I would like to know what our experienced members think of Schmidt Bender scopes. The scope in particular is the 1.5-6 with the illuminated Fash Dot reticle. The rifle will be primarily for dangerous game , but with longer range potential. Apparently, SB has two recticle placement options 1) "American" located on the eyepiece plane (advantage that the reticle does not get larger with increase in power) 2)"European" located on the objective plane (advantage point of impact quaranteed throughout power settings). I am not sure these two options are available with Flash Dot.
Your thoughts please.
Jim

I love Schmidt & Bender scopes. In fact, I rate them as the best, together with Sawrovski. (I like Sawrovski's finish more.) I do not like flash dots, and do not see the need for one. Other people might feel different. I like the cross hairs in the first focal plane, in other words, thickening as you turn up the power.

I have several S&B's but have no experience with the illuminated dot other than looking through one. I feel that S&B makes the finest scope on the market. They have tremendous light gathering ability, can take a beating and hold their zeros. If you can affort them they are the scopes to buy, if you can't afford then, buy Leupold. I have not sprung for the illuminated reticle becuse I figure that I would forget to turn it off and the battery would be dead when I needed it. If I can't see it through a S&B it's too dark to shoot.

TerryR

Buy a good scope - you can't shoot what you can't see.

I have used several S&B scopes starting about 28 years ago.

They were then and still are one of the best scopes on the market.

I have 3 of the new Zenith Flashdot scopes.

I have 2 1.1-4 with the reticle in the "American" focal plane, one on my drilling one on my 450/400.

I have the 1.5-6x42 on my Blaser R 93 Tracker bbl. in 308. It has the reticle in the European" focal plane.

I have several European focal plane scopes and they do not bother me.
Both systems have their advantages.

I highly recommend getting the flashdot reticle.
It is excellent. It has 11 different brightness adjustments. You can select your proper brightness aand then put the dial between two settings turning the reticle off, so when you turn it back on you know right where you are.

The flash dot reticle will automatically turn itself off after 6 hours.

When turned off it in no way interfears with the "daytime" reticle.

I also have the Swarovski 1.5-6x42 with the illuminated circle dot reticle.
Both are good scopes.

I put the S&B on the Tracker 308 because I shoot that bbl a lot and really like the scope.

Jim what caliber rifle are you putting it on, and for what game?

Look at Kahles, they offer a similar scope. I have one on my 9.3 DR. It is a fine addition to the gun and works great. It has the illuminated reticle feature that I now cannot do without.

I currently own 1 Swarovski,1 Zeiss and a whole Bunch of Leupolds (over a dozen). I saw the S&B at my friends shop a couple of weeks ago when the salesman was there and got to look at ALL their offerings. The illuminated Dangerous Game scope had to be the finest scope I have ever looked thru. Give the choice it would replace all my scopes but I could buy an airline ticket to Zim for the price. If I remember that particular scope was $1600 which is WAAY beyond the price I'm willing to pay for a scope. The quality wasn't that much superior to my Leupolds, not that it may not be worth that much just not to me.

I guess I'm in the minority but I'm not that happy with S&B. Having always heard they were the best I saved my pennies and put a standard crosshair 3x12x40 (not illuminated) on a Sako I took to Africa in '03.

I don't care for the short eye relief and ABSOLUTELY HATE the magnifying cross hairs. You could hide a bus behind that cross hair on full magnification at 100 yards!

It's also the only scope I've ever had knocked WAY off during travel.

I carried that gun again this summer for a while and got me rethinking the whole situation.

It is quite clear and brings in light like crazy, but you'll probably see mine on the classifieds pretty soon. I'm going to replace it with a Leupold.

Kyler

quote:

If I can't see it through a S&B it's too dark to shoot.

I recently acquired a Swarovski Habicht 3-12x56 Nova that has the cross hairs in the first focal plane.

I noticed the comments below from NE 450 No2 and Karl S about it, and wondered if any of you could go into some detail about what you like and don't like about European style.

quote:

I have several European focal plane scopes and they do not bother me.
Both systems have their advantages.

quote:

I like the cross hairs in the first focal plane, in other words, thickening as you turn up the power.

I haven't gotten mine mounted yet, but I'm very pleased with the bright optics this thing has got.

Also, besides the advantages and disadvantages, why were these scopes designed this way in the first place.

Cheers,

Alan

Alan
In American style scopes the reticle stays the same "apparent" size while the image is magnified as you turn up the power.
Because of the location of the reticle inside the scope the point of impact can change when the power is changed.

I European style scopes the image and the reticle are both "magnafied" as the power is turned up.
Zero will not change in this type scope.
Since the reticle is "magnafied" the cross hairs are bigger/thicker at high power, and thinner at lower power, just the opposite of what is really desireable. Thus the crosshairs might be too thick say for varmit hunting at high power.

In reality the crosshairs subtend the same amount of measurement on the target at all powers as they are "magnafied" the same as the target.

One nice thing about an illuminated reticle in an European style scope is that in compensates for the crosshairs getting "thinner" at lower power.

I hope that makes sense.

I suggest you go to a gunstore and look at both types.

One of the things about the Swarovski 1.5-6x42 with the illuminated circle dot reticle, it is of the European style, is that at low power yur eye picks up the circle very fast. At higher ,power you pick up the dot.

The S&B Flash Dot is also an excellent system.

N.E. 450 No. 2
I am putting it on a pre 64 model 70 for cape buffalo and plains game. Another question, what mounts do you guys recommend?
Jim

I have both Swarovski & Schmidt & Bender and am exrtemely pleased with both.I have no experience with the flash dot though.I'm thinking of buying a new scope soon and may try one.I cant decide between it and a ranging reticle,I don't think you can get both.Swarovski is also supposed to introduce a new line in 2007,so you may also want to check them out also.I've never been to Africa but I think the flash-dot would be the ultimate for Leopard.

I compared a friends S&B with flashdot to my Leupold IR and vastly preffered the flashdot. It is so bright you can use it during the day if you wanted and the "clicks" on the adjustment knob are positive, not mushy like the Leupold. Also... my illuminated part of my reticle failed in Zim. I really want a S&B.

That S&B has an eye relief of 3.7 inches. A comparable Leupold has 4.4 inches. That's a big difference in a heavy-recoiling rifle.

Hey NE 450 No2,

Thanks for your explanation, and it all made perfect sense. I pretty much understood that part of it as I actually have the scope in hand.

Since the German's aren't know for doing things haphazardly, why do you think they designed these scopes this way in the first place?

Cheers,

Alan

quote:

Since the German's aren't know for doing things haphazardly, why do you think they designed these scopes this way in the first place?

We're the ones who won the war.

quote:

Originally posted by jhaney:
Another question, what mounts do you guys recommend?
Jim

You can't go wrong with Talley quick detach mounts, but you can save about $100 with a Warne or a Leupold QRW.

If you go with the Leupolds, be sure they are the QRW and NOT the QR Model. The W in the designation stands for Warne as they are a licensed knock off.

The little ears on the QR's are easy to knock loose, I have learned the hard way. IMO they have no place on a DGR. In fact, in my experience they are a POS design and have no place on any rifle at all, ever.

Cheers,

Alan

Alan, I'll echo NE450, explanation. The target size stays the same, so you can use your reticles to judge distance. Also, the thick cross hairs are very good in low light (I personally do not like Illuminated reticles), and when culling springbok/ blesbok at night, they work excellent. I do not agree with aprevious poster that the thick crosshairs cover too much, I have taken headshots with my 2.5-10x42 Swarovski on springbok at far enough to make me very confident in these scopes.

Karl S is correct. The Germans do a lot of humnting at night.
Also with the European system there will ne no change of zero as the power is changed.

I have not found the thicker reticle at higher power to be a problem hunting big game.

I have several S&B, I find them very good scopes. The latest being a 3-10x50 w/illuminated reticle in a #1 or 4. I also find Swarovski, Zeiss, & Kahles very much in the same class.

quote:

The Germans do a lot of hunting at night.

To add: Which means if you hunt at night with an American scope, come time to shoot you will have a very poor view, if any, of crosshairs. Taking a shot under those conditions is asking for trouble. Yes I know, most N.A. hunters don't need thick crosshairs, as they are basically daytime hunters. But I will add, on the other hand, if you use the European style for a good amount of time, you will realize that it is actually a better system, jmho, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

SCHMIDT&BENDER

http://www.nightforceoptics.com/

As if you need another option!! A little less expensive than S&B and Swar. They come standard with illuminated reticle.

No Leupold can come close in low light situations, this from a dyed in the wool Leupold fan.

I bought a Swarovski, but wish I had the S&B. I think the optics are in the same class but the three turret system of the S&B beat the too tall two turret system of the Swarovski for the illuminated reticle scopes - like mine.

You don't need the illuminated reticle unless you are hunting cats imo.

JPK

"HE WAS LOOKIN' FOR A HAWKEN RIFLE, .50 CALIBER OR BETTER. SETTLED FOR A .30 BUT BY GAR IT WAS A GEN-U-WINE HAWKEN. YOU COULDN'T GO NO BETTER".

Much the same can be said about Schmidt & Bender scopes.

I have used them all.

S&Bs are the best, with Swaros a close second.

Where is the European focal plane in a scope?

Hey Doc,

The European or "first" focal plane is located on the objective plane. Read NE 450 No2 and jhaney's posts again and they will give a more complete explanation.

Hey WPN,

Are you sure about that??? What war, I must have not gotten that memo!

Also, many thanks to NE 450 No2 and Karl S for explaning the fine details to me. I hope the game warden doesn't notice, 'cause this thing sounds perfect for a poacher.

I once had an opportunity to shoot a 1.5x6 S&B side by side with a German Zeiss 3x9x42 for several sessions at the range. After that experience, there is no question in my mind that S&B makes the finest rifle scopes in the world.