Tony Markis killed not one but two Cape Buffalo with Winchester 86 in 50-110. First one one shot went 100 yds and died. His buddy stayed with him. Two quick shots dead buffalo#2. Guide said the fifty was a fine Buffalo rifle.

Those lever guns are fast huh?

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NRA Life member

Is that like the .50 AK? I remember the couple threads about whether a .50 Alaskan would work well for buff, does this thread answer that question?

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

I had to rewind my tape to make sure that was a lever action gun he was using. This is the first time I have seen a lever action gun being used in Africa.

The show will be on again on ESPN 2 on Tuesday Jan 29th at 11:00 AM Eastern time.

[This message has been edited by Buffman (edited 01-29-2002).]

hello,

the 50 -- 110 has the same bullet diameter as the 50 Alaskan, .510. It shoots the same bullet weight, but about 250 fps faster. I am having a 50-110 made for me by Mr. Dave Clay, and seeing how it will have a muzzle energy of about 5600 to 6000 I am sure it is well-suited for any game on earth, I am wondering what bullet weight did the gentlemen use in shooting the Cape buffalo and what type of bullet. Thank you, Kevin

If you are expecting 5600 ft-lbs of muzzle energy out of a .50-110 you need to reduce your expectations. This cartridge is practically indistinguishable from .50 Alaskan. They have the same overall length limitation in a model 1886 / Model 71 action. They have the same base case dimensions and pressure limits. There is no difference in the performance when loaded with the same bullets to the same OAL and pressure. With a 525 gr bullet, you would need a velocity of 2192 fps to get 5600 ft-lbs. The load data that I have for the .50 Alaskan suggests something around 1900 fps is achievable within the 44,000 psi pressure limit of the modern 1886 / 71 actions. With a 450 gr bullet that 5600 ft-lbs requires a velocity of 2368 fps, over 350 fps faster than the fastest load I have ever seen for this cartridge in that bullet weight.

Harald you are mistaken the 50-110 is 3/10 inch longer than the 50 alaskan and the Browning 1886 and the modle 71 will easily take 50,000 They are strong very strong. Kev is right there is no animal on earth that can stand in front of a properly loaded
50-110. The 50-110 in the brownings will handle 500+ grain bullets which the Marlin will not do

Respectively

1886

1886, if you were loading both with 300 grain bullets I would agree with you about the case length as it relates to performance. But when you are speaking of 525 grain bullets I believe you will run into cartridge overall length restrictions before you fall out of the .50 Alaskan case. Both cartridges loaded into an 1886 / 71 action have the same COL limits. They are the same case, except for length. Consequently, if they have the same internal volume because they are the same loaded length then they have the same performance.

You will probably discover that many wide, flat-nosed bullets loaded to anything over 2.5 inches OAL will not feed through the loading gate on that rifle. A Barnes Original 450 gr FN is 0.94 inches long, 0.40 inches of that is nose. A 525 grainer is about 1.1 inches long. Either way, the kind of bullets that have a lot of mass in front of the crimping groove are apt to be too long for the throat or the loading gate. The other kind will give you the same internal volume in either cartridge.

The modern Model 1886 / Model 71 is designed for a chamber pressure of 44 - 45,000 psi. Your velocities are roughly 400 fps faster than the hottest loads that I have seen coming from a dependable source (more than one). If someone is saying that they got these velocities, have them slap a strain guage on the barrel and measure the pressure next time. A .500 Jeffery will shoot a 525 grain bullet at 2400 fps at that pressure (50,000 psi), but it burns literally twice as much powder doing it.

hello,

Harold, you are wrong, the 50 - 110,has a case lenght of 2.4 and in a Winchester 86 or model 71. It will shoot a 525 gr. bullet 2200 fps, with no problem. I am having a Winchester model 86 built by Mr. Dave Clay in a 50-110 .Bufffalo Bore Ammo are working on a 50-110 load at 2,140 fps with a 525 grain bullet out of a 20 inch barrel.They have told me that the 50-110 could easily get to 2,200 with no problem and the pressure would be alright.I have a 50 Alaskan and have gotten 2,000 fps with a 475 grain bullet out of a Marlin. The win 86 can handle a longer COL than the Marlin and higher pressure.I am now waiting for my 50-110 from Mr. Clay and will get with out any problem 2,200 fps with a 525 grain bullet,I know I will get even more.Harold has not looked into this like I have and spent the money like I have if he did he would know all the facts.TALK TO BBA AND MR. CLAY AND SEE, THAN YOU WILL KNOW THE FACTS,Thanks,Kev

I have discussed this with Kev on several ocassions, and I still have reservations that one can safly get 2000 FPS from a 50-110 in a 86 or 71 Win., but I am willing to let the guys at Buffalo bullets have their say...they make a lot of big claims, so I'll take a wait and see what my chronograph sez on this one...

If, in fact, they can "honestly produce" then they have a real winner and I want one...

It has to be within safty specs...Those 86's and 71 were never made for 50,000 PSI, even the factory will tell you that. Remember it only takes one shot to produce headspace and the next shot is curtains

I sincerely hope that Kev is successful and gets that velocity...I will be next to own one and the big buff better get ready.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Kev, I based my comments on the article by John Kronfeld, who has done more experimental work on the 1886 / 71 action than anyone I can think of still living, and on the notes of Michael McPherson who described the use of structural analysis of the action to determine precisely how much strain it could withstand for a .510 caliber cartridge loaded to modern specifications.

I have been led down the path of ruin by a gunsmith before so I have learned not to take as "facts" the claims someone makes about what can be done. Maybe it will work fine. Maybe you can really get performance like that. I have a Model 71 myself and I have pressure problems long before 50,000 psi, let alone 50,000 cup. The .348 Win also doesn't generate anything like the force a suped up .50 will deliver. I'm just saying that I would require some hard engineering analysis to back up a claim that far ahead of what others before have achieved doing almost exactly the same thing. This was intended to be some friendly advice, not a contest of wills or who knows what. I hope it works out for you.