At Bubey Valley Conservancy (BVC), Zimbabwe, clients get charged for the use uf wifi. How is that in other hunting camps? It‘s not a big amount but I find it odd. Nowadays interned is standard like toilet paper, a client in an expensive lodge shouldn‘t get charged for something like that.

BVC also tells the client beforehand how much tip is expected. To me both facts sound highly unprofessionell.

Run

Infrastructural development is slow here. It's not like the 'States or Europe where wifi is everywhere and almost (if not) for free. Bubye may well have V-Sat (which works even in times of unrest when the government may be trying to restrict connectivity) or some other expensive link like air fibre. So, perhaps they're trying to recoup costs. At any rate, the real question is whether you have queried or discussed this with them and what their reply was.

If they have no landline connection, and only use sat modem, then you have to pay.

It is very expensive via satellite., and I would not expect them to foot the bill.

It costs several thousands Dollars for satellite Internet on safari.

I don't charge a fee and find the service useful for me in camp.

Nor do I mention a gratuity unless asked.

For what it was worth- We got the shock of our life when we worked out what we were paying for wifi- it amounted into thousands over the year. I am afraid I can understand why Bubey have done that.

I hunted there in 2014. My wife and granddaughter used the WIFI, don't remember how much but was no big deal. As far as the tips, I was NEVER told nor was it ever recommended how much to give, I usually ask advice to get an idea. You are dealing with the individual PH on that.
My advice, go and have a great adventure. BVC is a special place, you will make memories that will last a life time.

it Costs us about $3,500 for 3 weeks Internet.

And we have to be careful of media transfers.

You get 30GB fair use.

Anything above that and you are charged ridiculous amount of money.

Sending a photo taken by the iPhone on Whatsapp can cost $12 dollars!! If yo exceed your data.

The modem costs several thousands Dollars too.

So I bet they wish to recover some of their costs.

In one camp I am aware of, a family with 2 teenage kids ran a bill of almost $3,000!

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
For what it was worth- We got the shock of our life when we worked out what we were paying for wifi- it amounted into thousands over the year. I am afraid I can understand why Bubey have done that.

That I didn't know. Living in South Africa I'm used to quite reliable and cheap Internet.

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Originally posted by Sunshine:

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
For what it was worth- We got the shock of our life when we worked out what we were paying for wifi- it amounted into thousands over the year. I am afraid I can understand why Bubey have done that.

That I didn't know. Living in South Africa I'm used to quite reliable and cheap Internet.

Living and hunting on a farm where one has 24 hour power and landline Internet is not the same as hunting in a camp in the middle of nowhere, where one has power for certain hours, and communications are only available via satellite is very different.

I think the family I mentioned above had the same shock!

I think the charge is fair, the equipment is spendy.

I wouldn't be using it anyway if I were in a hunting camp. That $3000 would buy a few more animals on a hunt. Picture posting can wait until I get home!

Who was your PH that told you how much you had to tip?

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Originally posted by ledvm:
Who was your PH that told you how much you had to tip?

Valid question but I won‘t disclose the name. Don‘t want to spoil my forthcoming hunt...

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I think the charge is fair, the equipment is spendy.

I wouldn't be using it anyway if I were in a hunting camp. That $3000 would buy a few more animals on a hunt. Picture posting can wait until I get home!

I don't need or want the Internet when I am hunting. I go on safari to get away from all that.

Hunted BVC last fall. I think it was something like 10 or 15 USD for Wi-Fi. No big deal and it was nice to be able to WhatsApp the family back home. Some fancy hotels still charge for good internet service. I asked PH about tipping guidelines. Don't remember being told I had to tip anything. Of course it was a wonderful hunt and I did leave tips.

Might depend on the PH that you are using to hunt the BVC. I do know that the one first-hand experience that I recently discussed in the 'resurrected' "Tipping Again" Post was on the BVC. And, like Sunshine, I won't disclose the name. Just be aware of the possibility that it may be a topic of conversation if you hunt there, and be prepared. I do know this, that neither time that I hunted there was I directly approached by any of my PHs with a tip sheet. However, on my first hunt there, my hunting partner was, and after the conversation with his PH, he came to my rondavel highly upset, wanting to discuss with me his experience. As to charges for WiFi, I never experienced that on either hunt there.

Gary Duckworh was kind enough to let me use the WiFi at Mokore for free. I used it to check email and work stuff. I really like being in a camp with WiFi. In 5 minutes one can get a nice rundown of info that would take forever on a sat phone call.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Who was your PH that told you how much you had to tip?

Valid question but I won‘t disclose the name. Don‘t want to spoil my forthcoming hunt...

The list is quite small anyway.

Lane: I can think of at least 14 PHs that have either hunted or still hunt the BVC: Lance Nesbitt, Ade Langley, John Sharp, Peter Ficke, Martin Nel, Shaun Buffee, Mark Bristow, Brent Hein, Kevin Thomas, Pete Bernard, Cliff Walker, Craig Robinson, Dean Stobbs and Scott Guthrie. Not sure if that fits a small list definition or not. It certainly is larger than the small group of 4 or 5 that most people associate or have typically associated with the BVC. And, I am sure that there are others that have hunted there or do occasionally hunt there, that I can't recall or don't know about.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
it Costs us about $3,500 for 3 weeks Internet.

And we have to be careful of media transfers.

You get 30GB fair use.

Anything above that and you are charged ridiculous amount of money.

Sending a photo taken by the iPhone on Whatsapp can cost $12 dollars!! If yo exceed your data.

The modem costs several thousands Dollars too.

So I bet they wish to recover some of their costs.

In one camp I am aware of, a family with 2 teenage kids ran a bill of almost $3,000!

In Zambia we are using a VSAT system which costs about $1,500 to install and a service charge of about $200 a month. Nowhere near what you are paying!

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:
At Bubey Valley Conservancy (BVC), Zimbabwe, clients get charged for the use uf wifi. How is that in other hunting camps? It‘s not a big amount but I find it odd. Nowadays interned is standard like toilet paper, a client in an expensive lodge shouldn‘t get charged for something like that.

BVC also tells the client beforehand how much tip is expected. To me both facts sound highly unprofessionell.

Sunshine, the wifi in the Bubye Valley Conservancy is via satellite, and the installations in 9 camps was very expensive, as are the monthly charges. I do not believe that anyone is compelling you to make use of it. It was installed because many businessmen requested it.

Gratuities are, and always have been, at the discretion of the client. To my knowledge only guidelines are offered as the vast majority of people do ask. You are not compelled to give anything. Most people do give generously as they are fully aware of the financial problems in the country, and realise that the staff struggle constantly to get by with the exorbitant prices charged by vendors for food and other necessary commodities. The US$ gratuities are a lifeline to them, but always at the client's discretion.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Lane: I can think of at least 14 PHs that have either hunted or still hunt the BVC: Lance Nesbitt, Ade Langley, John Sharp, Peter Ficke, Martin Nel, Shaun Buffee, Mark Bristow, Brent Hein, Kevin Thomas, Pete Bernard, Cliff Walker, Craig Robinson, Dean Stobbs and Scott Guthrie. Not sure if that fits a small list definition or not. It certainly is larger than the small group of 4 or 5 that most people associate or have typically associated with the BVC. And, I am sure that there are others that have hunted there or do occasionally hunt there, that I can't recall or don't know about.

To the best of my knowledge any licensed Zim PH with a decent reputation is welcome to sell/conduct a hunt in BVC with quota allowing, date openings available, and with the approval of Blondie Leathem which he usually grants with the above criteria met.

That said policy on Wi-Fi and policy on tipping is set by the will of the smaller core...which was the gist of my post above.

Here are the facts as I see them. The client base for African Safaris has shrunk drastically over the 20 years I have been going and watching it. This year’s SCI convention attendance volume should be a shot across the bow for all operators.

Tipping has always been a slightly uncomfortable point to African hunting...hence all the long heated threads on that subject here.

I personally know avid hunters who are financially capable who will never spend another dime there due to the negative feelings they acquired from the “tipping experience.”

I personally have witnessed it go from a quiet discrete personal matter to a more public uncomfortable affair.

Americans have become accustomed to discretionary tipping but in a private manner that lets them give in accordance to ‘their own assessment’ of services provided and know they are ‘fully in charge’ of the amount.

Many people have left Africa (as mentioned...some to never return) with a feeling of coercion on the tips. It does not matter how many well respected PHs and Outfitters come on and say it is totally discretionary...that is not reality of how ‘many clients’ feel after leaving.

Tipping needs to be made into a more comfortable situation in which clients feel in charge of their destiny and their true feelings reflected in their tips. Right now...it ‘sometimes’ mimics walking down a crowded street full of beggars.

Americans are used to tipping their wait staff 10-20% of billing. We are used to it being up to us. And, we are NOT used to people standing around waiting to see how much we are going to tip.

A list...if to be used...would be best served giving to clients in the beginning before the deposit is paid and the hunt booked. As we who regularly go know...it HAS become a part of the overall bill. That is simply the truth.

Giving someone an expected or customary tipping chart for the first time when the client is already in camp...is a recipe for making fewer returning clients. You can take this from a person who runs service based high-single transaction-fee high-grossing companies.

quote:

And, we are NOT used to people standing around waiting to see how much we are going to tip.

Yep.

I give a tip as a reward, that‘s what a tip is for. Which means maybe not everyone will receive a tip...

When it comes to the financial situation of the staff, what has the hunting client to do with other people‘s employees? It would be better to pay them good wages and don‘t let them beg from client to client.

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Tipping has always been a slightly uncomfortable point to African hunting...hence all the long heated threads on that subject here.

Apart from those Operators and PHs do not mention it.

I have few issues tipping in Africa. I like tipping the staff and all the people in camp. For the PH I view it as a tack on cost to the hunt.

For the staff I view it as best bang for buck charity I do. There is no massive organizational structure so prevelant in most large charities. I know who I am giving money too and those $$$ have real material impact in their lives.

I also try and leave as much back as possible and try to take as much stuff as I can to give to the staff.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:
I give a tip as a reward, that‘s what a tip is for. Which means maybe not everyone will receive a tip...

When it comes to the financial situation of the staff, what has the hunting client to do with other people‘s employees? It would be better to pay them good wages and don‘t let them beg from client to client.

Has your PH been begging from you Sunshine? If so, please let me know so that I can try to fix this in-house issue. I am quite well connected in the BVC.
It is sad that you don't seem to realise that we are forbidden by our government to pay our staff in US$.
It would be very unprofessional of us all to allow other clients to experience what you feel you have been subjected to, so please, do let me know your full concerns. I will pass them on to management who will do their very best to ensure that something like this never happens again.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Tipping has always been a slightly uncomfortable point to African hunting...hence all the long heated threads on that subject here.

Apart from those Operators and PHs do not mention it.

As far as I am concerned only no class professional hunters and outfitters keep bringing it up in their offers.

The real gentlemen never mention it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Tipping has always been a slightly uncomfortable point to African hunting...hence all the long heated threads on that subject here.

Apart from those Operators and PHs do not mention it.

As far as I am concerned only no class professional hunters and outfitters keep bringing it up in their offers.

The real gentlemen never mention it.

Hence this could have been a really short post.

I ve been to BVC twice and going again this year and having been on several Africa hunts, BVC is one of my favorites. I ve never been asked for a tip but asked for advise from PH for staff, and for PH I based it on his effort and the experience. Having said that, for staff it is expected as pointed out above. The problem in SA now at resturant is that a tip is added irrespective of meal.....guess what? service often sucks. For fair chase, animal spectrum, beauty, and experience BVC is hard to beat. Also, in some camps you can get phone reception.

This thread raises the question about sound business acumen and management.

Do operators know their overheads, direct and indirect costs, variable & fixed costs and their break even for each Safari?

Do they do their budgets based on agreed price & accurate costings or do they just do rough calculations and use thumb rules and let the accountant sort out the details later?

If operators did some serious detailed costings and budgeting BEFORE setting pricing, promotions etc, they could easily avoid such silly confusion and "sticker shock".

They need not mention tips at all as all costs plus profits are covered and any tips are then a total bonus for exceptional service.

I don’t think it’s as easy as your saying because trophies are not added until the Safari is over but yes if the area is good then most likely more trophies are added which is a bonus and reward of the operator and his team.

Pretty easy solution to the wifi problem, we've rented a unit from Andy Cool at Explorer Satellite to handle our internet needs while hunting in Africa. As for tipping, I haven't yet had any PH or outfitter express expectations of tip amounts, but if I did, the tip would likely not meet expectations and no repeat hunt would be in the offing, either.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
This thread raises the question about sound business acumen and management.

Do operators know their overheads, direct and indirect costs, variable & fixed costs and their break even for each Safari?

Do they do their budgets based on agreed price & accurate costings or do they just do rough calculations and use thumb rules and let the accountant sort out the details later?

If operators did some serious detailed costings and budgeting BEFORE setting pricing, promotions etc, they could easily avoid such silly confusion and "sticker shock".

They need not mention tips at all as all costs plus profits are covered and any tips are then a total bonus for exceptional service.

Naki:

I could not agree more!

Basic business practices could prevent a lot of problems.