What is the best caliber cartridge for big dangerous game in Africa?

I expect this will get things going here. What is the minimal? What is the maximum?

If you want to make an assumption:
Assume the shooter/owner will be a reloader.
Assume the shooter/owner will not be going to Africa for several years (if ever), but wants to find a good gun now.

My guess is that the .458 Lott will be the popular answer. Not because it's the most powerful or most versatile but because it would have to be a solid .45 caliber stopper that can be handled in a reasonable weight rifle.

And the .458 winnie will work in it. Now what other cartridge/rifle combo can claim two different catridges will work in the same rifle?

The "best" one is the biggest YOU can handle under all conditions, simple as that.

ddunn,

I agree with John.

Here is another way to look at it, though.

If you think you are going to go to Africa once, maybe twice, and take one buffalo. Then a .375 H&H is a good choice and it makes a pretty good plains game rifle as well. Also, the .375 H&H has some application in your North American hunting. Of course, if you've got the money and don't mind buying a gun that will have a somewhat limited use, then a .416 would be a good choice.

If you think you are going to go to Africa and have the chance at several buffalo, then a .416 would be a good choice.

If you have elephant on the menu, then get the biggest rifle you can shoot well.

Big, in of itself, is no good if one doesn't develop the skill to use it. Heavy recoiling calibers are not for everyone.

Regards,

Terry

[ 09-09-2003, 06:45: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

There is a reason why everybody and his aardvark catalogs a .375 H&H in their big game rifle lines.

jim dodd

dd,

I did a lot of research before I bought my two African rifles first I bought a 375 and put a top of the line scope and Qd mounts and it worked perfect but before this read Boddington's African rifles and Cartridges then decide what you want...
My second choice was the new Ruger M77 in 458 Lott...This rifle with its capabilities when reloaded is a stopper with the best of them and premium bullets...I had some reservations with shooting the rifle and wondered if I bought to much gun...But after talking to my Ph and he told me how to shoot and hold it... Wow it was super and I controlled it and held it down for a quick second shot and a third...With the Pachmayr decelerator pad and right grip it was very manageable...This was my decision...
Terry and John are also correct and I agree with them...375 is very lethal with a better then average shooter...IMO but I wanted a little more..
Another factor which you will worry about is how much money can you spend...

Hmm,
375 H&H
.416
458 Win
458 Lott
Just looking at the numbers, having never shot any of the above cartridges, maybe I don�t need a new gun. I always thought I would use my grandfather�s M700 in 30-06 for plains game and I purchased a new Browning 1886 in 45-70 a few years back.

Hmmm. My 30-06 kicks about 20 ft lbs. My 375 H&H kicks between 50-62 ft lbs, depending on loads.

I suspect the answer to your question is buy a 416 to 458 Lott, or even a 500 A2, put a muzzlebrake on it, removeable, and get used to shooting it. Remove muzzle brake when in bush, and put thread protector over it.

This is a method I have 'borrowed' from Ray Atkinson, and, I firmly believe it to be a very wise move, since anything over 62 ft lbs of recoil, at least for me, is not pleasant enough to shoot for over 20 shots a day. I want to be able to shoot as many shots of my game rifle, or for me, protection rifle, as I would my 30-06.

In other words, 60-100 rounds a day.
gs

9.3 by whatever, either X62 or X64 for a bolt, or X74R for a double.

Shoot just a bit easier than a 375, and can be loaded up with 320 grainers for the true beasts.

If you are willing to metricate that is.

Any .416 will work fine under any condition, but for self defense in the bush I love a double .470

Very hard to beat a .375. For a client I don't need him to carry a cannon, I just want him to shoot straight, and then there are no follow ups and I don't get any more grey hairs.

Some countries specify a minimum caliber of .400 for dangerous game so without knowing where you will be hunting it is hard to be definate. In Souuthern Africa 9,2mm (.360) is the minimum.

It is perhaps the best reason for the .458 Win. Most shoot cast bullets like a dream, and you can use a good cast bullet load for all except your plains hunting in the 'states and get really used to the rifle. With Fresh ammo the .458 will do all anybody asks of it in Africa.

Leave muzzle brakes in America. If you need one, go to a smaller caliber.

I like to be traditional with a touch of nostalgia. My choices, that I currently own, are:

.375 H&H Magnum (Ruger M77 Magnum)
.416 Rigby (Ruger M77 Magnum)
.470 Nitro (Merkel double, Model 140-2)

I hope to use one of these on a Cape Buff some day. I've only done two ranch hunts in South Africa, so far, so I freely admit I'm not one of the more experienced people on this board. Still, I think my choices are sound. These cartridges have certainly proven themselves over the years. Of course, there are other cartridges that would work just as well (.375 Weatherby, .458 Lott, .416 Rem, etc.)

-Bob F.

[ 09-11-2003, 01:24: Message edited by: BFaucett ]

I think if you have a .375 H&H and a .416 of any of the common varieties, you have all the dangerous game rifles needed. By the way, I have a pair of .375's and a .416 Rigby.

JS

You've got all the bases covered some twice..My combo is the 375 and the Lott...

Back to the D.C. summer of 04

Mike

Freedom is not Free

[ 09-11-2003, 05:02: Message edited by: retreever ]

Yep,
Anything from .375 H&H to 470 NE. Leave the chest beating over larger calibers to the PH. He will probably be shooting something in the .416-.510 bracket, if DG is on the bill, and if he likes the looks of you toting a .375 H&H.

Of course, if you are proficient with a 500A2 or 500 NE, O.K., as long as you have a smaller pee-shooter, er, uh, pea-shooter for plains game, to go with it. Double entendre intended.

Seems like the ph in the know would rather you had a 375 that you could shoot well. Mine always say shoot a 375 well and I wont have to back you up. But lets face it if you can afford the big boys why not own one. If we were practical we wouldnt be hunting in africa in the first place. Ive never had a ph back me on anything but mabe I just dont take the marginal shots to begin with. My choice is a 375 with qd rings, a 1 3/4x6 for dg and a 3.5x10 for leopard.

In the UK where the hunter might well fill in time going abroad for boar and moose etc the answer IMHO is 9.3x62 and more field shooting hopefully making up for any (imagined?) shortcomings on buffalo

Looks like a 458 something (depending on what I can find a gun show) is in my future.

Thanks

Never been there, but I know one thing for sure, don't read about Bell and then carry what he would have chosen!!! :-)

I am of the opinion of biggest I can shoot well. Not that I am a bad shot, but if something can eat me back or kill me then I want to make sure it is as dead as I can make it. My 458 Win. is at the gunsmiths right now and I am waiting to hear how much it will cost to open it up to 458 Lott.

Red

This is interesting.....absolutely nobody has mentioned the weatherby cartridges. A guy can learn a lot on this forum.

Vapodog,

Prior to this year I would not have considered a Weatherby for a DG hunt. However, I fired a 416 Weatherby in Zimbabwe during a range session and did not find it unpleasant at all. The rifle belonged to an appy PH that was part of our elephant hunting party and was not modified in any way from factory condition. I had heard many times how punishing this caliber was to shoot for those behind the trigger and wanted to see for myself. Firing factory Norma ammunition which is rarely lightly loaded, I hit dead center on the target(a quart plastic water bottle) from about 40 yards and found the action and trigger acceptable. The recoil was not so abusive as to prevent accurate shooting and relatively quick recovery. Also, the caliber, bullet selection and ballistics would make a fine hunting round for everything from distant plainsgame (especially eland) to elephant if a fellow likes Weatherby rifles and calibers and wanted to carry only one gun across the pond. My only complaints about the rifle were the stock was a bit too high for me to rapidly get down in the sights and it only held 3 rounds if the chamber was loaded.

Perry

Thanks for the help.

So I could pull in more opeins on sprfic rifles, I posted another question to the Big bore forum.

Thanks again

A .416 rem (it's what I own in M-70) or rigby is my preference hands down. Plenty of energy for up close work like elephant and buff and accuracy out to 250 yards. It's a hard caliber to beat for an all around dangerous game caliber which is what the question was.

Nothing like a 470 or 500 double in the tall grass

Wby= 416 Rigby necked up, or down.
Why not just get the original, and do it yourself on a CZ 550?

gs

I had a .416 Weatherby for a while, but only because it was the only left hand action I could buy in .416. I found that it was a great rifle but the calibre itself was too fast to allow bullets to set up properly (especially at close range) and therefore was not a great DG calibre....... once I started to download to Rigby ballistics it was much better. However a couple of close encounters with pissed off Buffalo made me realise that as a PH I needed a rifle that was a better charge stopper than the .416, so I took the rifle to Sabi Rifles in Nelspruit RSA and had it converted to .500 Jeffrey..... They did a wonderful job at a very good price.

Now its GREAT rifle and a GREAT calibre.

[ 09-13-2003, 10:37: Message edited by: shakari ]