quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
I have shot hundreds of impala at night from a truck, but I was not hunting.

Funny enough sporting hunters go to Africa trying to emulate in some small dreamy way the exploits of past great white hunters.
Who in several cases were infact mostly into commercial poaching.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
I have shot hundreds of impala at night from a truck, but I was not hunting.

Funny enough sporting hunters go to Africa trying to emulate in some small dreamy way the exploits of past great white hunters.
Who in several cases were infact mostly into commercial poaching.

The only constant is change

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:


Shooting an unwounded lion from a truck is wrong, it is unprincipled, period. I think the opinion posted by other hunters on this thread says it all. As I keep saying, I believe the majority of us know inherently what is right and wrong. I knew it was wrong to shoot a lion from the back of a truck when I was at junior school. I have shot hundreds of impala at night from a truck, but I was not hunting. I have followed a wounded leopard with other hunters through long grass in a truck - yes, safety does come first. But cruising along the road in a truck 'looking' for a lion to shoot from said truck? That is not hunting.

Dave

The post above is well stated! I have zero problem shooting camp meat, culling, or bait animals from the truck even at night, but as stated that is not hunting!

I have to agree the shooting from the truck on an unwounded cat is not right unless the animal is actually charging while you are on the truck. Areas around game parks can house lions,that have on occasion taken viewers right off the top of safari viewing trucks, especially in Kruger park! There is also an area that borders Kruger park where lion and buffalo move freely out of the park onto private land, and anyone who knows anything about parks knows the most dangerous animals in the world are park animals that have lost their natural fear of humans! That is why I made the comment about someone always CALLING CANNED simply because a lion was shot in RSA.

I assure you those cats that come out of Kruger onto that private land are not canned, they are just not scared of people because they have lived in that park! People get killed every year in that park! I have no idea where in RSA the lion in this thread was shot, but it makes no difference in this case because the lioness shouldn't have been shot from the truck or on foot for that matter! HUNTING cats from the top of the truck is not right, however following-up a wounded cat is right.

Going into the tall elephant grass on top of the hunting car with a "WOUNDED" lion, leopard or buffalo however is simply smart if that option is available. We have a member who posts here who has made several films that seems to be favorable to many here, yet he shoots unwounded TROPHY animals from the back of the hunting car. What's up with that?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I have to agree the shooting from the truck on an unwounded cat is not right unless the animal is actually charging.

The way I understand it, most here are saying something somewhat different,.. that shooting an unwounded cat from a truck is wrong, Period.

quote:

We have a member who posts here who has made several films that seems to be favorable to many here, yet he shoots unwounded TROPHY animals from the back of the hunting car. What's up with that?

Those choosing to shoot from the ground in situations were an available higher vantage point[vehicle] would allow less chance of a snuffed shot, may be appeasing one form of personal ethic or form of showmanship, but be ignoring other practical common sense ones.
If taking the shot from a vehicle sensibly allows one some advantage[ie; a clearer view/perspective and steadier rest in order to best achieve a cleaner/swifter kill], then its seems ethical to me.... after all, thats our primary objective aint it?

WOW

I just saw an endorsement for truck hunting DG



SSR

and when the game gets wounded and too dangerous they run back to the truck anyways...
In any case shooting from a vehicle is no less ethical than using stand,blind,baits or hounds, which don't seem to bother some.

As I said before,
Why not go to Africa and simply be content with the results you achieve using your own personal standard of hunting/shooting ethics, and leave others to their own methods and conscience.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Those choosing to shoot from the ground in situations were an available higher vantage point[vehicle] would allow less chance of a snuffed shot, may be appeasing one form of personal ethic or form of showmanship, but be ignoring other practical common sense ones.
If taking the shot from a vehicle sensibly allows one some advantage[ie; a clearer view/perspective and steadier rest in order to best achieve a cleaner/swifter kill], then its seems ethical to me.... after all, thats our primary objective aint it?


Alsom this quote
In any case shooting from a vehicle is no less ethical than using stand,blind,baits or hounds, which don't seem to bother some.

Trax,

this is slightly off track but I am trying to get a point across.

I hunt Water buffalo and pigs in the north of Aust every year that could easily hold other dg species if we had them.

The hunting can be by walking long distances, with a PH driving to a plce and then walking or using 4 wheel bikes to cross flood plains / ground and then walk to the Buffalo.

At other times I "hunt" a farm where we use 4 Wheel Bikes or Golf Cart type vehicles to get around - including herding cattle and Buffalo. However, if we shoot one, my mate makes us shoot away from the bike. I agree with him. Those who don't don't go back.
Apart from other reasons, follow up shots are a lot easier if standing up as animals can go in any direction !

I can tell you that shooting from a vehicle would make it so damn easy, animals react differently to a vehicle than a person on foot, you could drive around and shoot the Africa Top 50 without doing any work at all.

Sorry, but regardless of the advantages of height, it is still not a reason to hunt from a vehicle.

I think their is a BIG Difference to hunting from a truck versus a stand, blind, baits or hounds. My HO so not everyone will agree but that's life.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
and when the game gets wounded and too dangerous they run back to the truck anyways...
In any case shooting from a vehicle is no less ethical than using stand,blind,baits or hounds, which don't seem to bother some.

As I said before,
Why not go to Africa and simply be content with the results you achieve using your own personal standard of hunting/shooting ethics, and leave others to their own methods and conscience.

Trax, great idea, why don't YOU do just that, you obviously don't adhere to a high standard of ethics so you wouldn't have to concentrate much on maintaining it.

BTW, who runs back to the truck when the game is wounded? Who are you referring to exactly? Who is they? Generalization, supposition, dung. I have been on quite a few wounded animal follow-ups and recall only one where a vehicle was used...

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Trax, great idea, why don't YOU do just that, you obviously don't adhere to a high standard of ethics so you wouldn't have to concentrate much on maintaining it.

measure of ethics is relative and personal.
You have already said its acceptable to you to use a chopper to spot game,...then land in close convenient proximity to disembark and attempt a shot.
However, some folk have higher hunting standards/ethics than you on that subject, and would consider/accuse you of being a person not bothering to maintain the higher personal standard of hunting ethics/techniques/principles, held by other individuals.
They might just view you with the same level of contempt that you view those who choose to shoot unwounded cats from a truck.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Trax, great idea, why don't YOU do just that, you obviously don't adhere to a high standard of ethics so you wouldn't have to concentrate much on maintaining it.

measure of ethics is relative and personal.
You have already said its acceptable to you to spot whatever game-where ever it is, from a chopper and land in close convenient proximity to disembark and take a shot.
However, some folk have higher hunting standards/ethics than you on that subject, and would consider/accuse you of being a person not bothering to maintain the higher personal standard of hunting ethics/techniques, held by another individual.
They might just view you with the same level of contempt that you view those who choose to shoot unwounded cats from a truck.

First of all I said I have no opinion on Himalayan hunting because I have no idea what goes on over there. It appears I didn't word my next sentence correctly as I wrote 'but I don't think I would have a problem with spot, disembark and stalk wherever it may be, whatever the quarry may be', or something to that effect. I should have written 'I have never had an issue with spot, disembark and stalk in the hunting I have done,' so you could understand better. WTF, try and drag someone who has never been out of Africa into a debate about friggin choppers in the Himalayas! Give me patience.

Anyway, it appears you are a bit outnumbered insofar as the truck 'hunting' is concerned - how many is it to one?

One thing I know is that you would have a lot of trouble convincing any of the PH's I know that it's okay to blast away from the hunting seat. Better make sure you book with the 'right' guy because otherwise your safari may come to a grinding halt sooner than you expected.

You are just trying to wind me up, I don't care, that's happened enough in my time, I have been a member of AR long enough to take it. You know that shooting animals from the vehicle when you are supposed to be hunting is wrong. Dig deep bud, locate a principle, show it some sunlight, it must be in there somewhere.....

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I have to agree the shooting from the truck on an unwounded cat is not right unless the animal is actually charging.

The way I understand it, most here are saying something somewhat different,.. that shooting an unwounded cat from a truck is wrong, Period.

The quote from me above was meant to read ACTUALLY CHARGING WHILE YOU ARE ON THE TRUCK!

In that sittuation you wouldn't have time to exit the truck before a lion got to you! To me that only makes sense, and I doubt anyone here would disagree with that!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I have to agree the shooting from the truck on an unwounded cat is not right unless the animal is actually charging.

The way I understand it, most here are saying something somewhat different,.. that shooting an unwounded cat from a truck is wrong, Period.

The quote from me above was meant to read ACTUALLY CHARGING WHILE YOU ARE ON THE TRUCK!

In that sittuation you wouldn't have time to exit the truck before a lion got to you! To me that only makes sense, and I doubt anyone here would disagree with that!

Nobody who had a clue would disagree with that Mac. But you never know, some guys have a warped way of looking at things

Trax, please stop changing your post content so much after posting, makes it difficult to quote.

Can anyone tell me of an instance where an unwounded lion charged a truck and followed through? A real charge. Not going to happen Trax, don't lose any sleep over it. I know it has happened with elephants...

Anyway, well done, your straw clutching has enabled you to spot some mistakes I've made in my posts, like the word 'period'. That is good, you are very switched on. Now go and get some sleep so that you can be alert to clutch at straws again tomorrow

Ahhhh, you deleted it completely! Now why was that?

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

Nobody who had a clue would disagree with that Mac. But you never know, some guys have a warped way of looking at things

I didn't disagree with or misunderstand Macs post
And i may have misunderstood one of your previous posts to sounds like your saying shooting any unwounded lion[charging or not] from a truck is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

Shooting an unwounded lion from a truck is wrong, it is unprincipled, period . I think the opinion posted by other hunters on this thread says it all. As I keep saying, I believe the majority of us know inherently what is right and wrong. I knew it was wrong to shoot a lion from the back of a truck when I was at junior school....
Dave

I will alter my post as I see fit to better express myself.{maybe you should do the same, because you seem to say things like" Period" which you don't really mean]

There is no backtracking on my behalf, my view on the subject has not changed.

Cast you eyes upward for my response to your previous post which you so quickly deleted.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

Nobody who had a clue would disagree with that Mac. But you never know, some guys have a warped way of looking at things

I didn't disagree with or misunderstand Macs post
And i may have misunderstood one of your previous posts to sounds like your saying shooting any unwounded lion[charging or not] from a truck is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

Shooting an unwounded lion from a truck is wrong, it is unprincipled, period . I think the opinion posted by other hunters on this thread says it all. As I keep saying, I believe the majority of us know inherently what is right and wrong. I knew it was wrong to shoot a lion from the back of a truck when I was at junior school....
Dave

I will alter my post as I see fit to better express myself. There is no backtracking and my view on the subject has not changed.

Ja, well you should carry on doing what you can to better express yourself, there is always hope...

By the way, do you go by the name 'some guys' in real life? Jumping to conclusions there, I never said anything about you in relation to Mac's post. Read it again before you go to bed

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

There is no backtracking on my behalf, my view on the subject has not changed.

What view? That it's okay to smoke critters from the truck because you can't hold your rifle steady without propping it on the roof of the truck?

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

There is no backtracking on my behalf, my view on the subject has not changed.

What view? That it's okay to smoke critters from the truck because you can't hold your rifle steady without propping it on the roof of the truck?

This view,[as I stated more than once before],
Why not go to Africa and simply be content with the results you achieve using your own personal standard of hunting/shooting ethics, and leave others to their own methods and conscience.

No doubt there are some very skilled folk who can hold their rifle rather steady without aid of some form of rest,
despite this, even they have occasion to use a rest of some description.
No matter how good a shot I was, I would still use the advantage of a rest, if available and appropriate to the situation.

Don't even get me started about shooting tigers from the back of elephants! Those ole' Brits must have been a bit weak in the testosterone department!

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

This view,[As I stated before],
Why not go to Africa and simply be content with the results you achieve using your own personal standard of hunting/shooting ethics, and leave others to their own methods and conscience.

Trax

And if you apply it to Africa, does it also apply to the US deer, bear and other hunting ?

You'll have every yahoo and red neck in the world running around Africa in vehicles shooting everything that moves. Yes, it happens here so don't say it won't because it does and will continue to do so.

They go out day and night after "varmints" like Foxes, rabbits, pigs etc
and then before you know it, deer and other "game" species are being
spotlighted or shot from vehicles.

So it is the thin end of the wedge.

Shooting from a vehicle is NOT hunting, it is shooting or culling. I've done enough of it (legally) to know the difference and Game (as in deer, Buffalo etc) AND VARMINT's react differently when you are in a vehicle to when you are on the ground. It is piss easy to shoot animals from a vehicle, no hunting skill involved.

.

Because, unlike you Trax, I feel obliged, as a hunter, to try and uphold the fundamental principles of fairchase and to do what I can to prevent this tradition from turning into a dogshow.

FYI, we have rules here which do not allow shooting from vehicles. In fact, one has to be a certain distance from the vehicle in safari areas before he can legally pull the trigger. Can't remember the distance, but am sure one of my PH buddies will be able to tell us. Most private landowners have a similar kind of rule. Why? Because they know what is right and what is wrong. So, not only is it unethical, it is also illegal. You reckon it's still okay? Go and take a good look at yourself in the mirror.

500n,

You mean Yahoos and Rednecks are going to be willing to put forward HUGE dollars to go to Africa simply because they have a chance to shoot Africas Big 5 and other expensive animals from the back of truck?..... your too much.

The beer sloshed local country boy yahoos/rednecks in Oz mostly shoot worthless free-range Roos,rabbits and roadsigns from their vehicles....dont know about anything else.....

My previous post was in response to this

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:


This view,[as I stated more than once before],
Why not go to Africa and simply be content with the results you achieve using your own personal standard of hunting/shooting ethics, and leave others to their own methods and conscience.

Here it is, with some other laws you may want to look over if you ever decide to hunt here. I can tell you from first hand experience that the inside of a Zim Jail is not nice. I wouldn't try out your own personal standard of hunting/shooting ethics here if I was you.


National Parks Safari Areas
National Parks Safari Areas are land in more remote marginal areas, unsuitable for agriculture but ideal for game and hunting operations on a sustainable off-take basis.
• Trophy hunting may take place from half an hour before sunrise until half an hour after sunset during the hunting season.
• Hunting is not allowed at night and no hunting is allowed with artificial light.
• No Planes, electronic calls, night vision scopes, spotlights, etc are allowed to be used to assist in hunting.
• Hunting from a vehicle is not permitted, though the vehicle can be used to reach the area from where hunting on foot can begin.
• Shooting an animal from a vehicle is not permitted, a person actually needs to be 55 yards (50 meters) away from a vehicle to shoot an animal.
• No animal may be chased or driven by a vehicle.
• Hunting is not permitted within 440 yards (400 meters) of any designated water place.
• Hunting with dog(s) is not permitted.
• Handguns are allowed as a back up but not for the actual hunt.
• Bowhunting is not permitted.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
500n,

your too much.

Bit rich you saying that to anyone else on this thread

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Here it is, with some other laws you may want to look over if you ever decide to hunt here. I can tell you from first hand experience that the inside of a Zim Jail is not nice. I wouldn't try out your own personal standard of hunting/shooting ethics here if I was you.


National Parks Safari Areas
National Parks Safari Areas are land in more remote marginal areas, unsuitable for agriculture but ideal for game and hunting operations on a sustainable off-take basis.
• Trophy hunting may take place from half an hour before sunrise until half an hour after sunset during the hunting season.
• Hunting is not allowed at night and no hunting is allowed with artificial light.
• No Planes, electronic calls, night vision scopes, spotlights, etc are allowed to be used to assist in hunting.
• Hunting from a vehicle is not permitted, though the vehicle can be used to reach the area from where hunting on foot can begin.
• Shooting an animal from a vehicle is not permitted, a person actually needs to be 55 yards (50 meters) away from a vehicle to shoot an animal.
• No animal may be chased or driven by a vehicle.
• Hunting is not permitted within 440 yards (400 meters) of any designated water place.
• Hunting with dog(s) is not permitted.
• Handguns are allowed as a back up but not for the actual hunt.
• Bowhunting is not permitted.

Zim rules are for Zim.

Other areas of Africa will allow some of the practices that Zim disallows.
[Mozambique allows hunting leopards with dogs,...Sth Africa allows handgun hunting,...Namibia allows Bow Hunting]

Once its legal one can then personally decide whether its ethical or appropriate.

You have no ethical issue with using aircraft to assist a hunt, something which Zim. does not permit.
Clearly they would view your personal standards as unethical.Period.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Zim rules are for Zim.

Other areas of Africa will allow some of the practices that Zim disallows.
[Mozambique allows hunting leopards with dogs,...Sth Africa allows handgun hunting,...Namibia allows Bow Hunting]

Once its legal one can then personally decide whether its ethical or appropriate.

I speak for Zimbabwe. If they allow you to do it elsewhere then go and do it there.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:


You have no ethical issue with using aircraft to assist a hunt, something which Zim. does not permitt.

You are trying in vain to put words in my mouth but your underhand tactics will not fool many. You I would very much like to meet in person but I doubt that will ever happen because you will continue to hide behind your screen name forever. I have already corrected the wording of my response to your ridiculous Himalaya 'comparison' and you are so short of ammunition now that you are firing blanks blindly. What a waste of time and energy.....

Its not about a comparison [this Vs That] between Africa and Hym. Tahr. Its simply to demonstrate and discover what personal principles a person holds.
Hym.Tahr In the Alps of NZ aint some bizarre quest or strange alien destination, certainly nor more or less than Africa. Why you see it as ridiculous example I don't know.
No matter where a person hunts, A person carries their personal ethics with them no matter where they go,subject to the rules of the land they are in.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Its not about a comparison [this Vs That] between Africa and Hym. Tahr.
Tahr In the Alps of NZ aint some bizarre quest or strange alien destination, certainly nor more or less than Africa. Why you see it as ridiculous I don't know.
No matter where a person hunts, A person carries their personal ethics with them no matter where they go,subject to the rules of the land they are in.

I don't know anything other than Africa, that is why I stick to this forum, the African hunting forum in case you didn't realize. I have never had an opinion on hunting anywhere other than Zim. Go and debate your chopper hunting crap where it's relevant. We don't know about hunting from choppers or vehicles here and we don't want to either.

Let me help you understand.. You don't know how I see your comparison between hunting New Zealand with a chopper and hunting here is ridiculous because you are ridiculous yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:


I don't know anything other than Africa, that is why I stick to this forum, the African hunting forum in case you didn't realize. I have never had an opinion on hunting anywhere other than Zim. Go and debate your chopper hunting crap where it's relevant. We don't know about hunting from choppers or vehicles here and we don't want to either.

Low and behold a man who doesn't know anything other than African hunting, and has never had an opinion of hunting anywhere else other than Zim,
calls chopper assisted Alps region hunting "Crap"... In that sort of terrain no other form of mechanical transport makes as much sense, just like using Landcruizers to assist hunts in Africa makes good practical sense.

now we just need a know-all fool from the NZ Alps who has never been to Africa, to call Landcruizer assisted hunting In Africa "Crap"...

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Let me help you understand.. You don't know how I see your comparison between hunting New Zealand with a chopper and hunting here is ridiculous because you are ridiculous yourself.

As i said it not about comparison, ones personal ethics apply to individual situations no matter where one goes hunting in the world.
People who have hunted vastly different terrains and conditions around the world, may not view different examples of hunting [that expand a persons perspective on the subject] as being "ridiculous".
However from your apparent narrow view, I do understand how it may well seem ridiculous to you.

Have you seen ''Aodge wheels across Africa'' ? Armand Dennis ,in two early dodge 4x4s and car shooting a charging lioness with a winchester 95 from vehicle

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Let me help you understand.. You don't know how I see your comparison between hunting New Zealand with a chopper and hunting here is ridiculous because you are ridiculous yourself.

As i said it not about comparison, ones personal ethics apply to individual situations no matter where one goes hunting in the world.
People who have hunted vastly different terrains and conditions around the world, may not view different examples of hunting [that expand a persons perspective on the subject] as being "ridiculous".
However from your apparent narrow view, I do understand how it may well seem ridiculous to you.

Trax/Others:

Most African hunting Laws prohibit shooting from a vehicle - for US citizens: worth keeping the Lacey Act in mind especially when you get this kind of banter on a public forum - some people will never learn!

"Re: Lion shot with Paradox [Re: jaz]
#188519 - 25/08/11 11:55 AM
It looks as though that lion was shot from some kind of raised platform, maybe even one on top of a vehicle. Where would such an arrangement be allowed?"

This was my question with regard to the same film clip on another forum. I didn't imagine a request for information would stir up such a controversy.

I have for friends a younger couple whom I allow to hunt on my 450 acres. They are very conscientious in clearing the paths through the wooded areas and planting game plots in a (vain) attempt to lure the deer out of my soybean fields, and they also put up a number of stands, both tree stands and free standing.

I lived in Germany long enough to recognise the need for stands in a situation where bag limits are broken down to include certain number of animals of a particular trophy quality, which requires very close observation of the game animal before the shot, to make sure it qualifies as one of the permitted animals, but I don't like to hunt out of one in this country and I much prefer to hunt from the ground, strolling through the woods with my rifle, game bag and rucksack, stopping from time to time to sit peacefully at some vantage point to see what might come by. In general, my hunting method is quite successful, but not as successful as hunting from a stand, where the deer never look up and every shot is taken off a steady rest.

Although I do not choose to hunt from a stand, I am happy to have my friends do so, since the deer population on my premises is getting out of hand and the crop damage they cause is considerable.

For me, the memory of a fleeting opportunity taken advantage of and a shot well executed is more important than any trophy I might obtain, and if I occasionally miss a shot, then that's part of the sport.

I feel the same about hunting African game. Whatever anyone chooses to do within the bounds of legality is fine with me. It does nothing to my enjoyment of the sport.

However, when a law is blatently violated and then publicized on the internet, I have to draw the line. I think a professional hunter who condones such activity, let alone participates in it, should be reported to whatever organization issues his license with a view to having it revoked.

Most African hunting Laws prohibit shooting from a vehicle - for US citizens: worth keeping the Lacey Act in mind especially when you get this kind of banter on a public forum - some people will never learn![/QUOTE]


+1

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Here it is, with some other laws you may want to look over if you ever decide to hunt here. I can tell you from first hand experience that the inside of a Zim Jail is not nice. I wouldn't try out your own personal standard of hunting/shooting ethics here if I was you.


National Parks Safari Areas
National Parks Safari Areas are land in more remote marginal areas, unsuitable for agriculture but ideal for game and hunting operations on a sustainable off-take basis.
• Trophy hunting may take place from half an hour before sunrise until half an hour after sunset during the hunting season.
• Hunting is not allowed at night and no hunting is allowed with artificial light.
• No Planes, electronic calls, night vision scopes, spotlights, etc are allowed to be used to assist in hunting.
• Hunting from a vehicle is not permitted, though the vehicle can be used to reach the area from where hunting on foot can begin.
• Shooting an animal from a vehicle is not permitted, a person actually needs to be 55 yards (50 meters) away from a vehicle to shoot an animal.
• No animal may be chased or driven by a vehicle.
• Hunting is not permitted within 440 yards (400 meters) of any designated water place.
• Hunting with dog(s) is not permitted.
• Handguns are allowed as a back up but not for the actual hunt.
• Bowhunting is not permitted.

These rules do not apply to private lands, including lands leased to safari companies by tribal councils in Zimbabwe. On such lands, for instance, it is legal to shoot animals at night with artificial light. I'm not sure about the other rules.

Indy,

That is correct, this is law for safari areas. Not applicable in communal land or private land. Each private landowner has his own laws and most allow artificial light at night for certain animals, like leopard and small cats. Some allow hounds, some don't. I don't think there are any who would not allow bowhunting, and I don't think there are any who would allow shooting from the truck during daylight.

Dave