Hi Guys,

I am busy with research for a hunting vehicle as well as a design of a frame that is comfortable yet practical.

What hunting vehicle did you used while hunting Africa? What do you recommend?

As a lot of time is spend on the back of the Hunting Vehicle what was your likes and dislikes with regards to the frame and seats on the back of the hunting vehicle?

Thank you for the input.

Gerhard

Jakkals

The full size Landcruiser is immeasurable more comfortable in all respects than its smaller Toyota cousin. Having said that the smaller double cab Toyota is a heck of vehicle particulatly with diesel motor.

As for bars and seats I would suggest that the client seat in the open back have a back rest to prevent accidents. We have gone off the seat backwards a couple of times landing on somewhat rotten lion baits and amongst various sharp tools. Not good! I also would suggest a storage rack over the cab. Very handy for clients gear etc.

Mark

The animal you are looking for does not exist !


Distinct difference between a "hunting car" and a comfortable vehicle to transport clients to and inbetween hunting areas.

You essentially need a crew cab if you want a compromise and here you have limited choices.

Toyota and the rest of the rice brigade make "double cabs" whilst the only full size double cab in Africa is the Land Rover 130.

This ( the Land Rover ) imo is an option only to someone who has a lot of disposable income cause the damn thing is so unreliable.

What some have done is to buy a Land Cruiser pick up and have someone like Jan Smit Staalwerke in Pretoria convert it to a crew cab. Problem is it still remains a very expensive option.

I have been the owner of the whole lot over time, the best of the best is the Diesel Land Criuser pick -up but it's a " bakkie"...... the worst we have had. The Land Rover Range Rover. Fantastic vehicle but man does it give problems. So in short happy hunting for a very costly part of your operation 1

I don't think that anyone really makes the perfect truck for hunting. I've never come across a single double cab that's anywhere comfortable in the back and some like the Landy D/C must have been designed with midgets in mind.

Even the Toyota Landcruiser pick up which is a fantastic vehicle isn't really large enough in the load bed to accommodate a big animal plus hunting seats etc..... Sure you can manage, hell, I've had 7 people and 2 Buff in a Landrover.....but it sure wasn't comfortable.

The best vehicles sizewise have to be the big American trucks (which are to die for!) but they're not really available over here..... lets hope that situation changes.

I'm a mad keen fan of classic vehicles and with this in mind, I'm beginning to lean towards an older longbed Chevy 4x4 truck such as the K20 and then doing a restoration with my own custom preferences. They're plenty big enough to accommodate clients and big animals on the back at the same time and the single cab can easily accommodate the driver and (at least) 2 passengers.... They're also real easy to maintain.

As far as my opinions of goodies are concerned, I'll start from the front at the top and work backwards and then go underneath:

Good bull bar with a winch & pulley system that allows you to take the winch cable over the top and recover animals without too much hassle.

Good lights.

Twin battery system

Roof rack with sides on the cab.

Good rifle rack for four rifles with plenty of padding... and a bloody great sign painted on it that says "ABSOLUTELY NO LOADED CHAMBERS"

lockable toolbox/footrest for the folks on the back.

Hunting seats with good padded armrests so they folks on the back don't bang their elbows. A centre swing out armrest is also a good idea.

High side bars on the back so the trackers can sit up high..... with a swing off rear gate that can be taken off to use as a ramp for loading.

Plenty of spare wheels and 2 highlift jacks.

Steps with good footplates on both sides of the truck for the clients/PH.

Either long range tanks or spare jerry cans - jerry cans are better.

Water tank for washing all that blood and muck off when you've finished the loading.

Axe & shovel

skid plates on sump, engine, gearbox and steering protector.

Radio & GPS.

Comprehensive first aid kit.

At least 2 12v charger outlets

Of course not all this necessary all of the time. A lot depends on where you'll be taking it but that's a few of the things I can think of offhand...... I'm sure others will add to the list.

Toyota HZJ79 with their 4.2L diesel.


The Toyota Hi-lux, Land Rover Defender etc can't compair when it comes to longterm reliablity, and parts availablity all over Africa.

If you have Lou Hallimore's book "In the Salt" there is a description of the perfect (in his opinion) hunting vehicle. I think it is based on the Toyota Land Cruiser pick-up, with a gasoline engine as it is much quieter with the proper muffler.

Jakkkals
Although I love Land Rovers, I must agree with ALF that they are totally unreliable. IMO shakari got it closest to perfect. (BTW, we had 9 people and 2 buff on, landy nearly wrecked after that...) I would start with a Land Cruiser, diesel, especially if you plan to hunt outside of SA, for availablity of fuel. Also, for the slow driving/ diesel stalking/ looking for spoor its lower rev/ high torque is preferable. I have an extra winch in my toolbox, that flips up, attach to my rollbar, and used to load buff and other heavy animals via a pully system on my "back rollbar". Also, have a good tree protector in the vehicle, not so much for the tree, but to limit damage to your cable from winching with the hook looped over the cable. If hunting SA only, a good double cab makes sense as well. (Toyota or Nissan IMO, never a Isuzu.)

If your after a reliable LandRover take a look at the Santana PS-10

Santana used to make LandRovers under lisence for the Spanish Army and the PS-10 is their own take, developed when the lisence agreement ended...It looks a good, solid no frills vehicle available at a variety of trim levels...No need to buy a yuppie interior if its going to be all bloodied up from hunting!

Whether they will ever become available in Africa is a different matter...

I hunted in an open land cruiser with the windshield kept down all the time. The PH drove, I was shotgun with the trackers on elevated seating behind us. Real nice to only have to step out of a vehicle rather than climb or heaven forbid for my back jump out.

The vehicle needed a winch especially in 1997 when everything was still soaking wet in the Midlands of Zimbabwe in May.

They did use high jacks to get the vehicles out of the mud but the local made ones were inferior to the one the outfitter had gotten from Canada.

The vehicle also only carried a single battery. At that time local and even South African batteries were notoriously pathetic. We were where CB reception was spotty at best.

The vehicle also needed a spot light of some kind.

To handle big animals they had a rather large thick rubber mat they connected to the hitch with chains. The animal was dragged over to a large tree and they then used a come along to put the animal into the back of the truck. They did not field dress their animals in the field as a rule.

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
Toyota HZJ79 with their 4.2L diesel.


The Toyota Hi-lux, Land Rover Defender etc can't compair when it comes to longterm reliablity, and parts availablity all over Africa.

Eric,

Are those still in widespread production? I was under the impression they are now only produced in certain South American countries for the local market???

I think a LWB Defender is probably better off road, but as an allrounder the LandCruiser is a better hunting vehicle...The Defender with the various TDi engines, has got to the stage where its just too complex...having said that, you could say the same for the latest Land Cruisers too..

regards,

Pete

Pete,

The Toyota HZJ79 (which is the pickup) and the Toyota HZJ78 (which is the stationwagon) is still produced in Japan with the trusty 4.2L diesel, and sold to all "less developed" regions such as Africa. It is used by many NGOs operating in Africa, in addition to the UN.

HZJ78:


They are brought into Europe by http://www.toyota-gib.com/ , but last time I checked, they only sold them to NGOs etc.

As for offroading abilities, the Defender 110 is superiour in many regards due to the Defenders suspension. I know this for a fact from hands on experiance. But the HZJ78/9 will undoubtably outlast a Defender quality wise.

The HZJ78/9 4.2L engine that is sold to the NGOs etc has much less electronics than the 4.2L engine sold in the other Land Cruisers. But all of them have some electronics nowadays.

With that said, our Defender 110 TD5 worked without a single problem thru 65.000 km of Africa, and is still going strong now that it's back here at home.

Eric,

One of my main complaints about the Defender is the drivers seating position; its crammed against the drivers door to make room for that third seat or cubby in the middle..

The old 4.2L Nissan Patrol was another reliable old tub that went on for ever...They were quite popular in Australia, but I don't know about Africa??

Regards,

Pete

.

We have a few vehicles as no one vehicle will meet all requirements as we have to cater for hunters and non hunting safari game viewers as well.

Here are a few pictures ( not ideal views of them ) taken on the ranch in Limpopo Province South Africa, BUT they give you a general overview of some basic options on offer


Land Cruiser & other general purpose


Old Land Rover which we have adapted for hunting & game viewing


Land Cruiser which has been adapted


Twin cab for general road use and also basic game viewing option

WE have TWO other (general purpose) road use Land Cruisers as well, one used in South Africa and the other used to travel from South Africa to Zambia either via Zimbabwe or Botswana

AND also in Zambia we have another ( Zambia Registered) Land Cruiser not really adapted with a rack as it is a dual purpose people mover and game carrier type dual option, I dont have a picture of it )-:

At the end of the day to put it mildly it is [ HELLISH EXPENSIVE ] to efficiently operate THREE game ranches with suitable vehicles in two countries over a 1,300 kms apart from one another

Cheers, Peter

My dad and I are looking to design our own version of a "perfect hunting truck" soon. We will probably start out with one of the 4 door Toyota Tacomas in 4WD V6. We are going to weld a receiver onto the top of the bed, attached to the frame. We will then be able to slide a safari style bench into it and hold it in place with pins so that it will be able to be removed whenever we want. There will also be a place behind it to slide in another bench, so that the two benches are back to back, not both facing forward. Both will have ladders attached to both sides. I think that will be very nice for traversing the Texas landscape.

Thank you for the response.

It does not matter how you look at it, to start your own operation is a enormously expensive exercise.

For interest sake what color do you prefer on the vehicle?

Gerhard

Alf and ErikD, I agree with you on most points, especially the Land Rover being superior for off-road use as is (from the dealers floor). The Cruiser has 4 problems IMO-
1) a foot too long at the back
2) no diff-loc of any kind
3) too heavy for mud and real sand
4) overpriced

That being said, I still believe it to be the best best for a safari vehicle. reasons
1) it will outlast any Land Rover
2) you can relaibly load 2 buffalo / eland / kudu on it and not have to replace it every 2nd year.
3) with diff-loc fitted front and rear, and a good winch, there is not a lot of places that you will get stuck
4) it has a huge loading tray, even with a box fitted on the back
5) if you ever have to transport fuel/ supplies the extra weight capacity and loading space makes a huge difference.

I have fitted mine with a front and rear diff loc (ARB), and now I can drive the same routes that formerly the Land Rover boys bragged about as being their sole territory. BTW, mine is the 4.2l diesel pickup. I am also a rabid Land Rover supporter, but for a reliebale hunting vehicle, you cannot compare the 2. the cruiser wins hands down also against his cousin, the Hilux.

I'd agree that the Landcruiser is the better vehicle when compared to Landrover but (IMO) the loadbed is still far too small to make a good hunting vehicle....... but should they ever make a longbed version it'd be great. Actually, maybe I should say, if they ever import a longbed version. I was in Tanzania last year and the Game Dept had some longbed Landcruisers, but I don't know ifthey were ex-factory or custom jobs.... bloody nice though!

The standard one sells in RSA for around R300,000 without air con.

As Karl says, the front & rear diff locks would make a big difference....

.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Erik:

The problem is this guy sits in South Africa and is bound by what is available locally in South Africa.

Importing cars is not an option, the import duties are HUGE !

As it is new 4x4 prices in relation to income earned per annum by the man on the street puts these vehicles into the luxuary car category.

I am a die hard Land Rover fan, always have been and always will be but sadly I have to confess they are a huge pain in the butt and especially with the way Land Rover operates their service in South Africa. It is appalling !

When reading the consumer feedback on vehicles Land Rover have the worst reputation of all the vehicles available!
It is likely the worst run after sales operation on the continent !

Just to give you an idea on prices:

Defender 110 pick up : SAR 264,000
Defender 110 wagon: SAR 312,000
Land Cruiser VX: SAR 763,000
Land Cruiser p/u diesel: SAR 307,000
Toyota double cab 4.0 L: SAR 317,000

At an exchange rate of 5 to one for the dollar we are talking 50,000 dollar plus vehicles here !

ALF,

I don't quite get your point about what is available locally??? The standard Toyota HZJ79 is the same as the "Land Cruiser p/u diesel: SAR 307,000 " you mention.

If you're referring to the HZJ78 (stationwagon), I only showed that to Pete out of interest while on the subject. And realize it isn't brought in to RSA. Or at least was told it wasn't a couple of years ago. Although I seem to recall that they are available in some of the nearby countries, as I saw several in Namibia that were being used by local tourist operations. (These might have been imported for all I know though).

As for the crappy Land Rover service in RSA, I am sad to say I know this after dealing with LR in Nelspruit. They didn't have a clue...

So IMO, as I mentioned but was maybe not totally clear about, the Toyota is the best option out of what is available (even though none are perfect as a hunting vehicle).

Ps. Did you get my PM regarding a ZG47?

.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
Alf and ErikD, I agree with you on most points, especially the Land Rover being superior for off-road use as is (from the dealers floor). The Cruiser has 4 problems IMO-
1) a foot too long at the back
2) no diff-loc of any kind
3) too heavy for mud and real sand
4) overpriced

That being said, I still believe it to be the best best for a safari vehicle. reasons
1) it will outlast any Land Rover
2) you can relaibly load 2 buffalo / eland / kudu on it and not have to replace it every 2nd year.
3) with diff-loc fitted front and rear, and a good winch, there is not a lot of places that you will get stuck
4) it has a huge loading tray, even with a box fitted on the back
5) if you ever have to transport fuel/ supplies the extra weight capacity and loading space makes a huge difference.

I have fitted mine with a front and rear diff loc (ARB), and now I can drive the same routes that formerly the Land Rover boys bragged about as being their sole territory. BTW, mine is the 4.2l diesel pickup. I am also a rabid Land Rover supporter, but for a reliebale hunting vehicle, you cannot compare the 2. the cruiser wins hands down also against his cousin, the Hilux.

Karl,

Difflocks really do make a differance as you mention. And even with the Land Rovers long wheel travel, we would have stopped up many a time had it not been for having ARB locks both front and back! Both in muddy conditions with no traction, and in rocky conditions where even the Defenders suspension had unavoidable wheel lift that would have otherwise stopped us.

Difflocks also make it possible to drive slowly and carefully (thus with "mechanical sympathy"), where the only option for vehicles without difflocks are using speed to "crash" up/over an obsticle. Which can break things...

The Hi-lux is a good vehicle, but everything is smaller/weaker than the fullsized HZJ79. Including axles ect.

But for many people, it's still tougher than they'll ever need.

An all-in-one vehicle, forget it!
Like Alf said:

quote:

The animal you are looking for does not exist !

Jakkals, if you are looking for a hunting vehicle to take clients out into the bush to hunt and to recover game hunted, this is it:



You can have it build according to your specs or just get the basics and DIY from thereon.

Sent me a PM if you're interested.

Hi Jagter

It looks like a "verkeerd-om" military Buffel ("buffalo"). Why not post specs on the site, I for one would love to see it, and I am sure others will as well.

No one has posted anything on the Uri either?!

Regards, Karl Stumpfe

Buffel it is!

Visit Als and see some more other types of vehicles, game viewing & fire fighting, etc.

The web site is in Afrikaans only - local guys in Potchefstroom - you tell them what you want and they build it!

Price will depend on your specifications.

What is an 'Uri'?

An uri is a lightweight vehicle, basically a serious pipe car, for all kinds of off road fun! Originally build in Namibia, close to Koës, later in Gobabis, but apparently they now have a factory in SA as well. Will see if I can find a picture in my collction, and try and post it.

go to www.uri.com.na for more info on the uri.

NO one has mentioned Unimogs either. Newer ones are extremly expensive, but older ones can be found now and then for far less money. I know of a few PHs who have used them with good results.

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
The Toyota HZJ79 (which is the pickup) and the Toyota HZJ78 (which is the stationwagon) is still produced in Japan with the trusty 4.2L diesel, and sold to all "less developed" regions such as Africa. It is used by many NGOs operating in Africa, in addition to the UN.

Oi you strawhead Northernor!

I am willing to bet more of these two models are sold in Australia than the rest of the world combined. Or close to it anyway.

Great vehicles for outback stations, mining companies, smart farmers etc.

The cab model is known as a "troopie" (slang for a troop carrier). The traytops are great too.

.

quote:

At an exchange rate of 5 to one for the dollar

Canadian Dollars right?
Current US exchange at about R6.40?

Otherwise it would be ridiculous in US!!!

Someone noted how the Amercan trucks would be good because of size.

They are (unecessarily?) huge with engines large enough to drive a supertanker but apparently are very unreliable, have major quality control issues and are full of gimmicks?

A friend of mine in BC runs an operation that takes care of a bunch of parks facilties in the Upper North Thompson region. As a side, he is a complete car fanatic (www.datsunhistory.com).

Of the 17 trucks they use, only one is a Dodge, the rest are all Toyotas. He reckons they are the best he buy in Canada and refuses to use any NA brand like Ford/Chev/GM etc etc due to various issues?

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:
The Toyota HZJ79 (which is the pickup) and the Toyota HZJ78 (which is the stationwagon) is still produced in Japan with the trusty 4.2L diesel, and sold to all "less developed" regions such as Africa. It is used by many NGOs operating in Africa, in addition to the UN.

Oi you strawhead Northernor!

I am willing to bet more of these two models are sold in Australia than the rest of the world combined. Or close to it anyway.

Great vehicles for outback stations, mining companies, smart farmers etc.

The cab model is known as a "troopie" (slang for a troop carrier). The traytops are great too.

John,

It's just like I said: sold to all "less developed" regions, such as Australia!!!

Sorry for not mentioning your country. But you are right of course, and a lot of used Troopcarriers from Oz are shipped over to Europe actually since they aren't generally available over here.

The Australian version of the Toyota pick up is available over here as a special order. The local 4x4 dealer here in Nelspruit (Dakar 4x4) imported a few last year and they sold like hot cakes.

Erik,

I was surprised to learn the Landcruisers didn't have diff locks as standard! Although your ARB's seem to *the* afer market diff lock of choice for serious off roading, didn't your Defender have the electronic traction control???
Its been standard on Discos and RR for a while now and I thought it was available on Defenders too...I was very skeptical about it at first but having been in a couple of Disco's that were using it, I was very impressed...Both vehicles performed far better in mud and snow ect than non equiped vehicles although I still don't think they are as reliable as ARB locks..

Regards,

Pete

shakari, apparently SA toyota will start selling the Aussie Land Cruiser next year in SA, that is why they have the 0% interest on their new Cruisers. Thats what I have heard, anyway, not ben confirmed.

Pete,

Our Defender does have ETC, and it does help in a lot of instances. And ETC is undoubtably better than a vehicle without in general. But when things really get difficult, it can't be compaired to fully locking the front and rear diffs (after locking the center diff first of course, which is also vital when using ETC like it should be). But, the thing with ETC is that anyone can use it without damaging things. Which is not the case with lockable diffs. It's quite easy to snap a halfshaft with the diffs locked if the driver doesn't really know what he's doing. So generally I'd say locking diffs are for those with special needs, and a bit more skill than the average 4x4 owner.

A couple of other good difflock makers are Maxi-Drive and McNamara(supposedly the best on the market). Both from Australia, as is ARB.

.

Alf, thanks for putting the size of the country you live in now in perspective for us in SA.

Down here a F250 is very big and more than enough!

Back to hunting vehicles, (off road in other words - yet good enough to take the game rancher quickly into town as well to pick up something needed on the ranch) looking at the Uri web site I think this light and very versatile vehicle is going to have some impact in future in South Africa as far as this need goes. Once it's SABS approved I think you will see more and more of these on farms, game ranches, etc.

Thanks Karl S for letting us know of these Namibian entrepeneurs.

.

I think Alf's right when he says there'a no such thing as the ideal hunting vehicle available in SA at the moment......and the URI & Unimog (ish) are just far too agricultural for long distances. which is why I like the idea of taking a big American pick up truck and adapting it yourself. Start with a good donor vehicle with something like the old unburstable 350 V8 engine, rebuild it properly, (the transmission train is strong as hell) and go from there with your own preferences of customisation. It'll also be a lot more comfortable than any of the new vehicles on the market.

As far as spares are concerned, in reality they're not a problem. Even here in White River when I needed pretty much any spare for my Landrover Disco it had to be ordered from Jo'burg at the nearest....... the same can be said for the Chevy's etc. The difference is that as long as you have a half inch spanner and a hammer, you can work on the older vehicles yourself whereas most if not all of the newer vehicles either need a computer or a heap of special tools and a fundi.

The worst vehicles (IMO) for Africa are the Landrover/Range Rovers..... I've had about 6 or 7 over the years and after my last Disco I'll never go near another one.....every time I turned the key on the bloody thing, it went wrong and cost me a fortune.

My 26 year old Jeep Wagoneer is tons more reliable and comfortable to drive, has considerably less overall running costs and is a doddle to work on......