The subject of this discussion is in the Reference and Information folder. Having hunted North America a lot I have gotten to a stage in my hunting career where I enjoy the hunt enough that I don't want to end early especially on an average quality animal. I have booked Namibia for 2011 for leopard/PG. I have some PG species on my "wish list" and there are other PG species I would like to hunt if we encounter them and they are high quality. In fact, I do not plan to pay a trophy fee for any average animal. I would rather enjoy seeing them and continue hunting. I have had large bowls of "tag soup" and prefer this over just shooting an animal to fill my tag. Is there any particular way to communicate this to the PH without pissing them off? I would think they want the hunter to kill game to generate the trophy fee? I would be thrilled to take high quality trophies, but would rather pass on lesser specimens and just enjoy the hunt. Perhaps I just need to tell my PH this and not worry about it? I appreciate your thoughts.

I would suggest you explain your priorities to your PH just as you have here. Most will understand and will try to find you the best trophy they can, regardless. That's what they do. They should know what the average species is in the area you will hunt. I've had more than a few tell me that a specific animal is the best you can expect for the area hunted. Every country and area produces different quality for a given species. You hire a PH to advise you and guide you, so take their advice.

1BigDeer,

First off it's your safari. You can spend the time shooting or not shooting as you see fit. If you are only interested in big trophies make that very clear to your PH. The only drawback here is making sure YOU are clear on what makes a big trophy of the species you are interested in and does the area produce the quality you want? For instance your hunt area may only produce a 48"-52" kudu or a gemsbok of 36"-37". These are good representative trophies. If you want bigger than that you likely will go home without one or you'll need to book somewhere else that produces bigger trophies.

Mark

I think that not shooting the place up and enjoying the experience is great. I do think it is kind of sad when someone likes the animal through the glasses but when it tapes 3/4" shorter then expected it is junk. But Im sure that you won't be your ph's first client that wants to hold out for trophies of a certain measurement. As long as they know your goals upfront im sure they will be very accomodating. Have fun and good luck with the leopard.

if you're a trophy hunter looking for top grade animals, then the word no is used. those guys doing that are quite used to coming home empty, but when they do, there is usually cause to celebrate

Mark made excellent points. Listen to him. Different areas, and countries have different benchmarks as to what qualifies as a "big one".
Make sure you only compare size for the area you are hunting. Every Ph knows that every hunter wants to take the biggest and the best. But he also knows that top end specimens are rarer than average heads, always has been the case and will always remain so.Passing is perfectly fine as long as it's based on realistic expectations. The true trophy hunter is okay going without pulling the trigger as long as the opportunity was there and he hunted hard and by the rules. BUT..lots of new "TROPHY HUNTERS" whine none stop if every animal on thier list doesn't make a record book or end up with some damn medal. My advice ? Shoot Bin Laden if you want a medal,otherwise enjoy your safari and do your best to find a critter that you will be proud of.
Best Of Luck
Dave

Leave the tape measure at home. Better yet, throw away the tape measure. Enjoy the hunt. This is not a competition but a vacation. Drink up the experience and shoot what the PH says to shoot.

I think you have received some very good advice from several of the commentors. Also in Africa it's different than N. Am. in that you have so much more diversity of game. On an elk hunt out west you could shoot an elk and if you had a tag you might get a good mule deer. You are not going to get 5-10 "record book" trophies of different species on one safari. In Africa, I think it is smart to research what trophy animals your CONCESSION is known for. The country or area is not nearly as important as the concession and what camp in the concession. If the concession is not known for the main animals you are after then you should know that your chances of a true trophy from that concession are slim. Lastly, don't expect that every animal of every species that you take will be a "record book" animal. If you get one true record book animal on a safari then you are very lucky. I think the tough hunts to select to shoot or not to are the one specie hunts such as a trophy bull elephant hunt. If you are looking for something above 70 and that is realistic in your hunting concession and you see a bull above 60, it's tough to turn it down. Good luck, enjoy the hunt and hold out for a monster. MMP

I was O.K. with everything I read until "shoot what the PH says to shoot". Throw that advice out.

Don't forget that a true trophy may not come with the length of his horns. A perfect example of this is a true old blue bull eland, which won't have close to the same horn length as an up and coming youngster.

I'd go along with dogcat and say throw the damn tape measure away.

I know what my trophies measure and some of them would make the book, which I could care less about. Have they been entered in the book? NOPE!! Will they be entered in the book? NOPE!! Will I always remember my nyala barking back and forth to some of his buddies who spotted us while sneaking down a dry river bed? YES!!!!

Have a great hunt!!

A good PH will certainly tell you, "No we can find a better one."

As I wrote in my article for the NRA magazine, I was the one ready to take the first animal I saw. The PH said to wait for something bigger. He was right. Remember, it's in his best interest to get you the biggest animal he can.
Bidness is still bidness. Even in Africa.

Trophyman

You have to set your trophy expectations with regard to the area you are hunting. If you tell your PH you only want to shoot "top 10 RW" quality animals than you will shoot very little in any area. Very few areas produce absolutely top quality specimens of very many different species.

Let me use gemsbok as an example. If you were hunting RSA, and told your PH you only wanted 40+" males, he will probably grind his teeth in frustration. With few exceptions, there really aren't any 40+" male gemsbok in RSA. Now in Namibia, a male over 40" is still a difficult trophy to secure, but at least it is a realisitic goal. You would be a fool to pass up a 39" male in RSA if you ever wanted to take a gemsbok in RSA. Set realistic goals for the area you are hunting.

This is no different than setting goals for hunting in the US. Limiting yourself to a 160" whitetail in Florida is almost certainly a fool's mission. In certain areas of the midwest it is far, far, from a liklihood, but at least a possibilty. Don't get so hung up on the tape that you can't appreciate a great trophy "for the area" as exactly that - a great trophy.

Bill

For sure, talk to your PH and outfitter. They make a living because you travel all that way to shoot stuff. I'd stress the experience is important, but tell him you will be shooting something. It doesn't have to be one of everything.

Thanks for your thoughts. Of all the game I have taken I have three trophies that would make the B&C All Time book. This is not important to me and they have not been entered in any book or contest. I just really enjoy the hunt/chase/stalk and really appreciate what it takes for an animal to get to be better than average. I realize that you can only kill a big animal if you hunt where they live, but you can't kill a big one if your tag is on a small one either! I will speak to my PH to determine what is average and exceptional for the area we will be hunting, explain what my thoughts are and try to make the most of it! The quality of my safari WILL NOT be decided by a tape measure! Now can someone speed up time?!

I started out leaving the measuring tape at home, but after dispatching an animal and then driving down the road a couple kilos and seeing a much bigger one, I felt bad that I shot such a small trophy...that seemed like such a good trophy 15 minutes earlier.

The PH can help you yeah---but you should also do your homework, know how to field judge the key species you're going after and be knowledgeable about how big certain species get in the respective concession that you're hunting in.

Don't just be a "shooter", be a hunter who forms opinions, learns the species and even challenges the PH. (Don't drive him crazy though!) I'll be honest. With plainsgame, to me it is about horn length. I want to shoot the longest-horned animal of that species there is.

On common eland I've opted for shorter horns with big tufts, but that's about the only plainsgame species I can think of that the "character" comes into play. I've passed on 40" light colored young bulls with no tufts in favor of 34-inched darker bulls with a full head of hair.

Of course on DG, there are many ways to determine "trophy status" but the lead off man is asking about PG.

If you're willing to hunt hard and hold out, you can often be rewarded in Africa with long-horned trophies.

A final thought: A PH'S recommendation to you to go ahead and shoot a certain animal is often based on his summation of what kind or how good a hunter you are. Your physical and mental toughness and shooting skills will spell out to your PH early on, whether he wants to take you to the watering hole or the mountains.

Moja

quote:

Your physical and mental toughness and shooting skills will spell out to your PH early on, whether he wants to take you to the watering hole or the mountains.

Thats true IMO

Seloushunter

quote:

Set realistic goals for the area you are hunting.

That's what it's all about right there---

Moja

quote:

Now can someone speed up time?!

Man, if I could I'd have Marc's Ethiopia DVD!!

quote:

Originally posted by 1BigDeer:
..........I will speak to my PH to determine what is average and exceptional for the area we will be hunting, explain what my thoughts are and try to make the most of it! The quality of my safari WILL NOT be decided by a tape measure! Now can someone speed up time?!

1BigDeer,

You have really understood and accepted the mostly very good the advice give! Good for you.

May I only add a small suggestion to ensure that everyone is on the same wavelenght? First the warning that there are some different interpretations of the terms Hunting Outfitter (HO) and Professional Hunter (PH). In my advice I refer to the guy making all the arrangements and taking your booking deposit as the HO. The guy who actually guides you and who "calls the shots" on trophy or not in the field is called the PH. They can, but need not be, one and the same person. In financial / legal terms you only deal with the HO! You MUST speak to the Hunting Outfitter, i.e. the guy who actually appoints your PH, before booking the safari. Make sure that the guy who is going to get your deposit on booking knows before he made the final quote that you are someone who will rather pass up on a "just make someone's understanding of what the term 'representative' means" sized animal and keep on searching for a "real" trophy. If you wait until your safari has started and then tell the guy who is going to guide you about your feelings some serious conflict may arise, if the Hunting Outfitter expects the PH working for him to "let the client shoot the full bag of at least representative trophies in x number of days".

Be sure that many, if not the most, Hunting Outfitters can and gladly will make sure that your desires and expectations are met. There are many who will guarantee that every animal huntes will be of some pre-determined trophy size: This could be SCI Bronze, or Silver or even Roland Ward minimum.

In my own case Andrew McLaren Safaris are prepared to gaurantee a client that if an animal the PH called for to "Shoot!" does not afterwards measure up to some pre-defined trophy value - like for example Roland Ward minimum- then no trophy fee will be charged! Naturally the client may also not claim the non-qualifying "trophy". It will be just as if the client never fired the shot, or the PH never said "Shoot!".

Sorry, I've no advice on speeding uo time!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

This thread brings up a question that I've seen mentioned here on a number of occasions but not discussed that I remember. The question is whether or not to take a tape measure on your safari. I understand the sentiment that a hunter is there for the hunt, they are not competeing with anyone nor looking for big record book trophies and finally they just want to have fun. I also believe that a hunter that determines the success of his/her safari by the size of his trophies has missed the point of safari. The BUT comes when a PH sees a client with that attitude as somewhat of a rube. I also think even the best PH might slack off a little when the guy has just told him "Let's just hunt". I think doing your homework as to realistic trophy expectations, sharing those with your PH and measuring the trophies yourself only makes you a better consumer and a little sharper in the PH's eye. Good PH's like to look for big trophies as long as they know the client will not sulk and be miserable if the big guy does not reveal himself.

Personally I always have specific trophy size expectations and carry a tape daily measuring every trophy.

Mark

Well said Mark
You are 100% correct about the expectations and willingness of a PH to work for the guy with the right attitude. We all want to get you the best trophy we can, it reflects well on us after all. But there is nothing that ruins a hunt faster than a guy who is never pleased with his trophy and makes it known at every opportunity.

What also might contribute to these problems is that when you are really set on the trophy sizes then you often end up, sitting in a car, driving around glassing most of the day. You have already lost the best part of the hunt when you walk 50 m from the truck and take a shot at 200m. This is simply not hunting to me, but I have seen it done before from the point of view I get as the cameraman when I film hunts.

If you really want to bring home a trophy, then it starts with you actually getting into the field, exploring the surrounds and enjoying "the hunt". Diesel stalking is the fastest and most certain way to bag trophies, but is also the fastest way to ruin your experience.

Being an informed hunter and working hard for your trophy go hand in hand, when you have put in the stalk and then turn down a trophy because you want something better, then you can leave the field with dust on your brow and sand on your knees, which in my book at least beats the hell out of diesel fumes in your nose and callouses on your but.

Good luck
Ian

In my limited experience, I think that PH's and operators are a fairly smart group in that they know that making their clients happy is what leads to better tips, repeat bookings, and recommendations to friends.

If you make it clear what you are looking for, most will really work hard to get that for you within reason. It's up to us as the hunting clients to keep our expectations reasonable, and not be upset when we don't see that 65" kudu, 150 lb elephant, or 50 inch hard bossed dagga boy.

I think most PH's would prefer a client who is pleasant and has a good time hunting but doesn't pull the trigger once because he doesn't see an animal that meets his standards over one who goes home with 7-8 silver medal trophies and is upset the entire trip because they didn't meet the gold standard.