When is the last time you heard of an arrest over a shipment of ivory going to the USA? it is ALWAYS certain Asian countries involved.

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:
Alisa

I do think I tried to answer your question; It is from USFW. It was presented from a USFW director of some sort. I do not know how the estimate was calculated. Personally I would think this estimate from USFW is very uncertain but that does not really matter. What matters is that a large portion of the ivory poached ultimately ends up not only in china but also in our own countries.
The idea that legal ivory could be utilized and sold by the african countries is very sympathetic. Problem is that last time this was tried it did not work. There is no way any authority in Africa or elsewhere can distinguish legal ivory from poached ivory. That is why the ban on commercial ivory trade was introduced in 1989. At the time elephant poaching was out of control. The ban helped control the situation for years and I believe it is one of the main reasons we can enjoy elephant hunting now.
During the last years elephant poaching is again in the increase. Probably because the Chinese have become very wealthy and maybe also because there has been little focus on this problem for years.

I am certainly not an expert on the subject but I do believe that a ban on all ivory trade would help. Unfortunately even with bans people still buy ivory. Some because they do not care, some because they fool themselves to believe it is old ivory and many because they just don't know that they are fueling a demand that will eventually wipe out the african elephant.

Previosly we have discussed the burning of confiscated ivory. At first thought it is utterly meaningless, but I am not sure it could´t help. The burning of ivory stocks and even possible the British royal ivory is meant to send a signal to the public that buying and owning carved ivory is socially unacceptable. When it becomes socially unacceptable in the western countries the pressure on china to stop there trade will increase.
Nobody of course knows if it helps but I am sure that it is a better solution than shooting some poverty stricken peasant in Africa.

Please excuse my bad english


Good hunting

Carl Frederik

Carl,

Again, you completely ignore my question. You blindly state it is from a USFW director of some sort.

Where is this information published?

or

Where is the audio or video of the statement?

Your 40% number going to the US and UK is, in my opinion, a fictitious number. The vast majority, as TANZ-PH has stated is going east and staying east.

If you can substantiate your 40% statement from a legitimate source I will happily and gladly apologize if I am being offensive. Otherwise it does no good to haphazardly throw out fictitious information that gets picked up and used by other people erroneously.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:
Alisa

I do think I tried to answer your question; It is from USFW. It was presented from a USFW director of some sort. I do not know how the estimate was calculated. Personally I would think this estimate from USFW is very uncertain but that does not really matter. What matters is that a large portion of the ivory poached ultimately ends up not only in china but also in our own countries.
The idea that legal ivory could be utilized and sold by the african countries is very sympathetic. Problem is that last time this was tried it did not work. There is no way any authority in Africa or elsewhere can distinguish legal ivory from poached ivory. That is why the ban on commercial ivory trade was introduced in 1989. At the time elephant poaching was out of control. The ban helped control the situation for years and I believe it is one of the main reasons we can enjoy elephant hunting now.
During the last years elephant poaching is again in the increase. Probably because the Chinese have become very wealthy and maybe also because there has been little focus on this problem for years.

I am certainly not an expert on the subject but I do believe that a ban on all ivory trade would help. Unfortunately even with bans people still buy ivory. Some because they do not care, some because they fool themselves to believe it is old ivory and many because they just don't know that they are fueling a demand that will eventually wipe out the african elephant.

Previosly we have discussed the burning of confiscated ivory. At first thought it is utterly meaningless, but I am not sure it could´t help. The burning of ivory stocks and even possible the British royal ivory is meant to send a signal to the public that buying and owning carved ivory is socially unacceptable. When it becomes socially unacceptable in the western countries the pressure on china to stop there trade will increase.
Nobody of course knows if it helps but I am sure that it is a better solution than shooting some poverty stricken peasant in Africa.

Please excuse my bad english


Good hunting

Carl Frederik

Carl,

Again, you completely ignore my question. You blindly state it is from a USFW director of some sort.

Where is this information published?

or

Where is the audio or video of the statement?

Your 40% number going to the US and UK is, in my opinion, a fictitious number. The vast majority, as TANZ-PH has stated is going east and staying east.

If you can substantiate your 40% statement from a legitimate source I will happily and gladly apologize if I am being offensive. Otherwise it does no good to haphazardly throw out fictitious information that gets picked up and used by other people erroneously.

The director I heard was as I recall on a program from NG. I do not have a link. But it took med 10 min to find the following;

This is from USFW 2012; http://www.fws.gov/internation...hant-ivory-trade.pdf
"the number of seizures of illegal ivory made by the Service accounted for about 30% of all the reported seizures in the world."


USFW; http://www.fws.gov/internation...ons-and-answers.html

"What is the U.S. role in the illegal elephant ivory trade?
The United States is among the world’s largest consumers of wildlife, both legal and illegal. As with any black market trade, it is difficult to determine the exact market value or rank the U.S. role in comparison to other nations. However, we remain a significant ivory market, and we must continue to be vigilant in combating illegal ivory trade. By effectively controlling illegal ivory trade at home and assisting elephant range states and consumer countries around the world, we can have a significant impact on elephant conservation."

Good hunting

Carl Frederik

Tanz-Ph:

China IS the problem concerning poaching, as you said.

China is also the new colonialism threat to Africa; they just don't realize it -- yet. Same game, different angle.

I will take anything coming from National Geographic with a very large does of salt.

However, no matter what the rest of the world do about ivory, the real culprit is south east Asia.

Sadly, wherever we look, it is always them who are involved in the decimation of wild life in Africa.

It is not just ivory either.

Saeed,

I couldn't agree more!

Majority of confiscated ivory coming to US is from legally hunted ivory with mistakes in paperwork thus seized as illegal ivory
It has nothing to do with illegal ivory trade
USFWA twist anything just to get their own results and of course as usual, spotlight is turned away from real culprits which are SE Asia and China

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Majority of confiscated ivory coming to US is from legally hunted ivory with mistakes in paperwork thus seized as illegal ivory
It has nothing to do with illegal ivory trade
USFWA twist anything just to get their own results and of course as usual, spotlight is turned away from real culprits which are SE Asia and China

Excellent point. One of my good friends just had his ivory seized because the paper work was lost by the airline.

I wonder if Tanzania's response to ivory poaching by shooting poachers is an attempt to show USFWS that they are serious in stopping ivory poaching.

465H&H

And, did it ever occur to any of these nations that rather than burning already harvested ivory, if they legitimized it, by stamping it for example, they would flood the market with ivory, thereby driving down the price and reducing the incentive to poach? Besides raising a lot of money that could be poured back into anti-poaching?

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I wonder if Tanzania's response to ivory poaching by shooting poachers is an attempt to show USFWS that they are serious in stopping ivory poaching.

465H&H

It is an old article, and the policy was never implemented.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Fantastic news.

Now, can we also apply the same laws to their Chinese masters?

I agree Saeed

http://www.ippmedia.com/frontend/index.php?l=69385



Tanzania, US resolve to end poaching in Selous reserve
BY AISIA RWEYEMAMU
28th June 2014



Tanzania and US representatives are meeting in Dar es Salaam to adopt best measures to permanently curb networks that are behind escalating poaching, particularly in Selous Game Reserve (SGR).

Lazaro Nyarandu Minister for Tourism and Natural Resources yesterday unveiled the initiative, emphasizing this in opening remarks at the roundtable discussion to resolve on future management of the reserve.

At the meeting Ambassador Mark Childress said the US is firmly committed to support the fight. “What is needed is to set up workable strategies that will enable the working forces to achieve the targets at required standards.”

Ambassador Childress said joint efforts would bring considerable success against poaching and ensure conservation of elephants, lions, leopards, hippos and rhinos.

The one day roundtable discussion will also discuss possible experiences and challenges in the conservation of wildlife in Tanzania particularly in the SGR.

Minster Nyarandu highlighted issues that need to be addressed including money laundering, saying the crime is immensely financing poaching activities in the country. He said the discussion will set up specific measures and resolve on the legal actions to be taken towards achieving poaching in the famous world heritage SGR, saying it is the largest wild habitat in sub-Sahara.

He called upon the general public and the government to demonstrate adequate commitment towards wildlife protection and periodic self audit to determine sustainable development of the country’s ecosystems. On his part, Shadow Minister for Tourism and Natural Resources Peter Msigwa said poaching is a challenge because hardcore poachers are big business gurus and politicians.

The Shadow Minister told the US ambassador that the Opposition was supporting the initiative to bring about sustainable conservation elephants.

The Permanent Secretary in the ministry Maimuna Tarishi said because of the challenges in the wildlife sub-sector the government recently established Wildlife Authority (TAWA).

TAWA will be an autonomous public institution responsible for management of wildlife resources.

TAWA is expected to adopt paramilitary code of conduct which calls for support in staff capacity building. The authority will generate own funds to support all its operation.
SOURCE: THE GUARDIAN