For group testing during load development, NOT POINT OF IMPACT TESTING , with an iron sight only rifle what distance and target size do you use? In my case I find that using the smallest target that I can see even barely adequately gives the tightest grouping. Being over the hill sight wise (over 40 and presbyopic, so the sights are no longer clear) I find that the 1" pasters are no longer suitable for 50 yards. For this reason I have moved most of my iron sight testing to 40 yards. If I use a 2" paster at 50 yards group size suffers measurably. I now use 3" pasters at 100 instead of the 2" pasters that I used to get by with. I also find that orange pasters are harder to see under certain light conditions, so I am using more black pasters than before.



What do you find best for load development group testing with iron sights, both for target size and color, and for distance? I am mostly talking about express type sights, as aperture (peep) sights increase clarity and contrast of the target due to the increased depth of field when lookig through the aperture, even for "old eyes".



Jim

Jim,



On my Ruger 458 Lott I have the red fiber optic front sight and a rear express by NECG...I use 3inch black circles and the red sight glows on the black background...

My eyes went south also..

Mike

For everything (with iron sights) I use the Shoot-N-See 8" circle at 100 meters, using a 6 o'clock hold. That is the smallest target I can see (or think I can see) at that distance.

I know Ray claims he can use open sights at a 1000 yds., but what are you "grouping" for in the first place?

I've learned to sight-in open sights off-hand without the bench, at 25 yards. If the bullet goes where you want it to at 25 yds., even approximately, you're done. If the first one is there, the rest are going to be close enough.

I don't understand "grouping" with a big bore for Africa. It is not like the damn thing is going to stand there for you to get a 5-shot string off.

I employ British Parlimentary Procedure to ready the .505.
If I can hit a pack of Parliments* at 100, I'm done.

* MT of Course

Will,

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I have open sight only rifles all the way down to small bores. This past deer season I hunted with a 280 Ross, a 375x2.5 Flanged Nitro, and a couple of 303's, all original factory sporters with open sights. Next year I plan to use a 333 Jeffery and a 350 Rigby, and a 375x2.25 Rimless Nitro. Besides, I enjoy the challenge of working with vintage rifles, and finding out just how well they can be made to shoot. This is one reason for my interest in "grouping", the other is that I just like to do it .

I intend to take at least one open-sighted rifle to Africa for use on plains game next year, and possibly one for buff (about which I can see your point about). I would do it this year, but buff are not on the agenda and I do not intend to be hunting plains game except as bait. Since my hunting buddy is going I will be only taking one rifle for myself, as we are trying to limit our rifles to one case on the airlines. For lion I want a scope for use in a blind, but it will be in QD's in case of a followup.

In reality the reason that I posted this thread on the African Forum, was that there is more open sight experience here than any of the other forums.

Jim

I still do not understand, but what the heck. This seems to get just more complicated.

FWIW, I wouldn't use open sights to shoot bait. "Bait" most of the time doesn't want to be bait, and can, on occasion, be a long ways off. I don't want to be wasting time looking for wounded "bait." Bait hunting to me is shooting the damn thing and throwing it in the back of the Cruiser and let's go hang it. It is not, to me, spot and stalk and all the rest of it.

And, FWIW, I wouldn't do the combo rifle case. Since there are two of you I would share two cases, one of each of the guys rifles in each case. That way if one gets "delayed" each of you have something to use.

Jim,

I use my 350 Rigby No. 2 for plains game with open sights although it has a scope with QD mounts. Am also using a falling block with hand detachable barrels in 300 and 375 H&H flanged mag. Also working up a load with a 12 gauge Paradox 749 grain Fosbery projectile. Biggest bore remaining in the arsenal is a 500/450 Nitro. Took an elephant (side brain shot) with it last September. Shot was at 45 yards.

In all cases I group test at 50 and 100 yards, and then nudge the back sight to the left (usually) because my eye has drifted that way. Much can be done to shoot tighter groups with small changes in powder charges (or even different powders). But sometimes hardware fixes are needed. The .375 flanged and the 12 bore Paradox are giving trouble: the Paradox is now out to have the barrels regulated. May also have to have the back sight vee welded up and recut a bit to raise the point of impact because the front sight is as low as it can go. The .375 flanged is about to acquire a lower front sight to raise its group height.

Key to all this is having confidence that the rifle shoots where you point it as far as you are willing to shoot iron sights. For me that's a max of 125-150 yards, but then that's hunting, and I hunt even those animals used for meat on the game farm.
Regards, Tim

I use a sheet of white typing paper at 100 yards for all my iron sighted rifles and shoot for center....With a receiver I use the same 2 inch bull that I use for a scope. I want my irons to be on or an inch high at 100 yds...I use a 3 inch triagle bull at 50 yards for my double rifles and print them a half to 1 inch high...