Gentlemen:

Can you effectively reduce felt recoil by porting a rifle barrel as opposed to installing a muzzle brake? If so, does porting have barrel errosion problems? Would porting effect accuracy? The calibers in question are the .416 Remington and the .416 Rigby.

Have you had good felt recoil reduction results installing mercury tubes?

Best wishes for the New Year.
Buliwyf

Buliwyf,

I have no experience with porting, may be some of our friends here might give you an idea on that.

But, installing a muzzle brake or adding weight by installing mercury tubes will reduce the recoil.

Personally, I do not like either idea.

The emuzzle brake tends to increase the muzzle blast quite a bit, and don't listen to anyone telling you there are "quiet" muzzle brakes. No such thing exists.

For general hunting, especially for carrying all day in the bush, I would rather put up with a bit more recoil than more weight to carry.

If I may, I suggest you try shooting your rifles with a few relatively reduced loads, and then work up to the full power load you intend to hunt with.

It is surprising how many people will adapt to this.

Mind you, some people seem to never get used to the recoil, and we generally install muzzle brakes for them.

I do better with a heavier rifle and I like mercury tubes in the stock. Maybe a muzzle brake, depending on how much recoil reduction you want.

At one time I owned a 338 Win. Mag. that had been Mag-Na-Ported. You could actually see impact on a target around 200 yards or farther as the porting helped control muzzle rise, however IT WAS VERY LOUD!!! I never wanted to shoot the rifle without ear protection, I mean even hunting.

Currently I own a Rigby 470 double with two 3/4 lb mercury recoil reducers and while the guns weight is 12.9 lbs the recoil is very nice relative to a 470.

My wife owns a Browning A-Bolt with the Boss system and while the Boss itself works with harmonics of the barrel, and does seem to work the muzzle brake portion also seems to work for her. This is the limit of my experience with this stuff.

Good Hunting, "Z"

Saeed is right!

If you are recoil shy, use less gun. A PH will always consider a client with a rifle equipped with a muzzle break with suspicion! You are shooting on live animals, shot placement is paramount, caliber is not.

Besides, a shot from a rifle with muzzle break will not only make you and the people around deaf, it will also cause a lot of dust. You can not see what is going on after the shot.

If nessecary, use mercury tubes but remember: gun bearers is out of fashion nowadays, you have to carry your rifle yourself.

I have not hunted with the big bores,so what i say is based on that. I have a 300 WBY that has been mag-ported,it is louder recoil doesn't seem that bad,I have just in the last day or two had the chance to fire the 450 Nitro Rugger No-1 that also is mag-ported,this is a lite rifle and with the full tilt boogie rounds,IT GETS YOUR ATTENTION
so based on that I would say a big bore in a lite rifle would more than likely beneifit from it.But wear ear protection.

Any type of porting or muzzle brake will significantly reduce muzzle rise and recoil therefore you can get back on target quicker. The downside is that you and the people you are with will experience real hearing loss. Every PH or guide I have talked to has had bad experiences with clients using ported or braked guns.

Your hunting companions will like you more if you just drop back a caliber instead of porting a cannon. And as someone suggested bullet placement is key rather than great horse power.

I just don't use any recoil reducing device if I am hunting with someone else.

I am with everyone else here. Do not use a break. It is not worth it. Drop back one caliber.

I put a mercury recoil reducer in my 450 Dakota. The difference was quite noticeable. I think the gun is better balanced now and recoil is very manageable.

Go with the recoil reducer.

[ 01-04-2003, 01:04: Message edited by: Buffalobwana ]

With the mercury recoil reducers, does anyone know if the reduction in recoil is actually due to the movement of the mercury in its tube rather than the fact that the device adds weight to the rifle?

Hi Buliwyf,
You would be far better of getting a good recoil pad over the other two choices. That way your rifle will be shootable without the weight change or the noise level of the muzzle brake. If you want to add a bit of weight you would be better of doing it in the location that will make the balance of your rifle the best,which isn't always where the mercury recoil reducer is supposed to go.
Take care,
470 Mbogo

Aye-aye,
Use no brake and no extra weight except to balance the gun.

DO use a good recoil pad. That is a winner every time.

I can live with a 7 pound 375 H&H or an 11 pound 500 A-Square.

The 375 H&H is all you need for power. If it is any lighter than that, then it is too light in the loafers to handle well. Make it 10 pounds if recoil is a problem, and that will cure it.

The 500 A-Square is the ultimate stopper, and 11 pounds is the greatest load that most of us can lug around all day.

Best of all is a 9 pound 416 Rigby. This makes my heart sing. Wild thing. Sweet Thang. Bang Thang.

I think Mercury recoil tubes do nothing significant except add weight. I will never need one of those.

I will never need a muzzle brake in the field, but they are nice for working up loads at the bench before the final field zero.

First, reduced loads to see if you need anything...

second, a merc tube if going to add about 9.5 oz, net to your gun, in the butt.. you'll need to add weight in the front to make it balance, perhaps. I like them, but they also have this funny "slap" at the end of the shot, like an m16 recoil spring. Yes, the do work, easy to explain a 1: they add weight, and 2: energy travels faster through denser material, therefore the merc hits you first, then the energy NOT in the merc hits you. But, my 500j aint getting one to start.

third, mussle brakes are effective and loud as hell, hate em... if you MUST have one at the range, have it removable, please

fourth, if the gun is nearly shootable to you, try a new pad, have the gun fitted (it might be too short or too much effective cast (huge cheek piece)

lastly, you can tape golf weight to your gun (yeah, seems stupid) to find a weight that might be comfortable to shoot, and it's balance.

good luck
jeffe

I agree with the others who have said they hate muzzle brakes. You, the shooter, may benefit, but anyone with you will suffer greatly from your blast.

In addition to what the others have said about methods of reducing the effect of recoil, check out the special recoil-reducing pads that go between the gun and your shoulder. I have one I bought more than a decade ago, and I use it all the time at the benchrest when I shoot anything larger than a 6mm. These pads are made of some kind of silicone material that both absorbs recoil and spreads it over a larger area of your shoulder. Using such a pad, I can shoot a 375 H&H repeatedly from the bench without discomfort.

I also recommend that you wear gloves and as heavy clothing as possible when you shoot any hard-kicking gun. All of these help minimize the effect of recoil on the shooter.

Buliwyf,
Just to take the subject a little further. If your planning to shoot your 416 at the factory velocities of 2400 fps the recoil will be very managable. With a straight stock design such as the McMillan express stock along with a Pachmayer triple magnum and a gun weight of 10lbs. you will be surprised how comfortable a big bore can be. Take a look at my site and go to Comparing the Big Bores, look at the recoil charts for the 416 Rigby and the 470 Mbogo. The videos section has a video of me shooting my 470 Mbogo with a 500 grain bullet at 2500 fps for four shots. The rifle is set up as described and weighs 10.25 lbs. Big bores can be made very shootable. Start with reduced loads and work your comfort level increase over time.
Best of luck with which ever you use,
470 Mbogo

Gentlemen,

My brother-in-law and I were working .375 H&H loads and went to the range. A fellow next to us had new Savage Safari in 458 Win Mag with the muzzle brake that could be turned off and on with a simple twist. This system that Savage works quite well. With brake turned on the 458 had the recoil of a light load 338 Win Mag., but the gent was shooting 500 gr. solids. I have a similar rifle, a Savage 116 Weatherwarrior LH in 338 Win mag with a 18 1/2 inch barrel, plus another 2 1/2 for the muzzle brake. This rifle has the recoil of a 30-06. The nice thing about the system, you can turn the muzzle brake off when your in the field, and turn the brake on when developing load from the bench rest. It's a system that has worked for me.

CK,
Does your rifle shoot to the same POI when you turn off the brake and does the accuracy of the load change when you turn off the brake? When I first tried a muzzle brake on my 416 Rigby the load I used change POI by 4 inches. The thing was so load and the concussion under the shooter shed was bad. I took it off and that's the way it's stayed.
Take care,
470 Mbogo

I like the idea of a threaded brake. Start out with it on, and take it off for hunting, and practicing offhand.

Of course make sure the stock fits properly, and hasn't shrunk while waiting to be sold.

Weight is always good.

Also kickeze makes a nice pad, and I like the recoil pad you put on your shoulder, to spread the recoil out. Wonder if a skeet jacket might not be a good idea...

DR S

Porting and muzzle brakes are two of the same animal. Both work on the same physics principal, which is to redirect the direction of high pressure gas, to counteract recoil. In the process, because of this dispersment of gasses, the gun becomes louder. Muzzle brakes work extremely well. People object to the noise because of them. There is no such thing as a "quiet" muzzle brake. The release of high pressure gas creates noise, period. I like muzzle brakes, and I'm not offended by them. Either at the range, or in the field. If noise is going to be present, the individual that is going to be subjected to this noise has the responsibility to protect himself from any damage this could inflict on his hearing. When I go to the range I wear protection as if a shooter next to me was going to set up and shoot a .50 Browning, because he just might! People with "loud" guns have as much right to shoot as people with "quiet" ones. Assuming there is such a thing as a quiet gun. Bill T.

I think much depends on the caliber of the rifle and the type of shooting one does. I don't care for brakes but I can see where they might enable someone to use his bigbore more effectively. I don't use Magna-Porting but I know the value of straightback recoil. When speaking of true big bore rifles, oftentimes the installation of a mercury tube serves to offset that nose-heavy feeling, maintaining rifle balance between the hands, which, in my view, is a worthwhile trade off in extra weight. Where I vary most from the others is that I refuse to hunt with a rig much over 10 pounds, scoped and loaded, regardless of caliber.

470 Mbogo,

Very good question: The muzzle brake on my Savage is over sized from the .338 bore at the end on the barrel? With the brake turned off my rifle shoots a inch to a inch & half high. The quick fix before heading out to the field is to fire a few rounds down range with the brake turned off and adjust my scope to the correct elevation gain.

MY PREFERNECE IS TO USE A MERCURY RECOIL TUBE IN THE FOREARM AND TO ADD A CARTRIDGE CARRIER TO THE STOCK. WITH BIG BORES YOU CAN ADD UP TO 9 ROUNDS IN THE AMMO CARRIER TO OFSET THE EXTRA WEIGHT IN THE MERCURY TUBE IN THE FOREARM. I WOULD MAKE SURE THE MERCURY TUBE IS GLUED INTO THE STOCK MINE SHIFTED DURING THE FLIGHT AND AT CERTAIN TIMES IT WOULD RATTLE. THE TRACKER WOULD REALLY GIVE ME A DIRT LOOK WHEN IT DID. WASTE MONEY AND TRY SEVERAL OF THE RECOIL REDUCING PADS SUCH AS DECELERATORS, PAST, KICK EZE ETC. SOME WORK BETTER ON SOME CALIBERS THAN OTHERS IN MY OPINION. AS AN EXAMPLE IF YOU TAKE A REMINGTON 700 STAINLESS IN A PLASTIC STOCK IN 375 H&H (IT WEIGHTS 7.5 LBS), ADD SCOPE, RINGS, SLING, AND PUT THE 11 OZ MERCURY TUBE IN THE FORE ARM, A DECELERATOR RECOIL PAD AND THE AMMO CARRIER FULL OF 270G AMMO ON THE STOCK PUT 3 ROUNDS IN THE MAGAZINE, THE GUN WILL WEIGHT 10.75 LBS. IF YOU DONT MIND THE WEIGHT IT IS VERY TAME. SOME PEOPLE WILL SAY ITS TOO HEAVY.

P.S. MY 416 TAYLOR WEIGHTS 11 POUNDS WITHOUT THE MERCURY TUBE. SO AFTER YOU OUTFIT THE GUN IT MAY BE AS HEAVY AS YOU WANT TO TOTE.

Like Nickudu, I don't want to pack anything that weighs over 10 pounds. That has caused me to part with several guns that had to weigh more in order to be shootable, namely my 500 A-Square and 577N.E. double rifle.
I had a 458 Lott that weighed considerably less and it wore a KDF with a threaded cap to cover the threads when the brake was removed. I'd say the brake was effective, but the noise was deafening, even with double ear protection(plugs & muffs). The blast would almost blow my hat off! No thanks, not for me. I can and do wear ear protection in the field, but no PH or trackers I have hunted with do, and shouldn't. They need to hear what's going on!
In the end, the best way to deal with too much recoil is to not deal with it. Use the best recoil pad, add a bit of weight if the gun is light or if all else fails, use a smaller caliber.

Forget the muzzle brake. The gun club I belong to is thinking about banning them from the range due to requests by other members. I installed C&H Research’s mercury inserts in my .416 Rigby and both of our .375 H&H’s and they work. They allow you to shoot more which results in being more familiar with your rifle thus more accurate. Lawdog

Can't you take the mercury recoil reducers out once you are comfortable shooting the gun from the bench, so that the weight is reduced while hunting? I know my ph did. I have one in a Model 70 .416 and it feels like shooting a .30-06. I was planning on taking the reducer out on my next trip over. Please tell me if this is not a good idea.

Quint,
I suppose you might remove the tube but it may prove more difficult than might be expected, depending on how and where it was installed. Also, with unit(s) positioned at the butt, removal may adversely effect overall balance, which is not a good result.
Would you happen to know the brand of mercury-reducer that gave such dramatic results with the .416? I've not seen claims for reductions exceeding 5 to 10%.

[ 01-06-2003, 15:58: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

My 338 has a threaded break, which I don't take off when hunting. My PH always says bring that 338 it is a killer. He dosen't mind the blast as he prepares for it and so do the trackers, because they have been told about the blast. I wear electronic shooter protection (ESP) any time I hunt, they also enhance the sound prior to the shot. I have lost some of my hearing thru my own neglect and don't intend to lose any more that way. You my think you are OK without ear proection but guess what! The ESP system is about $750, that is not much vs double that for Bino or scopes, eh. If you can afford the big bores you sure can affor to protect your hearing.

[ 01-06-2003, 16:57: Message edited by: The Old Hunter ]

Old Hunter

The avg. muzzlebrake is 155 DBs. The best Hearing protection is about 30 DBs. You still hear 125 or so Dbs when you shoot. 110 Dbs. is upper limit for hearing damage. 115-117Dbs is the pain threshold. I bet you are still loosing your hearing, even with the ear protection. I wonder what putting your fingers in your ear does?

Gator, what ever floats your boat. ESP reduce the Decabals to 90 which is normal conservation level. I don't sell these things just use them and sharing the info with other posters. Have a quiet day.

[ 01-06-2003, 20:03: Message edited by: The Old Hunter ]

I have all my big calibers Mag Na Ported.
It works and I do not find the noise any where near like all the muzzle brakes I have tried and removed already.
The Mag Na Porting will allow you to get off a second shot much quicked if one is needed and it will reduce felt recoil some althought not as well as a muzzle brake.
The next thing I am not afraid to wear is a Past Recoil Shield. They work and take a lot of the fight out of the dog. Some folks are afraid they will not look "safari" enough if they have one on.
I wore mine while hunting birds in Paraguay even though I was shooting twin 20 ga. Benelli's. At the end of three days shooting and 70 boxes I did not have a mark on me.
I do not like the Mercury goodies as others have already stated they put the rifle out of balance.
Many of my customers have had me put lead in the forearms to better balance their particular rifle and to help eat up some of the recoil.

What about using Browning's "Reactar shooting pad"?

Has anybody used it? and does it work?