again, the act was amended to fine tune it but as far as I'm aware, the definitions between the two categories of firearms remained unchanged for something in the region of 67 years. However the newest amendments that seem to have been introduced in about August 2012 have finally changed.

The old definitions said that any calibre that had ever been adopted by any military force anywhere in the world was a 'weapon of war' and that (technically at least) prohibited calibres such as .308 & 30.06 etc as well as things like mortars and bazookas etc.

These definitions have now been scrapped but it should be noted the new definitions are somewhat vague and in my opinion at least should be viewed with a degree of caution.

All it basically says is if it's a 'weapon of war', it's not a 'sporting firearm' and if it's a 'sporting firearm', it's not a 'weapon of war' and that to me at least, is an open invitation to confuse the more simple and/or literal minded (or perhaps anti-hunting?) check in agents around the world.

Therefore, I'd strongly recommend that anyone travelling with firearms, no matter what their country of origin or destination or what the calibre of firearm they're taking, make a point of telling the travel agent/airline that they intend to take a SPORTING FIREARM AND AMMUNITION of whatever calibre on their travels and ensure that information is put into the comments section of their booking and they get a hard copy of the entire booking at that time. They should also ask the airline to confirm (in writing) their particular firearm/ammo will be allowed to travel and also take that written confirmation with them when they travel. Be sure to use the exact term SPORTING FIREARM rather than weapon or gun etc.

One should also be aware that if travelling from, to or through any EU country that the EU passed a nasty piece of legislation two or three years ago that prohibited carriage of any ammunition whatsoever from, to or through any EU country. This only remained in force for a few weeks before the airlines and others complained and the EU then issued a waiver to allow the carriage of sporting ammunition BUT they did not withdraw the original legislation.

Now remember they were only ever allowed to carry sporting ammunition and not weapons of war ammunition and ask yourself why the original legislation was not simply withdrawn? - My guess is it's because they intend at some point in the future to withdraw the waiver and (re)-enforce the original ban. So again, I'd strongly recommend the previous advice about getting written confirmation of permission to travel for both firearms and ammo.

One should also bear in mind that the previous legislation has been in force for something like 60 odd years and it may well take some considerable time for the airlines to become aware of the new amendments so we can probably expect a degree of confusion between the new and the old versions of the act for some considerable time.

We will be updating our website at www.shakariconnection.com with the new requirements asap.
NOTE:
The new amendments came from the UK version of the Act because it was the UK that drew up the original act at the end of WWII. These new requirements will or at least should be adopted by other countries worldwide but I would not be in the least surprised if it took a while for some of the less efficient countries to make the changes. Also note that the prohibition on firearms travelling in a baggage compartment that is accessible from the cabin whilst the aircraft is in flight remains and therefore some of the smaller aircraft such as used on short hop/domestic flights remains so if you have such a flight on your itinerary, you need to check the aircraft type before you leave home.
Info derived from:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap393.pdf

Prohibition on carrying on board sporting weapons or munitions of war
134 (1) Subject to article 135(2) and (3), it is unlawful for a person to carry or have in their
possession or take or cause to be taken on board an aircraft, to suspend or cause to
be suspended beneath an aircraft or to deliver or cause to be delivered for carriage on
an aircraft any sporting weapon or munition of war unless the provisions of paragraph
(2) are complied with.

(2) The provisions referred to in paragraph (1) are that:
(a) the sporting weapon or munition of war:
(i) is either part of the baggage of a passenger on the aircraft or consigned as
cargo;
(ii) is carried in a part of the aircraft, or in any apparatus attached to the aircraft
inaccessible to passengers; and
(iii) in the case of a firearm, is unloaded;
(b) information about the sporting weapon or munition of war has been supplied by
that passenger or by the consignor to the operator before the flight commences;
and
(c) the operator consents to the carriage of such sporting weapon or munition of war
by the aircraft.

Exceptions concerning carriage of weapons and munitions of war
135 (1) In the case of an aircraft which is flying under and in accordance with the terms of a
police air operator's certificate the commander of the aircraft must be informed of the
matters referred to in article 133(2)(b) but need not be so informed in writing.
(2) Article 133(3) and article 134 do not apply to or in relation to an aircraft which is flying
under and in accordance with the terms of a police air operator's certificate.
(3) Nothing in this Part applies to any sporting weapon or munition of war taken or carried
on board an aircraft registered in a country other than the United Kingdom if the
sporting weapon or munition of war may under the law of the country in which the
aircraft is registered be lawfully taken or carried on board for the purpose of ensuring
the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board.

Definitions
136 (1) In this Part:
(a) 'munition of war' means:
(i) any weapon or ammunition;
(ii) any article containing an explosive, noxious liquid or gas; or
(iii) any other thing,
which is designed or made for use in warfare or against persons, including parts,
whether components or accessories, for such weapon, ammunition or article;
(b) 'sporting weapon' means:
i) any weapon or ammunition;
(ii) any article containing an explosive, noxious liquid or gas; or
(iii) any other thing, including parts, whether components or accessories, for
such weapon, ammunition or article,
which is not a munition of war.

can you please translate this into something a simpleton like me can understand??

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
can you please translate this into something a simpleton like me can understand??

Sure, don't fly BA through London with firearms!

that wouldn't be a problem. i usually travel through Heathrow but i never take a rifle. it's amazing how simple overseas hunting becomes when the gun stays home....

folks , a good travel agent who is used to setting up travel with guns can get all the necessary paperwork - i yesterday got home from 5 weeks away , heres what countries i went through with guns

flew dallas to paris charles de gaule
paris charles de gaule to istanbul, turkey
istanbul to dushanbe tajikistan
dushanbe to istanbul
istanbul to frankfurt
frankfurt to kilimanjaro
kilimanjaro to amsterdam
amsterdam to atlanta ,
atlanta to dallas

in all the countries that i transitted i had pre-approved firearms transit permits

delta wanted ammo in a locked case INSIDE my luggage , turkish airlines wanted it in a locked case SEPERATE..and yes they charged me for the extra piece of luggage !!!

for the first time ever in kilimanjaro the KLM person weighed the ammo we were taking out (there wasnt much left )

bottom line is , i believe , get a travel agent who knows how to book your guns and you will be fine- let them worry about that and do their job !!!

hope that this helps

It means the regulations have changed worldwide and for all airlines rather than just the UK and BA.

BA incidentally have been one of the fastest, if not the fastest to respond to the new legislation so we have to admire their efficiency for that.

The old rule which was sometimes enforced and sometimes not said no ex military calibres including calibres such as .308 and 30.06 could travel.

The new rules have done away with that crap and they now say that any calibre can travel as long as it's a sporting firearm and not a weapon of war......... that sounds good until you examine the exact (new) definitions which are:

Definitions
136 (1) In this Part:
(a) 'munition of war' means:
(i) any weapon or ammunition;
(ii) any article containing an explosive, noxious liquid or gas; or
(iii) any other thing,
which is designed or made for use in warfare or against persons, including parts,
whether components or accessories, for such weapon, ammunition or article;
(b) 'sporting weapon' means:
i) any weapon or ammunition;
(ii) any article containing an explosive, noxious liquid or gas; or
(iii) any other thing, including parts, whether components or accessories, for
such weapon, ammunition or article,
which is not a munition of war.

Now read those definitions, especially the ones pertaining to 'munition of war' (very carefully) again and ask yourself which category (for example) a K98 Mauser actioned rifle might fall into?

Any logical person would view something like a K98 that's being taken on a hunting trip as a sporting firearm but an anti hunting or awkward minded check in agent etc could also define it as being originally 'designed or made for use in warfare or against persons' etc........ I'm not suggesting that WOULD happen just that it COULD happen.

There's also the issue of some people/airlines may take a while to become aware of the new amendments and therefore in either case, I'd recommend you take the steps recommended in my previous posts and get prior written approval etc.

Personally, I wouldn't draw their attention to the K98 etc thing and would just say it's a sporting firearm of whatever calibre.

Ivan raises a good point when he says: "bottom line is , i believe , get a travel agent who knows how to book your guns and you will be fine- let them worry about that and do their job !!!"

But I personally prefer to CHECK they do it right because if they don't, it's not their firearm that might be lost either temporarily or permanently and it's not their safari that could be ruined. - I was taught to be cautious and therefore want written confirmation from the airline rather than trust the word of a travel agent.

i agree 100% steve , as i left dallas i had written transit permits for my guns and ammo for all countries that needed it - all provided to me after i gave them relevant details of the firearms- i also carry a short printout staing the ammo rules as very often the checkin person doesnt know the rules and this can save time ...

Ivan

I think the more one travels with firearms the more cautious one gets but of course, most only do it fairly rarely...... JD also raises a good point when he says just use the camp firearms and it does indeed make life a lot easier for the travelling hunter but it's a fact of life that most people, including myself prefer to use their own firearms if at all possible.

I'm going in February,I'm not taking a gun but 40 rounds each of 450 niro and 416 rem. It is always a crap shoot as to what one will run into to. I had some nice express rifles but sold after 911, I use guns over there now as to travel with firearms one has a huge albatross bout ones neck. I think it will only get more difficult, never easier. Jack

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Sure, don't fly BA through London with firearms!

+1