My comments are about upcoming hunts and not the lion debacle.

I am hearing conflicting information on the situation on the ground. Some of the issues are as follows:

1- Dangerous game hunting is closed country wide while others say it is only around Hwange.

2- No permission will be granted to hunt DG while others say that permission will be granted on a case by case basis.

3- Some say TR-2's are no longer in use. Others says they are.

Does anyone REALLY know?

F%$k me, I am getting tired of this.

Right their with ya partner. A few more days and I am going to open my schedule back up. If I wanted this kind of SHIT, I would have stayed with my ex-wife.

Jeff

Larry & Jeff - Really feel bad for ya guys at the moment, hunting Africa is suppose to be fun!!!

I hope everything comes right for you both, and others in the same position. Good luck to you all!!!

Regards,

To be clear, this all lies at the feet of Zim. National Parks. CMS is doing everything in their power to clarify the issues.

Jeff

!00% agreed.

The NP guy I e mailed yesterday did respond to me that he had forwarded my inquiry to the appropriate party.

Larry - I am going to Save at the end of the month. Leon Du Plessis says the ban is only around Hwange. They are still hunting DG with no interference. The killed a lion last week.

quote:

Originally posted by Markschu:
Larry - I am going to Save at the end of the month. Leon Du Plessis says the ban is only around Hwange. They are still hunting DG with no interference. The killed a lion last week.

Not exactly the case. Some operators are not aware of the latest hi jinks...

Jeff

Which, by the way, continue today.

Meeting should be wrapping up?

quote:

Originally posted by Markschu:
Larry - I am going to Save at the end of the month. Leon Du Plessis says the ban is only around Hwange. They are still hunting DG with no interference. The killed a lion last week.

I always knew leon du plessis was an evil lion killer :-)

I get everybody wants their 15 minutes of fame and media coverage on the back on cecil the murdered lion.
But this bs of screwing with hunters needs to stop. Typical lets screw hunters who are the only ones who actually care and visit 80 percent of the wild areas in zim.

For all the great hunt reports of the Zambezi valley, save or bubye - they are not exactly set up for photo tourism. Not the ngorongoro crater.

Something is seriously wrong when hunters have to call zim to get make sure all paperwork is proper.

Hunting has function thru hyper inflation, farms seizures, save ownership issues but now cecil the lion and desperate attempt at publicity is screwing with high dollar hunts. End of the day there is limits on what people will bear to go on vacation.

Mike

Here is the latest as I know it:

The guy at Parks responded to my e mail but did not answer simple questions such as is dangerous game hunting open in Dande.

There is a ban in DG hunting countrywide. HOWEVER, the Director will issue authority on a case by case basis. Game scouts must go on all approved hunts. I am told but, but have no evidence , that certain local NP offices have the authority to issue permits. It is from one of these offices that we hope to obtain our permits.

Africa being Africa, I would not count on anything. It may well change which could be good or bad.

AS I TYPE THIS, I JUST GOT A TEXT. THE BAN IS LIFTED EXCEPT FOR A FEW PROPERTIES. THIS COMES FROM A VERY WELL CONNECTED SOURCE.

Just got another email from Save. They report all is good there. No bans or permit issues.

I have a horrible copy of an official letter . I am having someone put it on Photobucket. As soon as they do, I will post it.

This is actually good news. Business more or less as usual. For us doing legitimate hunts there is very little new. And best of al; Johnny boy has been band.

Good hunting

Carl Frederik

The second to the last statement is interesting. I wonder how they will determine which collared animal is iconic or not before it can be taken!

Thanks, Larry.

Larry

I thought it was overall a pretty good response.

They only targeted the individual properties that were involved in the "Cecil" incident for closure. I assume those properties listed other than Antionette may have been implicated in "quota swapping" if indeed there was no lion quota available in Antionette. They could have taken a harder stand and shut down Matetsi 3 & 5, Forestry and Tjolocho but wisely did not.

Granted the Director General is going to be busy writing authorization letters for DG hunts but it looks like if you receive that you should be good to go in Dande.

Thanks Larry for posting this...

Lets all keep our eyes open for any changes to this. As we all know it can change again in an instant.

I have heard from my outfitter and we are good to go.....so far...

And if all of us who should buy Buzz and Myles a beer at the conventions for their efforts actually do so, they will be 8 hrs into their flight home before they can spell their own names!

Whatever "assurances" you have have received from your various outfitters, it is only through the hard work of my good friend Larry Shores and CMS that have enough confidence to leave August 29 to hunt Dande. The situation could still be fluid but I think we are ok.

Deepest thanks to Larry and Myles.

To to rest of you Caveat Emptor.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Ferrall:
And if all of us who should buy Buzz and Myles a beer at the conventions for their efforts actually do so, they will be 8 hrs into their flight home before they can spell their own names!

Myles in particular was very involved. I am confident it was as stressful for them as it was for us.

I especially like the fact that Johnny Boy is being sanctioned for stirring the shit.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Ferrall:
And if all of us who should buy Buzz and Myles a beer at the conventions for their efforts actually do so, they will be 8 hrs into their flight home before they can spell their own names!

Myles in particular was very involved. I am confident it was as stressful for them as it was for us.

And don't leave out Louis Muller, he is the first person I called when I heard about this very early yesterday morning and didn't feed me BS, he was already at Zim Parks trying to work it out and called to give progress reports, I know he spent two days working on this, Milo probably did too, and the stress was apparent in his voice (could have been crappy Zim cell service, but he sounded stressed). Louis called me from Zim Parks this morning as soon as an agreement had been reached asking me to help spread the word and the relief in his voice was apparent. I'll buy Louis (and Myles)a beer or what ever he wants to drink, more than one.

I am not going to Zim this year but I am damned glad this got worked out...and glad someone got sanctioned, it was way overdue.

Here is a statement from ZPHGA I received a bit earlier:

Zimbabwe Professional Hunters & Guides Association
MUKUVISI WOODLANDS COMPLEX TEL: +263-4-702402
HILLSIDE RD/ GLENARA AVE SOUTH EMAIL: zphga1@gmail.com
HARARE soaz1@mweb.co.zw
ZIMBABWE Website: www.soaz.net


Press release
7th June 2015

Uplift of suspension on hunting Lion, Leopard and Elephant

On the 2nd of August 2015 the Ministry of Environment imposed a temporary suspension of Lion, Leopard and Elephant hunting in Zimbabwe. The goal was to gain clarity and understand the positions of stakeholders positions following the recent allegedly illegal killing of two Lions near Hwange National park.

We are pleased to inform you that, following some useful discussion between operators and the relevant Zimbabwean authorities, the suspension has now been uplifted throughout the country with the exceptions of Antoinette and Antoinette Farm, Railway Farm 31 and Umuguza and Kusile Rural District Council properties where all sport hunting has been suspended pending the outcome of court processes.

This incident has highlighted the needed reforms agreed by all stakeholders at the Hunting workshop held 8 days prior to the killing of Cecil.
There are some conditions that have to be met at this time:

• Some additional regulations and paperwork have been introduced to reinforce accountability of operators to the National Parks and Wildlife Management Authority.


• Lion, Leopard and Elephant hunts will be compulsorily attended by a member of the Authority at the expense of the land owner.

• No further hunting of collared iconic animals will be allowed.

• Individuals involved in illegal hunting activities will be banned from hunting in Zimbabwe for life.

ZPHGA would like to thank the Government of Zimbabwe for the efficient manner in which they evaluated the situation, consulted with stakeholders and for considering and adapting the proposals put forward.

We apologize for the confusion and inconvenience caused to fellow hunters in Zimbabwe at this time and for those that are scheduled to visit in 2015.

ZPHGA would further like to thank those that have supported Zimbabwe in the past and those who are prepared to continue to do so.



Chairman
ZPHGA

Here is a press release from ZPHGA that I received earlier, the date is wrong but the rest is accurate:

Zimbabwe Professional Hunters & Guides Association
MUKUVISI WOODLANDS COMPLEX TEL: +263-4-702402
HILLSIDE RD/ GLENARA AVE SOUTH EMAIL: zphga1@gmail.com
HARARE soaz1@mweb.co.zw
ZIMBABWE Website: www.soaz.net


Press release
7th June 2015

Uplift of suspension on hunting Lion, Leopard and Elephant

On the 2nd of August 2015 the Ministry of Environment imposed a temporary suspension of Lion, Leopard and Elephant hunting in Zimbabwe. The goal was to gain clarity and understand the positions of stakeholders positions following the recent allegedly illegal killing of two Lions near Hwange National park.

We are pleased to inform you that, following some useful discussion between operators and the relevant Zimbabwean authorities, the suspension has now been uplifted throughout the country with the exceptions of Antoinette and Antoinette Farm, Railway Farm 31 and Umuguza and Kusile Rural District Council properties where all sport hunting has been suspended pending the outcome of court processes.

This incident has highlighted the needed reforms agreed by all stakeholders at the Hunting workshop held 8 days prior to the killing of Cecil.
There are some conditions that have to be met at this time:

• Some additional regulations and paperwork have been introduced to reinforce accountability of operators to the National Parks and Wildlife Management Authority.


• Lion, Leopard and Elephant hunts will be compulsorily attended by a member of the Authority at the expense of the land owner.

• No further hunting of collared iconic animals will be allowed.

• Individuals involved in illegal hunting activities will be banned from hunting in Zimbabwe for life.

ZPHGA would like to thank the Government of Zimbabwe for the efficient manner in which they evaluated the situation, consulted with stakeholders and for considering and adapting the proposals put forward.

We apologize for the confusion and inconvenience caused to fellow hunters in Zimbabwe at this time and for those that are scheduled to visit in 2015.

ZPHGA would further like to thank those that have supported Zimbabwe in the past and those who are prepared to continue to do so.



Chairman
ZPHGA

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I especially like the fact that Johnny Boy is being sanctioned for stirring the shit.

That bastard should be rotting in a Zim jail for all his hypocrisy!

I think a reasonable outcome for us taking all into account.

I know Myles has been hard at this, and a big thank you to all whom
were involved in this process and dialogue with Parks.

To have a game scout on each hunt is no big deal,may cost us a little more
,although in The places I have hunted in Zim we have always had one parks guy and sometimes a community rep as well.

So business as usual. Great! See you in Zim next year guys.


Cheers

Nick

I feel for the Zim outfitters and the hunters hunting in Zim over the next 60-90 days. While I hope the situation is actually "sorted", I would personally be prepared for the possibility that the rules on the ground may continue to shift and change, e.g., looking into whether the Global Rescue security service would cover a situation where the rules changed in midstream. Incredibly sad, this entire incident and the outfall from the incident are going to hurt the Zim hunting community while they were still dealing with the affects of the ivory importation ban, the changing situation in the Save, etc. Tragic.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I especially like the fact that Johnny Boy is being sanctioned for stirring the shit.

Yes, that is a welcome surprise.

The problem with this whole hunting is, the Antis are luring in the shadows and waiting for any opportunity to strike.
We cannot be vigilant and looking over our shoulder 24 hrs a day. It's impossible.
It is down to nitty gritty will full frontal attack.
We have to attack, put them on the spot and tell them very publicly " If you don't put boots on the ground, you are nothing, but talking head "