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Predictable can scarcely describe the usual crap coming out of a dictatorship. How about throwing in mismanagement, corruption, incompetence? Or disarming, control, stupidity, or the ever popular "You are screwed."

Hitler would be proud.

Anybody that doesn't get his ass out on Nov. 2nd, and everyone he knows, to vote for George Bush deserves the same.

Another sad aspect of this is that the new laws were coming for some years and the poor South Africans remained optimistic. The 5-gun limit has already hit Zimbabwe, a "partner" in SADU or whatever it is called. Anyone with any sense could see the "predictable" results, which is now most likely only at an intermediate stage to total gun confiscation. When they get them all, baby, the SA's and the rest of southern African's might as well kiss their asses goodbye.

As a Canadian who spent a few days in South Africa in July .. before leaving for an extended stay in Namibia .. I refuse to go back to South Africa because of the ridiculous gun laws and regulations that I had to go through .. I'll spend my money in Namibia next time .. in fact, if my travel agent won't get me on a jet from Frankfurt direct to Windhoek ... I'll change travel agents, too .. Grrrrrrrrr !!! I need a coffee ...

I was in Nelspruit police station today and saw 2 beautiful Mannlicher rifles that were owned by a french guy who had a home here. (but not residency) and they had been seized (for some reason) and were being sent for destruction tomorrow.

Thet threatened to do the same with my rifles and I threatened to pull my entire operation out of RSA, lay all my staff off and move to Botswana, so now they're reconsidering!.........honestly, what a bunch of pricks!

I wonder who the 8 people who did get approval were related to?

J/

As a "Canadian" I wouldn't yell too loud about someone elses silly gun laws..............................JJ

Hi,
What exactly are these 'Black Gunowners Associations'? Why don't they band together with the other groups to form a united front?

ALF, I'm completely ignorant of the gun laws in RSA. I subscribe to Man Magnum Magazine and still see numerous classified ads in the back for various sporting guns and pistols. How do buyers and sellers transact business now?

No Alf, but like in the USA, people make foolish decisions when they vote for this or that politician. Maybe in RSA it was a bit diff. as the right is severly out numbered, but in the US & Canada, the left (read antigun) can still be held in check if the right gets out to vote.

Ouch !!! JJ ... Not too sure why you had to take a swing at Canadians .... ??? Maybe you don't like back bacon or something ... ??? I went to South Africa to visit a friend ... I have wonderful friends there ... the paper work was ridiculous and so unnecessary .. Namibia also checks you out .. but it only took a few minutes .. not a couple of hours .. I suspect that folks who show up at the airport from overseas are there to spend a bundle of money .. Not car jack some poor soul in down town Joeys ...
So they should be freakin' sensible about the laws .. and that pertains doubly so for the laws they foist on the citizens - whether it is South Africa, your despised Canada, or where ever ...

The idea is to NOT make sensible gun laws. We keep calling politicans from here and everywhere "stupid" when they pass a "non sensible" gun law but in reality their not that stupid....get it. The only recourse is to vote, and vote right. I feel that in this country the tide is ever so slightly changing, but it can go backward real fast if one fashist bastard gets in office. As much as I hate politics I pay real close attention to all the canidates and vote accordingly.

Another is to join the nra and get involved. 80 million gun owners in this country and only a fraction of that is an nra member....shame. In unity there is strength.

Mickey, I assume you are in Wash. State ? If so when did the state law go into effect banning interstate firearms possession ?

Anyone who upholds Canadas gun laws as preferable to our own needs to gather more info on those laws. The PAL you are so proud of is a privledge extended by the State, and as such WILL be revoked in time, just wait. Here the right to possess is a God given right, quite a difference.....JJ

Let me clearly state my thought.

Alf, there are those who if they could, would turn us into Canada II, as they repeatedly hold up the Canadian gun laws to be copied and initiated here. But enough gunowners became single issue voters to hold those elected officials in check.

As for "taking a swipe" at Canadians, during the time when we were having the school shootings a Canadian offical came on Fox News with a poll which stated that the Canadian people felt they held a "morally superior" view of the way a country should be run. And because of that view and their commen sense gun laws that type of thing would never happen in Canada.

Now who took a swipe at who ? It appears that the gun laws are what a majority of Canadians want, no matter how asinine they are. So when I see a Canadian talking about someone elses gun laws its kinda hard to see why they would. The glass house kind of thing..............JJ

I agree, in that there is no sensible gun law, only bad ones. I wonder how many in SA's thought that only sensible rules and regulations would come from their new gun laws.

These are the same clowns that are trying to force more blacks into an industry that they are destroying. Must have been educated at Ivy league schools in the US.

JJ_Miller

Just a short point. As an American citizen, living in Washington, I cannot go into a Gunshop or a private residence in Montana and buy a shotgun or a rifle and legally walk out the door with it and take it home.

I have to locate a WA FFL and pay to have the firearm processed and shipped there.

As a holder of a Canadian PAL (Possession and Aquisition License) I can buy a shot gun or a rifle from a dealer or private party in any Province of Canada, walk out the door and take it anywhere else in Canada legally and safely.

Of course I still can't bring it home without other paperwork from the US Government.

I can however, take a rifle or shotgun across the Border into Canada in my truck. I only need to show my license at the Border and call a Firearms officer and read him the serial number over the phone if it isn't already registered. Much simpler than our system and, in my opinion, less intrusive.

Micky1
Unless the laws have changed since I last read them can't you buy a long gun in a contigous state?
And if I remember correctly you can replace any gun in any state if one like it becomes broken and you are engaged in a lawful sporting activity.

JJ

This law has been in effect for years. It is Federal and not a State statute. If you have been acting differently you are in violation of several Federal Statutes.

You are probably correct about Canadian laws being changed in time. But have you not noticed that our are also changing? Gunowners in the US are being squeezed also.

Interstate travel and shipment are not guaranteed by the Constitution. Cancealed carry permits, bans on 50 Calibers, bans on ammuntion, bans on the way firearms look. The Constitution is interpreted by the Judiciary not the NRA. Our rights are as fragile as anyones and it is only through Political Power that they will survive.

Still, it is easier to buy and to travel with a rifle or shotgun in Canada if you have a PAL.

450#2

Montana is not a contiguous State to Washington. Idaho, Oregon and Alaska are.

Mickey1

I never said Washington and Montana were contigious.

You just need to shop closer to home.

Just for the record ... I have never met a gun owner in Canada who feels anything but disgust for the gun laws ... We fought them and will continue to fight them .. but once again it is the huge urban populations who have the votes ... And generally the average citizen doesn't have a clue ... same as in Oz ... and most other places, I reckon .. JJ .... if you make it out to Alberta some time for the hunting .. give me a call ... I'll take you out for a cold one and and we can complain about gun laws in stereo ..

Mickey, let me get this straight, you are saying I can only buy a firearm in my home state ? If thats what you are saying thats not correct. You can legally purchase a rifle or shotgun in any state unless that state restricts the sale. Thats how its always been, I speak from experience and first hand knowledge............................JJ

It all sounds so familiar....... Gun control is populace control. Period.

-Bob F.


�Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.�
--- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndfqu.html

�As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow-citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.�
--- Tench Coxe, "Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution," in the Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndnew.html

This is not good. Hopefully the new laws can be changed, as lack of taxes(cash), will have an impact on the government as well as the industry.

I hunted in RSA this June, in fact the new import laws came into effect while my son and I were there. My PH says a common occurence is on Friday evening SAP will "inspect" a white residence to insure no unauthorized ammo or firearms were present. Without fail an errant round would be found under the bed or in the back of the safe. If the white homeowner payed a "fine" on the spot in the amount to be determined by the senior SAP present (usually enough to cover the weekends drinking and whoring) all went well and the SAP left. If the fine was refused the homeowner sat in jail until Monday. Unreal.........................JJ

JJ

You may buy a firearm in your State or a contiguous State from a private party and take immediate delivery. You may buy a firearm from an FFL Dealer in your State or a contiguous State and take immediate delivery (State Law allowing).

If you buy a firearm from an FFL Dealer or a private citizen in a non-contiguous State the firearm must be sent to your State to an FFL for pickup. (and registration)

You may buy anywhere. It is how you recieve delivery that matters to the Feds.

In Canada, if you have a PAL, you may buy from any Province, from a private citizen or a Dealer, and have the firearm sent to your home. Then you call the local firearms officer and inform him of the make, serial number etc. (registration)

The PH was surely only pulling your leg! Never heard of such a nonsense.


www.kapstadt.de/lemberg
Hunting one hour from Cape Town