The only experience I have with this calibre is reading about it(taylor) who said it suffered from excessive weight which may have caused hunters to either choose a lighter calibre or go all the way to 577nitro.

Is this still the case? Is it any more popular next to the other nitroXp's these days?

It always seemd to me to be a good compromise but this does not necessarly sell something.

Karl.

I have three double rifles above .40 caliber.

Westley Richards .450/.400 3 1/4" 9# 6 oz.
Searcy .470 10# 5 oz.
Cogswell & Harrison .475 3 1/4" 11# 9 oz.

I believe that Butch Searcy builds his .500 N.E. doubles at less than 12 #'s.

Having hunted in Africa (and in the hottest times of the year), I found that an almost 12 # rifle wasn't a joy to tote, but if you'll let an assistant tracker or skinner carry it periodically, it's no problem at all.

IMHO, if you have a .500 N.E. that weighs much less than 11 #'s and if you shoot it much, you'll wish you had some more weight. My .470 with Butch's heavy loads (500 grains at 2250 fps) really gets my attention. Ray found a load that shoots 500 grain bullets a little less than 2100 fps and still regulates. I may just try that. The .475 with 480 grain bullets at 2120 fps is a joy to shoot and the .450/.400 with 400 grain bullets at 2150 is like a .30/06 and 180 grain bullets.

I say that I can tote a 12 # rifle, but the little W-R will be my firearm of choice this summer in Tanzania. It's inconsequential to carry and shoot and plenty for buffalo.

My Searcy .500 nitro comes in at 11 pounds exactly, if I recall correctly. It is not difficult to carry all day.

500grains:

Compared to other doubles that you have shot, how does the Searcy compare. I thought seriously about having my Searcy built in .500 N.E., but went with the .470 because of availability of ammo and (hopefully not ever required) resale price.

Judge,

The 500 NE KICKS! It doesn't jump out of my hands or anything like that, but it is a sharp jab into my shoulder. One day two friends and I took my .500, a .470 chapuis and a .470 Manton to the range. All three of us agreed that the .500 kicks considerably more than the .470's - perhaps 20% or 25% more felt recoil. However, I think the .500 is at or near the recoil limit for myself and one of the guys, and beyond the recoil limit for another of the guys, so we probably had an exaggerated impression of the recoil.

i had a searcy 500 nitro (sold it to my ph) but will be buying another i loved it it was very light at 11 pounds and recoil was mild as well.

i used this rifle this past spring on a elephant hunt as a back up to my 700 nitro searcy double rifle.

if every thing gose as planned i should have a nother 500 searcy soon

700nitro,

Did WR find a buyer for your .700 NE at the SCI Reno show? I saw the rifle there, prominently displayed at the end of an outside row where it will atrract attention due to its mass. Next to it was a WR .577 for $45K.

quote:

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Originally posted by Karl:

"It always seemed to me to be a good compromise but this does not necessarly sell something."

Karl.

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Good compromise is a good way to say it. Definately more horsepower on both ends tha the .450, .470, .475 group and less than the .577, in my experience. Same on the weight.
I liked them all. .577 and .500 are definately more than some can handle.

500 your and Judgeg's comments are the same impression I get from Taylor's writing.

Everything I hear about doubles leads me to beleive the 450nitro seems like the recoil threshold (for most African enthusiasts all ages), and so the 470 which is bigger is literally a free lunch, since its recoil is not much different from the 450.

JudgeG's 470 nitro at 2200fps+ might be an indication of why that that Jeffery cartridge -was it 475" or 488 or whatever (which ran at similar speed) was not as popular as the 470 was recoil.

A tiny difference but maybe right on the line?

Anyway it sounds like the 500 is really a whole new ballpark.

I'm trying to pick a calibre by the way, for myself, that obeys the rules of good sense, and I will still be able to carry when my muscles are forced to convert to brains.Well hopefully some of them will..


Karl.

Karl
If you are looking for the best combination of "killing Power", recoil and carrying ability a double rifle in one of the 450/400's is a great choice. My 450/400 3 1/4" weighs only 9 1/4 lbs. Read "the RIFLE Its Development For Big Game Hunting" by S. R. Truesdell, and "African Rifles and Cartridges" by John Taylor. Nobody ever says bad things about the 450/400's.
My 450 No2 weighs 11 3/4 lbs. Quite a bit heavier than the 450/400 ... However when you are within 6 yards of an elephant, or a buffalo is 25 yards away, hit and trying to get up, or a bull elephant has been shot twice and is comming, it does not seem quite so heavy.
Bottom line is ANY double rifle from 450/400 to 475 would be a great choice.

Karl,

Years ago another bloke and myself went along to the Big Game Club's annual shoot which was held in Sydney. Naturally enough we removed any evidence of Weatherby before entering

Anyway, I got to fire off a couple of the toys and one was a 500 and one 400 and also the bloke with the 500 had a Farquarson in 500 so he had a nice pair.

But what still sticks in my mind was the difference in size between the 400 and 500 doubles. It is easy to see why the 400 doubles were so popular.

Mike

Judge G

Why are you taking the 400 instead of your new 470?

Several reasons:

First, the Westley Richards is new (at least to me) and I've never hunted DG with it.

Next, I've taken the Searcy to Africa and bloodied it with an elephant,

And finally, I haven't talked any 25 year-old honey with bodatious ta-ta's to go with me, and holding on to the W-R does give me a little thrill. I need something pretty and expensive to sleep with.

I'm a little surprised by all the opinions of the .500 NE kicking that much more than the .470.

I've only fired one .500 NE but I was regulating it and because of the design ended up shooting it a lot. At the time I really didn't think it kicked that much worse than most .470's. It was pretty light too, as I recall. Somewhere around 10 pounds (probably too light).

In fact, once I regulated a really light .470 (about 8 1/2 pounds) that I thought kicked worse.

I guess recoil is really subjective. The next .500 I shoot may knock my head off.

Kyler

Perhaps my experience can provide a direct comparison. A nice .470 hammer double I acquired and shot quite a bit had the unacceptable reality of pitted chambers that required positive action to get the brass to extract. After much research I had it bored out to .500. Weight was somewhat over 11 pounds. After a trip to the proof house in London and regulating thanks to Keith Kearcher for a load chronographed at just over 2,000 fps, I went out to the range. Recoil was sharply up, not unacceptably, but enough that I sold the .500 and now use my 500/450 which is a treat to fire, load and fire again.
Regards, Tim

I doubt that many men in this world can pack a 12 to 15 lb. rifle all day long in the hot African veld day after day..

I know many that claim they could, but 15 hours on an elephant track will certainly seperate bull shit form truth and I have seen many a big strong strapping youth surrender his rifle to the tracker about early afternoon on the walk back and those were 10 lb. guns...If you want to ruin a good Safari then carry a gun too heavy for you to pack, happens all the time...

Only on the internet do we have such testosteroned mightys that can pack such monsters in the equitorial heat of Africa, God Bless them....

I own and shoot a .500 NE (11 lbs. 3 oz.) and a .470 NE (10lbs. 6 oz.). The .500 kicks a bit more, maybe 15-20% more. However, the difference in the effect that big bullet registers on game is tangible. Two years ago I stopped a serious buffalo charge with a double tap from that .500 and even the PH (who was to be the recipient of the charge) was impressed by the effect the .500 had. I'm now firmly in the Elmer Keith school of thought. All that said, the .450-.475's are no slouches. If you can carry/ shoot them better, you are still well armed for any animal that comes your way. It's just that .510" bullet in the right spot gives you just a bit more of an edge, all other things being equal.

Geronimo

quote:

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Only on the internet do we have such testosteroned mightys that can pack such monsters in the equitorial heat of Africa, God Bless them....

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You are correct Ray, with the small exception of machine gunners in every army in the entire world.

Kyler,
I would agree about the recoil being bearable subjectively, as I owned a 585 wildcat which I carried myself. In the equatorial belt of the Australian tropics no less.

I'm probably looking for excuses to avoid the 500 since that saves me the headache of wanting the next step the 577&600 which would be a natural progression-however financially beyond my means.

Mike, the 400 is at the 'safe other end' of this and probably where I would aim for.

You guys who have fired them pretty much echoed Taylors sentiments from where I am sitting, that it is a big thumper no two ways about it, but no free lunch either.

Karl.

Geronimo,
Can I ask where the bullet placement was to stop the charge and what type of bullets you were using in the 500?


Karl.

Karl, I must tell you that the charge took place in the jesse at about 30-40 feet. Although everything happens, it seems, in "slow motion", things are still happening pretty fast. In this case I just shot into the center of the black ball coming toward me. It turns out that both shots hit the mid chest, one just to the right of center-took out the right lung and was found in the left thigh, the other entered the center of the chest, nicked the left lung, hit and cracked the left rear leg near the hip joint. The animal was angling slightly to my right. I guess that accounts for the slight rake to the shots.

The bullet...Woodleigh solids
Performance...As advertised, went through four and a half feet of buffalo and the one that didn't hit bone looked as if it could be reloaded.

Geronimo