Didnt want to sidetrack the thread on wire transfers.

Some websites from SA outfitters say to get a notarized copy of the US Customs 4457, and the front page of the passport to submit with processing the South African SAPS 520 Firearms Import paperwork.

Some websites dont mention it.

Example below. Other websites give similar instructions.

http://www.huntinginafrica.co.za/more-info/firearms/

I had to get my 4457 and passport copies notarized when I signed up for Air 2000 (Hunter's Support) permit assistance.

I'm probably just not understanding, but I don't think there is any such thing as a "notarized" copy of a 4457. I suppose you could make a copy of the 4457, write a statement on it that it is "true and correct", sign it, then have your signature notarized. However, that would only be a notarized signature, not a notarized copy.

To my knowledge the Customs service does not provide "certified" copies of a 4457 like a "certified copy" of a birth certificate (not that those do much good since millions of whackos still insist that Obama was born in Kenya). It might be that the Customs service would grant you multiple originals of a 4457 if you filled out multiple forms?

Maybe I'm missing something or misinterpreting, but what exactly is it that constitutes a "notarized" copy of a 4457?

In many, many trips through the Firearms Branch at Joburg airport, I have never been asked for certified, notarized or anything other than copies. Officials always thanked me for having a copy of airline ticket, 4457, passport pages and hunt invitation letter ready to give to them.

Now, if you use a service rather than do it yourself, maybe, just maybe, the authorities will want a certified/notarized copy because they do not have the original at hand. Or, more likely, the service you are using is just covering all the bases by asking for certified/notarized copies and does not really need them....

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Carney:
In many, many trips through the Firearms Branch at Joburg airport, I have never been asked for certified, notarized or anything other than copies. Officials always thanked me for having a copy of airline ticket, 4457, passport pages and hunt invitation letter ready to give to them.

Now, if you use a service rather than do it yourself, maybe, just maybe, the authorities will want a certified/notarized copy because they do not have the original at hand. Or, more likely, the service you are using is just covering all the bases by asking for certified/notarized copies and does not really need them....

Regards

Not processing services advising to have notoarized copies. This is outfitter websites advising it. See my link in the first post. Items #2 and #3 state to provide notarized copies of the photo page of the passport and Customs form 4457.

This all started two years ago. If the police at the Johannesburg Airport police office dont care then I will not bother with this time consuming step on future trips.

Having notarized copies is not mandatory as far as I know but I always have them and give them to SAPS when there. That way I do not have to worry about getting them back as I always have the originals with me too. Don't know if it speeds the process or not.

I remember once hearing about a guy who did not get his 4457 back from SAPS and it was the original and only one he had. Made it very difficult when returning to the US.

I have done the same as David for years and have not had any problems. Better safe than sorry.

+3 If some are asking for a notarized copy just do it. It's not a big deal to get from any "Notary". I'd much rather over do it on documentation than leave anything to interpretation by officials in a foriegn country.

Mark

I always had notarized copies on which the notary has written that it is a true and accurate copy of the original. Probably not needed but an official looking stamp on anything in Africa always seems to make things go smoother.

Another thing that I always do, in addition to having multiple copies is I scan and email any important documents to myself. That way if I lose paperwork or an original is taken I can get another copy anywhere I can get an internet connection.

.gov drones love "official" stamps and embossed seals, more so in third world countries IME.

Heck, give them what they want. Spend 10-15 minutes at your bank; they will likely do it for free.

A notary who knows what s/he's doing won't certify something as "true and correct" other than your personal signature. All the notary knows is that the copy you want "notarized" is a copy of whatever it was copied from. The notary is not a customs official and can't validate the authenticity of a customs document.

My legal secretary does it for me every year, and she sees the original U.S. passport and my original 4457s, simply because she's the one that makes the copies and then notarizes them for me to take as part of my SAPS application. If in doubt, take the originals with you to show them.

As I recall, Gracy asked us for notarized copies. Anyway, it was hell finding a notary. They wouldn't do it because they couldn't "verify" the veracity of the info. I finally begged a guy at my bank and he signed it, "even though he wasn't supposed to do it."

quote:

Originally posted by Ropati:
Anyway, it was hell finding a notary. They wouldn't do it because they couldn't "verify" the veracity of the info.

I agree with the above. It is just my opinion, but it sure seems like some of you guys like jumping through hoops for the third world "big hats".

If you keep providing more than is required they will soon begin to expect it(like having ammo in a locked container).

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Ropati:
Anyway, it was hell finding a notary. They wouldn't do it because they couldn't "verify" the veracity of the info.

I agree with the above. It is just my opinion, but it sure seems like some of you guys like jumping through hoops for the third world "big hats".

If you keep providing more than is required they will soon begin to expect it(like having ammo in a locked container).

Exactly!




I happen to be a Notary. If you brought a copy of your front page of your passport I'd ask you "What am I notarizing?". You might make a statement saying it's a real copy and sign it, but all I could notarize is that your signature is authentic, not that the copy is real.

If you brought me your 4457, I'd ask you "What am I notarizing?"! I have no clue as to whether or not you forged the 4457! You could make a copy again, state that it's a real copy, and sign your name, and I suppose I could notarize the validity of your signature, at the end of your statement, but that's all.

It needs to look "official" and beyond that nothing matters. Everyone here knows the notary is of no value on the copy.

One has to sign the form at customs.
One has to sign the from in front of the notary.
???
Cal

Who decided that a notarial acknowledgement was necessary? Where does this nonsense end?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

If you brought me your 4457, I'd ask you "What am I notarizing?"! I have no clue as to whether or not you forged the 4457! You could make a copy again, state that it's a real copy, and sign your name, and I suppose I could notarize the validity of your signature, at the end of your statement, but that's all.

Todd, thanks for that explanation direct from the horses mouth.

If the holder of the 4457 wants to make copies bearing his sworn statement that they are genuine copies of the original, then you could certainly notarize his signature. This might look "official" to someone who is unsophisticated, but it would look like some kind of hanky-panky to anyone who had any familiarity with legal documents. You might as well put one of those rubber stamps on it from a night club that they put on a kid's hand to show that they are 21 and eligible to buy a drink. Or maybe just a rubber stamp that say "Official", or "Certified", "Passed Inspection".

Maybe an even better idea: I've got one of those plier-type seal embossers for the Sub-s corporation though which my family does business. It looks real official with a star in the center and everything! For $5 everyone can send me copies of their 4457's and I'll make them look really official!

Well the US Customs form 4457 is not a gun permit either but try to getting into RSA with your guns without one. I don't care if any of the requirements make sense or really mean anything. If that is what's required and eliminates a hassle I'm going to provide it and recommend all my clients do the same.

Mark

I have a "Certified" stamp in red with a box to scribble a signature. I got it at a local office supply store. It works wonders in Africa and even worked in Germany. I always have several copies of my 4457 and passport. I stamp a couple of them. I doesn't mean anything, but it sure seems to make the bureaucrats happy......Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:
I have a "Certified" stamp in red with a box to scribble a signature. I got it at a local office supply store. It works wonders in Africa and even worked in Germany. I always have several copies of my 4457 and passport. I stamp a couple of them. I doesn't mean anything, but it sure seems to make the bureaucrats happy......Tom

Clever.

Sounds about right. Officials in Africa, and other places... just love stamps and other trinkets of officialdom.

I once got into and out of Romania without European weapons permit (forgotten on my desk), with my CT Pistol Permit...

If you apply in person, you don't need to have anything notarized. Just show the originals and provide a photocopy of each. The photocopy is not required but it speeds things up a lot.

If you have to use a service to get the permits in advance (waste of time and money unless you have a tight connection), then you need to get the copies you send over by courier notarized. You can't send the originals, for obvious reasons.

In my experience copies have been sufficient. With my last 4457 the agent had no problem giving me two originals. I keep one laminated and one in original form. Seems to work.

It looks like we are looking at this 2 different ways.

1. if you are applying to have your SAPS 520 permit pre approved... you will need to have the notarized copies of 4457 and your passport with photo and information.

2. if you will fill out the SAPS 520 permit in South Africa you do not need to have them notarized.

From the answers members are providing you are looking at it how you will do your permit.

I also will be using Gracy's and plan to have my SAPS 520 permit pre approved -- so that when i hit the permit room i am expedited through.