would a Norma Oryx bullet be suitable as a soft for cape buffalo?

Thanks
Brad

The relatively low velocity of the 9.3 allows you to use most bullets effectively. Avoid shots that must go through heavy bone to reach the vitals and/or raking shots.Happy Hunting!

or shoot the A Frame...

is the 9.3x62 legal for cape buff in most of africa? i realize it's a .375 caliber, but for some reason i thought that the .375 H&H was the min...

Most places the 9.3x62 is legal.

quote:

Originally posted by 724wd:
is the 9.3x62 legal for cape buff in most of africa? i realize it's a .375 caliber, but for some reason i thought that the .375 H&H was the min...

It varies from country to country. some stipulate a minimum calibe and others minimum ballistic standards etc.

Is it legal for buff in most parts of Africa?... I'd say no, not in most parts but it is legal in some parts of Africa.

Probably the most common legal minimum for buff is .375.

Where is it not legal? Serious question, I don't know.

most parts of SA, Tanzania, Uganda & (I think) Botswana for a start. I could probably think of several others if given a bit of time.

That said, I've never seen anyone check a calibre before the hunter pulls the trigger and I've never seen a buffalo that can tell the difference between the two calibres.

I know what you mean, I know a woman that shoots buff in Tanzania with a 338 WM.

I've also seen where the 375 H&H is listed as the minimum, mainly because there weren't very many foreigners shooting 9.3x62's until recently or they were all from Europe, but if you checked the fine print it also listed the 9.3x62 as legal. In addition, I've seen minimum fpe irregardless of caliber. 4,000 fpe (or something reasonably close to it would get the green light.)

About the only time I'm concerned about smaller calibres (esp with less than perfect bullets) up to & including 375 on buff is with a frontal chest shot. The dewlap absorbs a shit load of energy and the bullet can relatively often slide around the ribs.

Stepping up to 416 & beyond makes no end of difference with that shot.

When I see statements like,

"When hunting dangerous game (Lion, Elephant, Buffalo) the minimum caliber is .375 (9.3mm)"

I don't know if that is actually the legal minimum or the safari operator saying "close enough."

I pulled this off of a reputable operators website in Tanzania...

I guess it all depends on the company. In Tz, the minimum calibres vary from species to species and all are listed on the back of the licence.

thanks for the replies.

Now, what softs would you all recommend?

thanks again
Brad

This might help, asked about them for my 375 H&H

Earlier thread on Oryx

Ain't no flies on the A Frame...

quote:

Originally posted by bradking1:
thanks for the replies.

Now, what softs would you all recommend?

thanks again
Brad

Have taken a few cape buffalo with 300grn 9.3mm Swift A Frames with great results.
Always backed up with 286 or 320grn Woodleigh FMJ bullets.

I like the Oryx for lion, have used it very happily on eland.

I have shot 1 buff with the new 325grn 9,3 Oryx. Frontal shot- broke the spine. Looking at the reovered bullet and the ones I have dug out of eland....No, I wouldn't recomend it.

There are better bullets. The new Swift 286grn ar SUPERB buff bullets from the 9,3. With some European?american powders you might be able to get the 9,3 to shoot the 286grn Barnes TSX to a satisfactory velocity- I cannot do it with South African powders.

The woodleigh 286grn softs are no tougher than the Oryx- ie great lion bullets and for everything smaller than buff.

Personally I have used Softs made for me by Ken stuart for the last 15 years. Steel jackets, bonded core, and a flat meplat. What I liked and performed like I wanted. Th old A frames made from swaged down .375 bullets gave minute of barn door accuracy in all three of my 9,3's but the new ones...they shoot, they work - look no further.

what about a 286 partition?

Why?? Why choose a bullet with an unbonded front core over a bonded one? Buff are large, and any side shot will have to go through bone- the ribs basically overlap- and they are heavier than eland/domestic cow ribs. Partitions are good bullets for certain applications...buffalo isn't one of them.

Will they work? Probably, Just like you would probably get away with using a 286 grn Oryx or Woodleigh. But considering the 9,3 is the legal minimum (in all the places I hunt anyway)...why push the boundaries? Only if your rifle doesn't lke the 286grn Swift , then start looking at vihavouri powder and a Barnes TSX or perhaps a 320grn Woodleigh or the 325grn Oryx...

Like I said above, steer well clear of the swift 250 and 300 grn 9,3 bullets. They were swaged down .375 bullets and no credit to swift (same problem with the 8mm Swift- swaged down .338's).

If you wish to try something different I have seen very very good results with Northfork, both regular softs and cup points. They are better buff bullets than any partition in 9,3...

quote:

With some European?american powders you might be able to get the 9,3 to shoot the 286grn Barnes TSX to a satisfactory velocity- I cannot do it with South African powders.

What would you consider satisfactory velocities with the 286grn Barnes TSX? I have done some test loads with this bullet and it groups exceptionally well with 51 Grains of RL-15, but I have not tested the velocity yet. The Barnes manual lists this load at 2,195 fps MV.

To meet the letter of the law in Zim you need 2405fps with a 286grn bullet. My own loads trypically chrono 2380fps on a moderate day in Harare - close enough fo Government work

I have had a client shoot a buff with a 286grn TSX frm a 9,3x64 at about 2450fps. Performance was superb - His first shot wasn't great and he put in a quatering away back up - which reached through the rumen into the heart.

my experience with Barnes says that they don't expand well below 2100fps in 9,3, and on eland the 250grn bullets are a better choice than the 286 grners. With SA Powders I have been able to get 2200fps and they are not much better than a solid at that velocity.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana: Th old A frames made from swaged down .375 bullets gave minute of barn door accuracy in all three of my 9,3's but the new ones...they shoot, they work - look no further.

That's interesting as I have had great accuracy with 300grn Swifts from my two 9.3x62s.

I have a 9.3 X 62, 375H & H and a 9.3 X 74R all of which I really like. If forced to choose just one of these offerings it would be the 9.3 X 62 CZ 550FS hands down. Easy to shoot, (recoil wise), easy to reload for, accuracy under 1 inch @ 100yds, just plain fun to shoot and capable of everything I ever intend to shoot or be around.

Ganyana - I am getting 2430fps out of my 9.3 X 62 with both Barnes 286gr TSX and solids. I use Hodgdon Varget. The TSX in this load proved awesome on a hippo last year.

Bradking - I am not really fond of the Norma bullets as there are too many others out there that are proven performers on Buff and the like.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry - What load are you using with the Hodgdon Varget to get that velocity?

Larry

as they say in Top Gun..."Talk to me Goose!..."

Thanks
Brad

Ganyana

I have killed cape buffalo before...416 Rigby and used A-Frames...great bullet for sure...was just asking about the 9.3 and options.

Once again thanks for the info and would love to hear more

Brad

SD and Bradking - Thanks for the question. I looked back at my post and the fps should be 2340 not 2430. Appreciate your bringing this to light. I am using 58.5 grains of Varget, CCI primers in Norma cases to get 2340fps. no pressure signs and this load shoots a legit 3/4" group at 100 yards with both the TSX and Solid. I also use the 286gr Nosler Partition with the same load and they group within 1 inch of the Barnes. My buddy, a gunsmith, did the crono work.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by bradking1:
Larry

as they say in Top Gun..."Talk to me Goose!..."

Thanks
Brad

My loads in my Simson M98 9.3X62 are

ADI 2208(Varget)61 gr Barnes TSX 250 gr 2570 fps
ADI 2208(Varget)59 gr Lapua Mega 286 gr 2418 fps
ADI 2208(Varget)55 gr Woodleigh RN 320 gr 2215 fps

All loads were mild and no need to trim. I guess these loads would keep my cases for 20+ reloads. Accuracy was 1" to 1.5" for 3 shots at 100 meters.

John Barsness' article in Rifle / Handloader a couple of years ago using a CZ 9.3X62 got 2700+ fps with 250gr Noslers (BT / Accubond) and 2550+ with 286gr bullets. These were pressure tested at Ramshot - 62,000+ psi

Mate,I used 286grn woodleigh protected points in mine and they are fantastic!! I shot a cape buf in the heart with one and there was only soup left of it

quote:

Originally posted by bradking1:
Ganyana

I have killed cape buffalo before...416 Rigby and used A-Frames...great bullet for sure...was just asking about the 9.3 and options.

Once again thanks for the info and would love to hear more

Brad

Saturday afternoon and forgot to watch the basketball game?

quote:

SD and Bradking - Thanks for the question. I looked back at my post and the fps should be 2340 not 2430. Appreciate your bringing this to light. I am using 58.5 grains of Varget, CCI primers in Norma cases to get 2340fps. no pressure signs and this load shoots a legit 3/4" group at 100 yards with both the TSX and Solid. I also use the 286gr Nosler Partition with the same load and they group within 1 inch of the Barnes. My buddy, a gunsmith, did the crono work.

Larry - I am new to reloading, and just bought a CZ550 9.3 x 62 about 6 months ago. I have been hesitant to exceed the maximum limits in my reloading manuals. The Barnes book has a maximum load of 51 grains RL-15, with a MV of 2,195. In doing some searchs on this website and others, I see that people regularly exceed the maximum loads from the manuals. Reloadersnest.com has a load listed for the 286 Grain Barnes TSX with 58 Grains RL-15, 7 grains over the maximum in the Barnes book. They show a MV of 2,367, similiar to your results.

I have hunted almost exclusively witht the Barnes X (of various types) for the past 15 - 20 years. I think this bullet performs much better with a higher MV. How safe is it to load above the maximum in the book, and how do you know when you have gone too far? I have seen the comment that you can load up slowly until you see signs of pressure, but what is it that I am looking for?

Thanks for the help.

Shaun

Larry - would be very comfortable with the 286grn TSX at 2340fps..pitty somchem powders are just not quite suitable.

Zhaba- Seen a few PP, but never had a chance to try them or had a client use one. I hear Goeff has recently increased the jacket thickness on his .375's and possibly his 9,3's to improve performance (not sure if that is for the standard softs or the PP's)

Shaun - Most all reloading manuals that are put out by bullet Companies keep there suggested loads well below maximum for liability reasons. Not to say you should just ignore these and forge ahead and throw caution to the wind.

Sticky bolt handles and flattened primers are probably the most common ways to identify when a load is getting to hot for comfort. I shoot my 9.3 X 62 for normal everyday practice and non dangerous game with around 54 grs of Varget. Tames the recoil some, although the full house loads are mild to me, saves powder and barrel wear and tear. I use the PRVI 285 gr bullet for most all my practice and plinking situations.

The accuracy factor was so good with the hotter loads and the fact I was going to use them for DG is the only reason I pushed the speed up to that point.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by SDHall:

quote:

SD and Bradking - Thanks for the question. I looked back at my post and the fps should be 2340 not 2430. Appreciate your bringing this to light. I am using 58.5 grains of Varget, CCI primers in Norma cases to get 2340fps. no pressure signs and this load shoots a legit 3/4" group at 100 yards with both the TSX and Solid. I also use the 286gr Nosler Partition with the same load and they group within 1 inch of the Barnes. My buddy, a gunsmith, did the crono work.

Larry - I am new to reloading, and just bought a CZ550 9.3 x 62 about 6 months ago. I have been hesitant to exceed the maximum limits in my reloading manuals. The Barnes book has a maximum load of 51 grains RL-15, with a MV of 2,195. In doing some searchs on this website and others, I see that people regularly exceed the maximum loads from the manuals. Reloadersnest.com has a load listed for the 286 Grain Barnes TSX with 58 Grains RL-15, 7 grains over the maximum in the Barnes book. They show a MV of 2,367, similiar to your results.

I have hunted almost exclusively witht the Barnes X (of various types) for the past 15 - 20 years. I think this bullet performs much better with a higher MV. How safe is it to load above the maximum in the book, and how do you know when you have gone too far? I have seen the comment that you can load up slowly until you see signs of pressure, but what is it that I am looking for?

Thanks for the help.

Shaun

Brad, if you decide to go with the Norma's be sure to check out Graf & Sons

http://www.grafs.com/product/265727

Norma does not recomend the 286grn Oryx for buffalo. That is why we load Swift A frames....

The 325grn Oryx is designed for brown bear and moose. It is still not a cape buffalo bullet.

If you can find Ramshot Big Game in your area I would recommend it. I get 2425fps to 2450fps out of 65gr. (John Barsness presure tested load) with 286gr. Prvi's, Woodleigh's, Noslers, and Norma's. Accuracy is substancially better than with H4350, R-15, or Varget powders in both Norma and Graf cases in my rifle. (A rebored Ruger tang safety with a very light barrel.) 3 shot groups for all bullets range around 1 to 1.5 MOA. The 65gr load also has produced excellant results with 250gr Woodleigh's and Hawk bullets, 2450fps to 2500fps and works nicely with Norma 232gr Oryx, 2550fps. Nice thing is that all bullets string vertically within 3 inches so one scope setting will do.

my only experience with the oryx is with a 9.3x74 on leopard. it did a fine job killing the cat but we could easily see some expansion had occurred. thus if that bullet will expand on a leopard, it would be unsuitable for buff

Both of these guys will attest to the effectiveness of H414 and Barnes 250 TSX. The Barnes TSX is hands down my favorite in this cartridge.

I think Norma Orix is too soft for cape buff.I shot cape buff by this bullet 375 once.
But Orix is great bullet for bear and antilops,I have enoough experience becouse Orix is so popular in Russia.For smaller buf from Cameroon Orix is great choise too.
Left Orix is from eland.Right is from cape buff.

SDhall

Please see the Nosler manual. Those velocities are also good but mild loads and very safe. the Barnes loads you refer to may be minimums??


Good info here

http://www.loaddata.com/members/listing.cfm?type=1


good luck