First here's my disclaimer, I am not writing this post in anyway to put down another hunters choice to visit South Africa once twice or 100 times. BUT I see many hunters on this web site and in my own Safari Club who make repeated trips to South Africa. I know of one fellow who has gone every year for 13 years and always back to South Africa and with the same outfitter. Please get out and see more of Africa. I am no way a veteran like some on this site but I have 5 Safari's under my belt and each one to a different country and each one was an improvement on the last. I realize there is a tendency to find a PH you like and want to hunt with him again and again, but let me assure you that my limited experience has lead me to conclude that finding a bad PH in africa is not that easy. So get out see South Africa then spend the rest of your life and money seeing the rest of Africa. I am sure I will run out of breath or money before I have done all and seen all in Africa.

The hippies had it right:

Whatever makes you happy.

I've been eating Vanilla ice cream for well over 60 years and it's still what I pick first. And the last dish I had was as good as the first I ever had. I have only made 8 trips to Africa and they have all been to Zimbabwe and all 8 have been with the same outfitter. My money,my choice,my happiness. You do what you wish.

Well, I have only been once and I am going back to the same location because They treated me so well and gave me EXACTLY the hunting I wanted.
I think the idea of visiting with friends and familiar surroundings is also a driving force in that decision. There is also the fact that there are another 15 species of animal available which I did not hunt.
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Frank

Been twice. Hunted with the same PH both times. Glad I did we have a great time together. I like familar things. I stay at the same motels on trips year after year. I shot some of the same animals also and I would again. I have 4 Impala 3 book animals {I know that it is not hard to make the book with Impala and I enter nothing}. He is really good at Bushbuck this years was a monster. But I will go again but to a different place. Need to see some more of the best hunting on the planet.

When I go back I'll go back w/the same PH for the same reason's Frank listed!
Robert

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
The hippies had it right:

Whatever makes you happy.

You made my day! Damn, this is a nice line ...

Different strokes for different folks, I guess!

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I've been eating Vanilla ice cream for well over 60 years and it's still what I pick first. And the last dish I had was as good as the first I ever had. I have only made 8 trips to Africa and they have all been to Zimbabwe and all 8 have been with the same outfitter. My money,my choice,my happiness. You do what you wish.

With all due respect... With Zimbabwe being the hot deal destination that it has been for most of the past decade, and a darn good deal before that, I don't think I would compare 8 straight trips to Zimbabwe with 13 straight trips to South Africa.

Heading back to the well in Zimbabwe is just smart allocation of your DG dollar. 13 straight trips to South Africa with the same outfitter, that's just lack of imagination!


Jason

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I've been eating Vanilla ice cream for well over 60 years and it's still what I pick first. And the last dish I had was as good as the first I ever had. I have only made 8 trips to Africa and they have all been to Zimbabwe and all 8 have been with the same outfitter. My money,my choice,my happiness. You do what you wish.

With all due respect... With Zimbabwe being the hot deal destination that it has been for most of the past decade, and a darn good deal before that, I don't think I would compare 8 straight trips to Zimbabwe with 13 straight trips to South Africa.

Heading back to the well in Zimbabwe is just smart allocation of your DG dollar. 13 straight trips to South Africa with the same outfitter, that's just lack of imagination!


Jason

MORE LIKE JUST PLAIN BOREDOM!!. when you know every bush, tree, fire break, warthog burrow, etc( which you should after 13 trips to the same area- especially when it is probably a high fenced area) there isn't a whole lot of excitement about doing something different.how many kudu, impala. wildebeast, blesbuck, etc do you want to shoot?

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Martinez:
Well, I have only been once and I am going back to the same location because They treated me so well and gave me EXACTLY the hunting I wanted.
I think the idea of visiting with friends and familiar surroundings is also a driving force in that decision. There is also the fact that there are another 15 species of animal available which I did not hunt.

Frank

Hunting consists of more than shooting.like friends around the campfire with a nice sundowner.

The better you know your ph/outfitter the less there is to worry about and less things to go wrong

quote:

but let me assure you that my limited experience has lead me to conclude that finding a bad PH in africa is not that easy.

That's funny we got a bad one on our first try and I did do thorough research etc. Live and learn.
Good news is we are going back and with diff.
outfit. Both in RSA , havent seen enough of that country to move on. We will have only covered Limpopo and the NWT , would still like to go to KZN and the Eastern Cape. Then maybe on to another country.

I really don't identify with the people who always have to have something DIFFERANT for no more real reason than to have something differant. I have had the same art work hanging on my walls for over 30 years and gain as much pleasure looking at it as I did when I bought it. I still go to the Desert Museum here and the Saguaro Monument (in fact I have been to both twice in the last few weeks) and I probably know every inch of both areas but never seem to enjoy it any less with each trip. I suppose that's the problem of not having very much imagination because I can't imagine being any more happy than I have been with any of these repetative excursions.

I have to agree. I have not been to Africa yet right now I am still trying to get my ducks in a row. Hopefully be able to make repeated trips.
I can not identify with people who want to see the same place time and time again. When there are so many places to see and things to do in this world. To me the people who go to the same places over and over again have no imagination.

Guys,

I have no arguement with any of the reasons given above for repeat bookings. In fact I've personally done repeat bookings with 3 different outfits and it was very comforting to arrive in familiar surroundings. Having said that for me safari is as much about the adventure as anything and once I've taken the species I want with a particular safari operator I want to move on to a different expereince.

In the end it's all about the fun so each to his own. Mine is to see as much of Africa as my budget will allow.

Mark

Here seems to be a lesson for Hunting Outfitters to learn?

If you manage to get a "first timer" and treat him well, you may have one of two things:

(i) A repeat client for many years!
(ii) A client that writes a good Hunt Report and moves on to go with a next HO next year.


Needless to say that, as HO I like hunters the first type, like Zimbabwe, Frank and boatammo more. But I hold noting against the man like Jarrod who comes once and moves on to a different HO. As long as he writes a good hunt report!

My "ideal" client is probably someone like Ej who is actually by nature one of the first kind of hunters. To date my “most times returned client†was, like Ej badly burnt on his first safari, which was to Namibia.

Like 375 fanatic said, there is much to say for enjoying the companionship of sitting by the fire with a friend that also shared your fire before.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Hunting is simply a pass time that is unique to the hunter involved, and all hunters are not the same.

Some hunters are "COLECTORS", with a tape measure in every pocket. Some are adrenalin junkies,and need danger to make things right for him (I'm in this one), and others are simply laid back vacationers who just want to relax from the viger needed in their business. Some have a hobo's shoe that has to walk to ever new places.

Most of my life I have hunted alone, except for Africa, and Alaska, and I'd love to be able to just do that all over Africa, if it were not illegal. I say what ever floats your canoe, paddle on, and go where you like, it harms me in no way!!

I'm booked for my first AND ONLY African hunt in 2009. I know, I know, you can't go only once, I'll be hooked for life, a changed man, blah, blah, blah.

Seriously, if time and funds were unlimited, I'm sure that I'd go to Africa (and many other hunt destinations) numerous times. The sad fact is that for myself, and many others, an African hunt is a monumental undertaking, financially and otherwise. I want it to be an adventure of the first order, a life-changing experience, and something that will live in my memory forever. A second trip to the same place would, in my opinion, begin to fall short of these goals, and might even detract from the "uniqueness" of the first trip!

And yes, I have paintings on my walls that I enjoy as much today as when I bought them 30 years ago. I enjoy re-reading some of my favourite books many times. My yearly deer hunts and bear hunts are in the same places, where I know every rock, stump, pond, etc. These things are not adventures, they are the equivalent of "comfort foods" and are just as important to my happiness as an exotic hunt.

But a true exotic hunt MUST BE to a new and exciting location, IMHO. Some (most?) of you will laugh, but I have only gone on one fully-guided, out-ot-province (I'm a Canuck) hunt in my life, and it was a fantastic experience. I loved every second of it. Would I go again? Never! There's a whole world out there! My limited travel time has to go towards experiencing as much of it as possible.

If I do change my mind after my safari, I promise a full-colour video of me eating an entire roasted crow.

John

I made my first trip in May, and I am planning on going again. I just don't know when. When the time comes and the funds are saved, I would like to go somewhere else. The question then becomes would I rather spend more more money on travel or use that extra money for trophy fees? At this point in time the answer would lean to more for trophy fees. I could make the same trip I did this year, not hunt the same animals and have a great trip.

When the time comes however, I'll more than likely go somwhere else. My friend I went with this year was making his second trip, he is ready for somewhere else.

The past 8 years i have been to Rsa (South Africa )31 times with my clients and all the time at the same place and outfitter and why!!nice camps,nice trophiees,100% no problems and most inportant my clients love the place and the ph"s !i am next year going to Mosambiqe with the same outfitter and ph and why!!i trust him 100% and he always deliver good hunting and no bullshit!!

quote:

Originally posted by donner:
The past 8 years i have been to Rsa (South Africa )31 times with my clients and all the time at the same place and outfitter and why!!nice camps,nice trophiees,100% no problems and most inportant my clients love the place and the ph"s !i am next year going to Mosambiqe with the same outfitter and ph and why!!i trust him 100% and he always deliver good hunting and no bullshit!!

Hunting with clients is not the same as hunting with friends and 10 days can get a long time

trust is the key word and can not be paid for

When going back to RSA, I've never returned to the same concession but once, I think. I have hunted with the same two PH's, though. The fellows know me, what I expect and enjoy, and they "shop" around for good concessions that we can "rent" for a week or so. I know it costs a bit more than using the resident PH, but my guys have gone and scouted out the place, seen the quality of the game, tasted the food, etc. I trust their judgment... so.. we do it.

I get my cake and eat it too when going to RSA. I hunt with folks who stay in my house when in the U.S., know my childrens' names, send Christmas presents, name dogs after me, etc. On most occassions in RSA, the resident PH is around, often goes hunting with us when he knows the whereabouts of a big kudu or warthog.. eats supper with us and becomes a friend, too.

I've sent numerous folks to the concessions where I've visited, to hunt with the PH I met there. My PH's aren't jealous, understand the deal, keep taking my money and one just sent me a picture of Judge's newest litter of Jack Russell puppies... Like his namesake, he's quite the stud dog, btw.



RSA isn't Zim or the Selous, but it has a zillion concessions in which to hunt. It is more laid back than an excursion that requires charters, it's wife/daughter/girlfriend friendly. Medical care is close if needed for the faint hearted or weak-kneed. It is one airplane ride from Atlanta. Swimming pools and hot tubs ain't so bad... and when time is of the essence, you save a day or two either side of the hunt because of the J'burg/ATL deal... not to mention about $600 more @ person for airline transport (and that's before charters).

RSA is not a third world country, yet? But, if you go to a big enough concession, a week of hunting won't be boring, can get your sightings of some of the big five that are pretty darn wild, let you drink some of that wonderful RSA wine and beer... and other than the sometimes stupid gun import hassles, not have a single thing about which to worry. I.e., trophies get back to the U.S., road blocks are rare, malaria prevention (in some parts) is not necessary, shots aren't required, phone service is reliable.... I like the place.

All that said, I'm going to Zim in March, I think. Probably Omay for the 4th time. I'm begining to know every warthog hole there, but until I know every elephant, I'm on my way!

And, if the right offer comes along, maybe before flying up to Harare for J-burg, I can drink a beer and shot a antleope or something with an AR member from RSA???

well said Judge exactly my view aswell the people makes the hunt not only the area

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

................... I like the place.

..........................................

And, if the right offer comes along, maybe before flying up to Harare for J-burg, I can drink a beer and shot a antleope or something with an AR member from RSA???

JudgeG,

In appreciation for your very kind [and true] words about hunting in South Africa, you are formally invited to come and try your hand at some 'real' springbuck and steenbuck hunting at my place before you go for bigger things in March 2009.

You know the type of hunting here in the Free State grassveld? We are blessed here with good numbers of "Trekbokke"! Ever heard of the term? These are springbuck that are past masters at crawling through cattle fences: So they migrate or "trek" to wherever they want to go. In a sense they belong to no-one, but in legal terms the do belong to the farmer on whose property they find themselves on at any time. Because of this fact many farmers over many years have tried shoot one or more whenever these are seen on their land. Over many years this has taught these trekbokke them that a vehicle at about 500 to 1000 yards is no danger - as long as it is moving! They invariably start running the moment the vehicle stops withing about 1000 yards from the! So, the great PH's who "hunt" from vehicles have absolutely zero change of success in getting a slow to get ready to shoot client one from a vehicle. No, you have to hunt them differently! You have to hunt them. Needless to say they have also learnt that it is not wise for a herd to run to some hills or any area where there is even a bit of cover that a hunter can use to get to within shooting range from them. As I said, you have to really H-U-N-T them!

Because they can go where they please the size of the "hunting area" on which I invite you to come and hunt one is best expressed in terms of number of square kilometers, or miles, as you may prefer. Expressing the number in hectares or acres results in mind boggling figures!

Here near Mervilla, my home base, one can see the springbuck from maybe 3000 or more yards away. That is where my part of the hunt ends: I'll point out the heard, if you don't see them first, explain what I know about roads and fences between us and them, I'll help you plan the stalk: Then you are on your own! Remember there are no dangerous animals around, so you are safe to be alone without a PH to back you up. At the rate you are likely to move, snakes will get out of your way!

As your PH I'm legally bound to only let you hunt under my 'direct supervision'! That you'll most certainly do: I will sit in the vehicle or in the shade of one of the very few trees around and supervise you through my binoculars! If needed, I'll give instructions or advice by two way radio.

Be warned though that there are few things so humiliating to a hunter as trying to stalk sprinbuck over a long distance in open grassveld. Their eyesight is simply amazing! And, be assured, once these "trekbokke" see something suspicious, they do not stay around for long! There are also few thing as satisfying as actually getting one!

Trophies found hereabouts are not much to speak of, inches wise. I suggest that you leave the tape-measure in your workshop in the USA. The genetics are simply against you when hunting one of these Free State springbuck. You may very well get a real old ram, and if you are really very lucky he may have Roland Ward qualifier horns! A few have actually been shot in my area. But more likely the trophy value will not be in the inches; but will be in the knowledge that you did it on your own in his preferred open and very difficult to stalk in terrain. But come and have fun by hunting the way it should be done!

Steenbuck are a bit easier to stalk - as they are solitary and does not seem to see quite as well as springbuck.

The beer is also on me! I will also have some "deep heat ointment" to help sooth the aching muscles the day after such a long stalk!

I do hope this is the right type of offer?

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Andrew McLaren Safaris at [URL=http://www.mclarensafaris.com]

Wow! Why didn't you invite me to just go water skiing on asphalt?

I haven't firmed up my Zimbabwe dates. Let me do that and you and I can decide if we will do this thing before or after my elephant hunt.

On these farms, are there other animals or varmits available? How about some pond fishing while my knees and elbows are healing?

And I like real coffee (not instant), crunchy peanut butter on my toast in the morning and some hard sausage to put in my pocket for mid-morning/afternoon snacks... that, a glass of cabernet at supper (grilled kudu loins?) and a Scotch at sunset is all I ask... and the conversation of interesting men and woman who have lived a life different than mine.

We'll have a good time.

I've only taken one springbuck. It, too, was upon return from Zimbabwe and elephants. I only had a .404 Jeffery loaded with 400 grain Woodleigh solids at 2300 f.p.s. When you shot the thing at an animal several hunderd yards away, it was like indirect fire with a 155 howitzer... you could hear the ssssshhhhhoooooooooozzzzzzz of the bullet, then a very, very loud "whap" when the bullet (sometimes) struck home. Springbuck didn't do too well when hit, btw.

Sorry about hijacking the thread, but I think Andrew has pointed out some really fun stuff that make RSA worthwhile. It doesn't always have to be about a "classic" safari.

I'm a three time South African Repeater, but each time was different. Different Outfitters, different Provinces, different properties, and different animals.

What Andrew says about Trekbok at Mervilla is 100% accurate. Very challenging stuff. Know your trajectories and the best of luck.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
.................................

On these farms, are there other animals or varmits available? How about some pond fishing while my knees and elbows are healing?

................................................

Sorry about hijacking the thread, but I think Andrew has pointed out some really fun stuff that make RSA worthwhile. It doesn't always have to be about a "classic" safari.

JudgeG,

What other animals in area? Besides springbuck in good numbers and quite abundant steenbuck there are a few duikers around too. All of these are spread out over a vast area, so you do not see animals everywhere, but a small group here and a few more quite some distance away. All, particularly duiker, are difficult to find and difficult to stalk, in particular springbuck. There are a few "high fenced" game camps in which almost all plains game are kept. In the immediate vicinity - say within 1 hour's drive - I can put you onto gemsbuck, red hartebeest, black wildebeest, impala, kudu, zebra, eland, waterbuck, ostrich and a few more that I now miss.

Varmints? Let's just first define what is understood by the term "varmint". I take that to mean any animal that causes some damage to agricultural crops and are present in such numbers that farm owners generally don't mind, or even like, you to shoot them in numbers. By such a definition rock pigeon, guinea fowl, spurwing goose, Egyptian goose, porcupine, black backed jackall, caracal, cape fox, springhare, a variety of meercats and dasies [rock hyrax] are all looked on as varmints. Methods vary from daytime long distance shooting at hyrax and meercats to spotlighting with or without calling at night.

Here are some gory photos of the results of such activities.






Pond fishing? Not in our immediate area. But we do have a few quite popular fishing venues in the rivers and impoundments in the area. I have access to a part of the Orange River which contains one of the very best places to get yellow fish on fly-fishing tackle.

The classic Teddy Roseveldt safari here in the Free State? No! But you can have a lot of varied true trophy and herd management hunting and varmint shooting

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

The only varmint on that photos is the last Photo were the bobejan is holding the gun LOL

quote:

I'm a three time South African Repeater, but each time was different. Different Outfitters, different Provinces, different properties, and different animals.

I just re-read my original post, and thought I should elaborate on it.

I would probably classify myself as a "collector" but I don't hunt with a tape measure. Although I have shot some North American and African "record book" animals, I have not entered any in the books.

With so many different animals in Africa, and since I don't have an unlimited hunting budget, I've decided to hunt as many different animals as I can.

My Africa experience started in 2000, I went again in 2005 to both Zimbabwe and South Africa, and the last time I was there was in 2007. On these three trips I have hunted on 13 properties in 4 Provinces, with 8 PH's, and have shot 28 different species of animals.

This has allowed me to meet and hunt with some great people and to experience different areas in South Africa from the Limpopo to the Eastern Cape.

And although I don't hunt with a tape measure, I have yet to find a Warthog that I like enough to shoot. There is a trip number 4 in my future.

I guess you have to call me a repeater. My 4 trips have all been to Botswana. All to the Okavango Delta with the same outfitter. The first 3 featured the same PH. On the last two, I added a couple of days in the Kalahari.
Why go to the same place? Simply put, the Okavango Delta is spectacular and the outfitter has one of the best concessions there. I had a great time on my first hunt so when I took my Sons on hunt 2 I returned. When I convinced various friends to accompany me of trips 3 & 4, I decided to return the camp that I knew they would enjoy. Next time? Maybe somewhere else, but maybe not.

I have been in SA a lot of times. My best outfitter has been Johan Dreyer. Therefor I continue travelling with him. We have also been together in Zim for B5, Kalahari for rhino ++.

http://www.hunt-africa.net/geninfo.html

RSA x4
ZIMBABWE x2
BOTSWANA x1
NAMIBIA x1
ZAMBIA X2
TANZANIA X2
KENYA X1
MOZAMBIQUE X2

This will offend some, but I don't consider a hunt in RSA to be a true safari. I do recommend RSA for PG for first time African hunters. I prefer tents to lodges or ranch houses and concessions to farms and enjoy hunting the bush. One of the RSA hunts was for my daughters 21st birthday and another for a friend who was screwed by an illegitimate HO on his first hunt.

Zim was the same outfitter/area for a PAC Elephant the second time. Zambia was different HO and areas, as was Tanzania. Mozambique was same outfitter and same area but with handgun only the second time. Same HO for one each RSA, Zambia and Tanzania.

I guess I just like variety and new experiences. I've never understood why someone would return time after time to the same HO and area. I darted my Rhino in RSA, killed my Ele in Zim, hunted Leopard in Zim and Tanzania and Lion in Zambia and Tanzania while shooting Buff in Zambia, Tanzania and Mozambique, Hippo in Zambia and Tanzania and Croc in Tanzania and Mozambique. I have collected approximately 50 different African species from various countries. Can't do that in one country.

I have hunted with large and small outfitters and young and older PHs of varying experience. One was a pain in the rectum, most were good and many excellent. Most have remained friends over the years and I book for only HO I have hunted with personally.

I've been sitting back trying to come up with a profound statement for those that seem to think a "repeater" is nuts.

I've been to Zim, Namibia, and RSA more times than most people will ever dream of going, and mostly with the same folks.

Ya know why........Because I'm comfortable with them.

To those that think going to the same place more than once or twice is "wrong",I can only say it is like religion...

But I suppose you go to a different church each week too.... or do you go to the same place because you are "comfortable" there?

So do what you want to do, and don't pass judgement on those that do what they do.

There is no right or wrong in going the same place or not. It's like going to a restuarant. I like to keep trying different places and trying different items on the menu because i am adventurous. My wife however as a few places she likes and almost without exception orders the same thing because it works for her. I view safari in the same way. If you are a person that likes familar and consistancy then by all means if it floats your boat go the same place. I am adventurous, I want to go to new places trying new things.
Aaron

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
RSA x4
ZIMBABWE x2
BOTSWANA x1
NAMIBIA x1
ZAMBIA X2
TANZANIA X2
KENYA X1
MOZAMBIQUE X2

...I book for only HO I have hunted with personally.

I've always wished I could have hunted in Kenya. Tell us about your safari there.
Also, who do you book for?
Thanks.

I didn't resume hunting for 6 years after I returned from the USMC and RVN, so I missed Kenya hunting. Got started after it closed. A Kenya photo safari I booked for my wife was my first visit to sub-Saharan Africa. That's when I said I would be back with my rifles. Haven't been able to stop.

I book safari into Mozambique, Namibia, RSA (x2 HO) and Botswana. RSA and Namibia are family operations while Mozambique and Botswana are concessions and true bush hunts. I can arrange family safaris, Rhino green hunts along with most of the rest of the Big 5, world class small antelope hunts (6 new #1s since 2003), rifle, handgun and bow hunts. I also have a well established New Zealand HO. My HO book out well in advance and I have hunted with all of them and stayed in their camps or on their ranches.