I just finished Ron Thomson's book on elephant hunting, Mahohboh. It repeatedly talks about the screaming, trumpeting, gore and excessive gushing blood being spewn out of an elephants trunk when shot in the lungs. I haven't seen this in elephant hunting videos and trophy photos. How prevalent is this? Seems if it is true, it may detract from the elation of taking a trophy bull.

I also listened to Finn Aagard's book on tape where he says he thinks shooting an elephant is akin to murder. Your thoughts?

An elephants lungs are attached to the chest walls, so they cannot collapse when you put a bullet through them like most other animals. If you hit a big blood vessel in the lungs, it will run a couple of hundred metres at most (and usually alot less) and stand trumpeting and blowing a spray of blood everywhere as it attemps to keep the lungs clear. You are talking c 10 gal of blood sprayed up to 20' high into the trees.

I dislike the lung shot- too easy to miss anything vital. If you just hit the lungs and no big blood vessel, the ele will vanish and usually recover. Have recovered many many ele on our proficiency exam with several bullet wounds in the lungs- record being 30 but a dozen is not uncommon.

I like a heart shot if a brain shot isn't feasable. ele takes off in a flat run and often collapses in an upright sitting possition- perfect for photo's.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:

I like a heart shot if a brain shot isn't feasable. ele takes off in a flat run and often collapses in an upright sitting possition- perfect for photo's.

I like your thinking!

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Have recovered many many ele on our proficiency exam with several bullet wounds in the lungs- record being 30 but a dozen is not uncommon.

30! Wow

No way to know if it was 30, or 15 or 10 different hunters, or one guy with an AK and a 30 round mag....

quote:

blowing a spray of blood everywhere as it attemps to keep the lungs clear. You are talking c 10 gal of blood sprayed up to 20' high into the trees.

So I guess Ron was not BSing.

His book was the best Ele hunting book I have read. I read it just before I hunted my first elephant. I felt like I could see the brain right through the skull. He turned to leave, I swung the gun, squeezed the trigger and that was it.... Ron's book is great

Jason

404.. judging from the "pattern" of shots and either healed wounds or abcesses on the eles side I would think that it is mainly 1 guy with an AK, perhaps two at the most.

If it is a lone bullet that crops up, it is usually a .303 although we have found all sorts up to .450 cal

Ganyana, (and others)

What percentage of elephant you shoot have previous wounds from firearms?

Rgds,
FB

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
His book was the best Ele hunting book I have read. I read it just before I hunted my first elephant.

I personally believe his books should be made compulsory reading for for any hunter who might be contemplating his first Elephant hunt.

FB

I reckon a lot must depend on the area you hunt them in. Whilst I'm sure that Ganyana will probably hunt more Elephants in a year or two than I will in my lifetime, I've never found a previous wound in any of the ones I've hunted....... but most of mine have been in the Selous where there's no permanent human habitation.

In the zambezi valley, the ele population has sustained a fairly constant high poaching pressure since the end of the rhino war 1992/3.

Elephants living near the boundary are always picking up .303 bullets and pot legs from the tribesmen in the communal areas (the government sold 60,000 .303 rifles to tribesmen between 1989 and 1992).

We have not shot an elephant on the proficiency exam since 1998 that was not carrying lead

SBT,

As you will be hunting with Nixon, his preferred shot is the shoulder shot. A good solid will breakdown the bull as well as devestate the plumbing in board of the shoulder. He will not let you attemp the frontal brain shot. His preference.

Jeff

My experience is sample size of ONE so worthless compared to Ganyana's comments... but my PH liked the lung shot, the head was obscured, we were losing the wind and out of light. So a lung shot it was and I backed it up with another lung shot. The bull went down in about 100 yards, no trumpeting, no gore.

Must have gotten lucky and hit something vital.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
SBT,

As you will be hunting with Nixon, his preferred shot is the shoulder shot. A good solid will breakdown the bull as well as devestate the plumbing in board of the shoulder. He will not let you attemp the frontal brain shot. His preference.

Jeff

Nixon is hunting Malapati, couldnt that be kind of risky if the shoulder shot is bad ?

On my next Ele i hoping for a frontal shot.

That is amazing to hear about so many elephants carrying bullets.

Jeff,
I had not heard that about Nixon. I was (am) looking forward to a possible brain shot. Like Anton, I too think it would be risky to take a shoulder shot on an elephant hunted near a park border. I'm making inquiries now. But, when it is said and done, I guess I need to listen to my PH.

SBT

The problem comes over who shoots the elephant. If you tell a client to take a shoulder or heart shot , you can be pretty certain that the client will kill his own ele. If you let him take a rain shot, there is a fair chance that you will discover than an ele can turn on a ticky, make Ben Johnson look slow and vanish quicker than you can say "f875k my dog".

He is playing it safe. no mistakes, and no frantic back up shots from the PH trying to reach the heart from an odd angle or break a hip or spine it.

Thanks Ganyana.

Ganyana said it best. Malipati is a big concession. IMHO the brain shot while devestating when correctly applied is difficult and overrated. Perhaps ego driven? At any rate the last ele I shot with Nixon was .458 lott to the shoulder and 10 yards down. Sprint and finisher to the back of the head. Bad example of a brain shot was by a former friend. 13 shots later the had their bull. Not quite fair to the animal. Don't forget you muff it you still pay...

Jeff,
Do you recommend iron sights for this hunt?

My PH (Jonathan Hulme) didnt even discuss a heart/lung shot with me and i didnt want to take a shoulder shot either. I filmed my hunt and i also will try to sell the dvd and i didnt want to see a elephant running away spraying blood high up in the trees, that would cause even more problems with the bunny huggers here in Sweden. And for the rifle issue i would take a scoped 416 and double with iron sights - Jonny and i agreed that if we got up close to the them i would take it with the Krieghoff 500 and if we didnt i would take it with the scoped 416. If i only would have had the double with open sights i never would have taken that shot.

And i must say it felt very nice to bring down that great animal in a second, without suffering. EGO DRIVEN ? I dont understand that ?

AD

SBT, I use a Swarovski 1x4 safari grade. I am addicted to having a sight picture with a scope. And practice.... Yes CXCS, I am suggesting for the traveling hunter who may kill one or two trophy bulls in his life, the shoulder shot is safe and effective. I also do not sell videos of my own hunt...

I'm set up with a Ruger RSM in 416 Rigby with a Leupold 1.5-5x20 on QD mounts. Should work fine. My prefrence would be for a brain shot. I'd love to see it fall in its tracks and the thought of blood spewing evrywhere isn't a pretty one. But I'll do whatever Nixon says.

Not to offend anybody and this is strictly from my own perspective, but I cannot understand why somebody would not aspire to take a brain shot, especially if able to get close. It is the "classic" hunt, and capable of an instant kill. Deeper then this, perhaps it is the challenge and additional element of danger, maybe the fact that the shot is difficult, possibly the "confrontation" and visual connection with a frontal shot - but for me it would just not be "elephant hunting" if I were limited to body shots, and I'd just hunt buffalo or stalk plainsgame.

Ego...heck, I think anybody who hunts elephant has a bit of an ego!

Yes, a trophy bull hunt may involve taking a body shot if it is not possible to get closer and one must be prepared for this scenario, and also as I have learned with a PAC/meat hunt where one may not be able to be choosy on the shot selection. But in either case, I would set out with the objective of getting close for a brain shot.

I think many PH's "prefer" the H/L shot simply because it keeps more distance between the client/them and the elephant.

I have heard as many or more horror stories involving failed heart/lung shots as I have heard of failed brain shots. One in particular described on the forum I recall was Terry Carr some years back, shot at the crease in the shoulder and ended up with a problem, and afterwards was a bit miffed why it did not work.

IF I were set on a H/L shot, I'd have a low-power QR scope mounted.

Some die-hard elephant hunters might say that if you don't have the skills and confidence to shoot an elephant w/the brain shot, you have no business hunting elephant! I'd never say this of course!

Ugh, the blood spewing doesn't seem to occur on shoulder shots as far as I know. The setup you have sounds fine. Now burn 1oo rounds or so in practice. Offhand, off sticks, leaning. Field conditions, not off the bench. I also think you should relax mate, you will be ready and have a great time.

Jeff

Relax? Anticipation is half the fun!

I have a grand total of one elephant to my credit, and used the heart shot for it. A .450/400 Rt and Lft from the left side, and when he turned I gave him a Rt and Lft on the other side. He dropped within a few steps. I can happily say that my marksmanship was very good that day, as the groups were within two inches of one another (even a fool gets lucky now and then).

I must confess a certain sadness after taking such a fine beast, a sadness not felt after taking any other head of game. Aagaard obviously felt a little stronger about it. Given the chance (read $$$), I'll hunt another.

i must say that i FAR prefer a brainshot , all that gore and "flopping around" is awful..its a hard shot to pull off and often if it fails we end up doing a heartlung anyway but its never as pleasant or cleancut...

i think everyone has that certain sadness , its what makes us human , i certainly do ...every time ...

I've often heard people say you shouldn't attempt a brain shot until you have some experience. So, how do you get experience unless you try it? There always has to be a first time.

quote:

I've often heard people say you shouldn't attempt a brain shot until you have some experience. So, how do you get experience unless you try it? There always has to be a first time.

right on ...just get nice and close , and get right between the earholes ...ignore the external points of reference ...dont want to hijack this thread and turn it into a "how to" brainshot thread thats been hammered

I never hunted elephant but I feel that great and wonderful animal deserves to be hunted up close and FACED for a brain shot.I would not have it any other way.

There are a multitude of reasons why the brain shot is preferred. This is only one of them.

I would do everything I could get into position for the brain-shot. There is nothing like watching your elephant hitting the ground as you come down from the recoil.

Jason

sure isn't