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Tell me something new.

I was following a guy yesterday that suddenly stops dead on a two-lane road. Then just as suddenly proceeds, turns on the right-hand turn signal, then proceeds to turn left at the next intersection.

Reparations is the answer in South Africa.

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Thanks Alf. Hopefully we will see more of this type of post.

Perhaps we all need to take at least as much interest in what is happening to Africa as we do in what caliber and which bullet to shoot.

I remember when Apartied was in control..RSA was a safe place, most everyone black and white lived in co-existence, the streets, houses were always painted white and the clean, flowers were everywhere, it was a land of beauty, crime was under control..Much different from the RSA I see today with hate, distrust, crime and filth and the atrocities that Amercian politics and holiwood complained about are 100 fold worse now than then, but will our politicians and Hollywood come clean, not a chance, we'll allow first...We should bow our heads in desgrace....

My prediction is AIDs will be the salvation of the white African people, and no amount of money, American do gooders, or anything else can or will change the tribal practices of the indigenous of Africa...I would bet the percentage of AIDs in new RSA is many more times what we have been lead to believe...The black men under apartied that I knew had much more then than now..They had some Gov. money, better housing and a lot of things and they have told me this themselves....

I am sure some atrocities did take place towards the black man that should not have, I know they did, thats a human thing, humans do that to each other bit the point is that its still happening and things are hundred times worse....None and I mean none of the people are making a good living, none of them are content, many are hungry and crime and murder is at an all time high, business are going under one after another...Sad situation. I feel for the African, both black and white, and in all honesty mostly the White Africaner who built a paradise and lost it...The Savage will eat it and thats the rest of the story.

You know, Ray is right. Look at every African country that was a European Colony then and now. Can one person give me an example of a country that is more prosperous, governed more equitably and has a better standard of living in this post-colonial age? The tribal philosophies and influences that cause the genocide and corruption in Africa today is much worse that aparthied ever was! It's too bad the do-gooders and lilly-gilders here in the States and European Commonwealth aren't up in arms and on their soapboxes today ranting about it. They are probably embarassed that they eventually got what they wanted and are horrified at what they have wrought. It's better to slink away and take up a new cause than admit you were wrong, roll up your sleeves and try and help make a bad situation better.

Botswana is not doing too badly, as they are buoyed up by their diamond mines. But they have about the highest HIV prevalence rate of any country, with the adult population estimated to be about 35% HIV Ab positive ... ... Did, the colonial days teach them to have a different girlfiend/boyfriend each week? I think not. Just what form of buggery is going on in Botswana?

Thanks for the the latest, Alf.

[ 08-10-2003, 21:26: Message edited by: DagaRon ]

Originally posted by Will:
Tell me something new.

I was following a guy yesterday that suddenly stops dead on a two-lane road. Then just as suddenly proceeds, turns on the right-hand turn signal, then proceeds to turn left at the next intersection.

Sounds like driving in New Jersey here in the States.

I think you're dreaming if you think AIDS is going to have any effect. The folks live to 40+ years with aids, plenty of time to bear multiple offspring.

Will

Yes, there is plenty of time for the current adults to have lots of offspring, but those offspring are HIV positive from birth, and won't live to reproduce. Botswana's population is actually falling right now, and in another decade is going to really crash due to a lack of young adults able to reproduce.

SA Population Expected to Drop By 26 Percent By 2050


South African Press Association (Johannesburg)
July 22, 2003


The population of HIV/Aids-ravaged southern Africa is expected to decline by 22 percent by 2050, according to a recent study.

The latest world population data sheet of the United States-based Population Reference Bureau estimates South Africa's population will drop from 44-million this year to 35,1 million in 2025, and to 32,5 million in 2050 -- a 26 percent decline.

It gives an estimated percentage of South Africans between the ages of 15 and 49 with HIV/Aids at the end of 2001 as 20.1 percent, and life expectancy at present mortality rates at 53 for men and 54 for women.

Botswana's population is also expected to go down by 43 percent from the current 1,5 million to 0,9 million by 2050, while slight increases are expected in Namibia and Lesotho's populations, the PRB report says.

An estimated 38.8 percent of Botswana's citizens have HIV/Aids.

South Africa's current rate of natural increase -- the birth rate minus the death rate -- is the second lowest on the continent at 0.9 percent, second only to Botswana's 0.3 percent.

Central Africa is expected to be the fastest-growing region in the first half of the 21st century. It will grow to 193 percent compared to its current size by 2050.

Western Africa follows, increasing to 142 percent of its 2003 population.

"The population of HIV/Aids-ravaged southern Africa is projected to fall by 22 percent, a decline that no one would have predicted in the recent past," the report says.

In global terms, the PRB expects India to overtake China as the worlds most populous country by 2050, with 1,628-billion people (1,069-billion in 2003) compared to China's 1,394-billion (1,289-billion in 2003).

The US is expected to remain in third place with 422 million citizens by 2050 -- it currently has 292-million.

Nigeria, currently in ninth place with a population of 134 million, is expected to more than double to 307 million by 2050 for sixth place.

Other African countries expected to be in the top 20 by 2050 are the Democratic Republic of Congo with 181 million people (now 56,5 million), Ethiopia with 173 million (now 71 million), Egypt with 127 million (now 72 million), Sudan 84 million (now 38,1 million), and Uganda with 82 million (now 25,3 million).

Countries expected by the PRB to drop out of the top 20 are Germany, France, and Thailand.

PRB Website

Popnet Website

[ 08-11-2003, 04:13: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

T. Carr, with the numbers that you posted, I think there might be more problems before 2050. Namely starvation and lack of water for all of those millions of people. It looked to me when I was in Namibia that there was little water there for the population that was there now. Just like out west with the older population going out there to live in the winter where will all of the water come from for people to live there? What about the millions that we here in the States are told about that starve to death every year, where will they get food let alone water to survive on?

Mike,

You're correct. Ethiopia has a famine every 5 years. They can't feed 71 million now. How are they going to feed 173 million in 2050?

There was a very good article a few weeks ago in the New York Times about starvation in Africa. The reporter interviewed a starving family in Malawi. That family had 12 children. I'm sorry, but until those people learn to control their own outrageous birth rate, let them starve. Billions of dollars of foreign aid are being sent to these coutries to keep alive a culture that is their own worst enemy. We are artificially supporting a population boom that will, in the long run, be responsible for the social and ecological destruction of an entire continent. Civil wars will only increase as resources decrease. Deforestation and desertification are the natural consequences of too many people struggling with too few resources. It is not the rest of the world's problem. Let Mother Nature take her course.

Regards,

Terry

[ 08-11-2003, 06:17: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

Africa has her own way of controling africans. In the past its been drought famine and now its aids, drought and famine. Im more interested in the effects on the fauna and flora because in the old days the ak47 wasnt so available. The black african was much better off under colonial rule for most of the white boys had a bit of remorse with the passing of both people and animals. This is not the case with the black african in general. Since we cant go back in time I only hope nature does her work before all the great animals are gone.

Ray, Terry,
Until the aids virus develops into a 2 week strain, it will never help africa in any of our lifetimes, and I despair whether it will return in my son's lifetime.

Alf,
I look at those pics and remember the area. I used to hunt in the Hoedspruit area before the airbase was put in. That was the beginning of the end for a lifestyle and an era.
I tried to buy the farm Sandringham around 25 years back, but for various reasons the deal fell through.

I agree with Ray and Terry. AIDS isn't necessarily the killer it is the other maladies that strike people with a suppressed immune systems, malaria, pnemonia, etc. Yes people with AIDS can live a long time with the proper medical treatment, but I fear that isn't available to the African population as a whole.

Let nature take it's course, and we need to stay out of it, period.

No drugs, no aid to the Mugabes of this world, let nature control and save that continent.

s

Without medical treatment 80% of aids infected people will be dead in 5 years. Aids is easily transmitted at birth, but it is also easily prevented with drugs.

If you have drugs.

If 30% of the adult population will die over the next 5 years, that means LOTS of orphans, who will end up as street urchins. Their life expectancy in a world of aids is not terribly high.

The 30% number also assumes no new infections, which is unlikely, of course. I would expect drugs could make a difference, but most aids cocktails require very strict schedules of taking multiple drugs -- not something I see as probable in many African cultures.

That is the reason I find the population numbers above unrealistic. JMO, Dutch.

[ 08-11-2003, 23:18: Message edited by: Dutch ]