I got a message telling me that one of the major operators who were offering canned hunts is no longer in business.

Ras Safaris. Which were discussed here on a number of occasions, with videos on youtube that clearly show drugged lions being shot.

I found two links to them, one has a message that they have been suspended.

The other only show a page of text.

That's great new, They were really bad for the hunting buisness.

Unfortunately I have to admit that I had nothing to do with it.

Come to think of it, a trophy that I would really like a lot - and I'd like to get a lot of them - is a "certificate" of some sort that states that I was instrumental in [A Gold Medal Trophy] or played a major role [A Silver Medal Trophy] or even just made some contribution to [A Bronze Medal Trophy] the actions that led to the suspension and putting right out of business a Hunting Outfitting firm that offered true "canned shooting" dished up as a "hunt". [Much as I detest "captive bread lion released "shoots" I do not have any real problem if the true facts are exposed to the "shooter". But scumbags that allow idiots to shoot drugged animals needs to be removed from the scene alltogether.]

In good hunting.

Here was an article about Hugo and Anton Ras' alleged activities in Namibia.


Namibia: Hunter Bolts With 'Fortune'

25 June 2010

Windhoek — A South African hunter has disappeared with a fortune that belongs to hundreds of cash-strapped villagers in the Caprivi Region, where he won a contract to hunt elephants, lions, buffaloes and leopards.

Other game hunted by the fugitive, whose trickery could only worsen the plight of these rural communities, included hippos, crocodiles and duikers.

A recent New Era investigation has discovered that the hunter owes two conservancies in Caprivi in excess of N$700000 in hunting fees.

Morgan Samupwa, the Manager of Balyerwa, a conservancy located between Mudumu and Mamili national parks, both endowed with a staggering array of wildlife, yesterday said the hunter-turned-fugitive owes the conservancy N$136000 from an elephant hunt. The manager of Wuparo Conservancy, Cebens Munanzi, confirmed that the hunter, a sharp shooter with skills akin to a sniper who, under the name of Kuzuma Safaris, gunned down elephants, hippos, buffaloes, kudus and lions for wealthy clients, owes the conservancy N$600000.

Speaking at a ceremony at Balyerwa last year, the Minister of Environment and Tourism, Netumbo Nandi-Ndaitwah, tongue-lashed and threatened to "blacklist" uncouth professional hunters, who ruthlessly deprived conservancies of hunting fees.

Namibia's conservancy legislation, the Nature Conservation Amendment Act of 1996, enables rural communities to register conservancies for the purpose of sustainable utilisation of wildlife by selling curios and basketry products and trophy hunting.

Government also introduced the Human Wildlife Self-Reliance Scheme through which communities, whose crops are devoured by hippos and elephants, will have a means to offset crop and livestock losses from ruinous nocturnal activities of wild animals.

The hunting camp and the tourism lodge and the scenic traditional village in Balyerwa Conservancy provide jobs to 62 villagers from Samahiya, Nongozi, Kazwili, Mambali, Lyanshulu and Sauzuwo, among numerous others, who benefit through sustainable use of wildlife and trophy-hunting and other tourism-related activities.

During the next hunting season, Balyerwa Conservancy has been authorised to hunt six elephants.

One of the elephants will be for the conservancy's cultural activities, six hippos, of which one will be for "cultural activities", and another for their chief.

Ten buffaloes will be hunted, eight of which will be for trophies, one whose venison will be distributed to villagers for their pots, while the other one will be for the chief. Two leopards will be hunted, and the authorised kill of a single lion is guaranteed to rake in an income of N$92000 for the community. There will be guaranteed income of N$16000 from one of the crocodiles that will be hunted for Balyerwa Conservancy where hunting quotas for warthogs, roan and sable antelope have been granted in 2010.

Contacted for comment, Dr Kalumbi Shangula, Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Environment and Tourism, said he was not aware of the disappearance of the South African professional hunter.

Ben Beytell, the Director for Parks and Wildlife Management, to whom Shangula referred New Era, is on leave and his deputy, Colgar Sikopo, was attending a meeting. None of the conservancies have a clue where the hunter has absconded to with their money.



Here were my comments on the subject at the time.


Well, it didn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure this one out. Could it be that Kuzuma Safaris and Ras Safaris of Elliras, South Africa, are one and the same? It appears to me that they are.

http://rassafaris.blogspot.com...hunting-safaris.html NOTE: this blog now blocked and only available 'by invitation only'.

Hmmm, Anton and Hugo Ras, now where have I heard those names before???

Oh yes, now I remember. I was told, but can't confirm, that Hugo Ras was the commanding officer of Dawie and Janneman Groenewald when they were in the South African Police Service (SAPS). Whatever the case, it does appear they at least served together and have been involved in business for many years.

Now, everyone here remembers Dawie and Janneman... don't they? And Janneman's (then) wife, Terrrresssaaa Groenewald Hagerman.

The blond whose ass all those drunken old fools at the SCI fundraisers thought they would be following around the bush for two weeks???

Remember them?

Maybe you remember them better as: OUT OF AFRICA.


I wonder if this has anything to do with the upcoming court trial of their close friend and associate Dawie Groenewald and the Out of Africa rhino poaching syndicate???

It seems as if Hugo may be running a game lodge for the South African hotel giant, Orion Group, who claims 'Our people are the stars in our quest for stellar performance'.

Orion Safari Lodge (Hugo Ras) in South Africa



It also appears that Hugo may have exclusively bought all his elephants from one source, Shambala Game Reserve (Douw Steyn). It is nice to have a cozy relationship with a trusted supplier.

Relocated elephants from Shambala Game Reserve (Douw Steyn) in South Africa



And, for inquiring minds that want to know more about the Orion Group, here is an overview from their website. Spectacular growth since 1991 to the tune of an alleged US$87.4 million. Stellar performance indeed.

Orion Group

ORION GROUP

Founded in 1991 by CEO Franz Gmeiner, the ORION GROUP's property assets have grown from an initial eleven-story office tower in downtown Johannesburg to a property portfolio in excess of R600 million. This is a direct result of the expertise and experience of Orion management and staff. 'Our people are the stars in our quest for stellar performance' says Gmeiner.

Broadly speaking, the ORION GROUP consists of 5 divisions - ORION REAL ESTATE LTD, ORION FACILITIES MANAGEMENT, ORION HOTELS & RESORTS, ORION BUSINESS SOLUTIONS & ORION REAL ESTATE. The group is spread over five provinces in South Africa as well as in Swaziland & Lesotho.

Over the past 14 years, the ORION GROUP's vision has evolved from property ownership and facilities management to the formation of ORION HOTELS & RESORTS in June 2000. The GROUP's business focus is to acquire, maintain and develop facilities on a global scale. These facilities will compliment the commercial, industrial, retail, residential, catering and hotels portfolio.

The first independently owned hotel, ORION HOTEL DEVONSHIRE is located in BRAAMFONTEIN, Johannesburg. Other hotels in the ORION portfolio include the ORION SAFARI LODGE in RUSTENBURG, ORION MONT-AUX-SOURCES in NORTHERN DRAKENSBERG, ORION HOTEL PROMENADE in NELSPRUIT, ORION PIGGS PEAK HOTEL & CASINO in SWAZILAND, ORION WARTBURG HOTEL IN NATAL & KATSE AND MOHALE LODGES in LESOTHO.

The ORION GROUP plans to manage 25 hotels in Southern Africa through acquisitions, Black Economic Empowerment, joint ventures and management contracts within the next five years. These hotels will have the advantage of being well-managed boutique style hotels and will maintain the highest standards.

ORION REAL ESTATE LTD listed on the Johannesburg Securities Exchange in March 2006 through the take over of Alpina Investments Ltd. ORION REAL ESTATE LTD owns and manages a portfolio of offices, retail centres, industrial warehouses, commercial properties and apartment buildings.

ORION FACILITIES MANAGEMENT is an independent fully fledged facilities management company that performs the full spectrum of activities. ORION FACILITIES MANAGEMENT manages investment properties on behalf of ORION REAL ESTATE LTD, a family trust and numerous individual investments.

The ORION HOTELS & RESORTS DIVISION, known for quality service, provides a guest experience that both meets and often exceeds expectations. Each hotel, while retaining its original name blended with the ORION brand, has a unique character. This approach ties in with the GROUP's strategy of taking existing hotels with a proven record of accomplishment and adding a winning management philosophy, so that the hotel takes on a new lease of life.

ORION BUSINESS SOLUTIONS provides internally shared services to the ORION GROUP, as well as a variety of BEST PRACTICE MANAGEMENT consultancy and HUMAN CAPITAL services to a variety of clients.

At the cornerstone of the company's success is its people management philosophy, which is to accomplish 'extraordinary results with ordinary people'. This philosophy is based on a Human Resources model, which is built around a team-based organisation. Together with Team and Executive Management Coaching and a performance driven approach, the ORION GROUP has all the essential elements that are necessary to achieve superior business results and it will therefore continue to be successful in the future.



Here is a notice from African Indaba about a 2004 article in the Mail and Guardian detailing Hugo Ras' canned elephant operation.

Mail & Guardian reported on July 9th that South African professional hunter Hugo Ras is selling "canned" elephant hunts to clients. Police and conservation officials are said to be investigating the "hunting" of a bull within hours of its delivery. Ras is reported to have said that the bull had broken out of a camp andwas shot by a US “hunter”. 3 other bulls have allegedly been delivered to Orion Safari Lodge near Rustenburg and Ras claimed to have obtained a hunting permit from the NW authorities before their arrival at Orion. The clients are said to be charged up to $50000 for an elephant. The operator’s own costs in buying the elephantsand moving them to the hunting destination are unlikely to amount to more than $15 000. The bulls were allegedly bought by Ras from the Sabi Sands game reserve. Sabi Sands has sold about 80 elephants to private buyers in the past 2 years and plans to sell off more family groups.

Mail & Guardian also reported that Ras has faced a number of charges of illegal hunting in Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal. According to M&G, Limpopo officials say they are investigating him in connection with further irregularities in that province. They are also trying to find out the fate of 4 lions Ras has moved to Orion. The lions were wild-caught at a reserve in Limpopo and sold under the condition that they must be free-ranging.

African Indaba could verify that Hugo Ras is NOT and NEVER has been a member of the Professional Hunters' Association of South Africa (PHASA).


Apparently, things have not been completely copacetic in paradise, as these last two articles attest.


18 Jun 2010 - I-Net Bridge

A BIG-game and cattle farm in Zeerust comes under the hammer at a liquidation auction on June 30 when Ubique Auctioneers of Potchefstroom will sell the farm Rietfontein owned by Hugo Ras Safaris, as well as movable goods on site.

On sale are portions one and two of the farm, measuring 2859ha in total. The farm is fenced off with game fencing of 21 strands, five electric strands, as well as one electric strand just above the ground.

It has a large, constant dam with three hippos and crocodiles.

Improvements to the farm include the main building, consisting of a lounge, dining room, four bedrooms, with an office on the second level as well as sleeping facilities.

Other amenities include two chalets with a swimming pool, braai area, and a second lodge consisting of four chalets with the necessary facilities. There is a landing strip of about 1km long.

Outbuildings include two large iron and brick sheds, a workshop, butchery facilities and a cold room.

A lion camp houses five young and two adult lions.

Water is provided from two equipped boreholes.

The game consists more or less of three elephant, nine giraffe, 12 eland, 215 blue wildebeest, 381 impala, 68 blesbok, 58 red hartebeest, 249 kudu, 73 waterbuck, 15 njala, 14 zebra, eight ostrich, as well as reebok, springbok, and warthog.

Among the movables are a Tata light delivery vehicle, a CAT front-end loader, a tractor, a dam scraper, a hammer mill, fire-fighting equipment, a Ford truck with 2500l tank, welding equipment and compressor.

Trophies on sale are a sable with lion on back, and shoulder mounts of rhino, hippo, elephant, kudu and waterbuck.

The auction is due to take place on June 30 on site at 10am.



Source: Business Day

Zeerust game farm has own landing strip A BIG-game and cattle farm in Zeerust comes under the hammer at a liquidation auction on June 30 when Ubique Auctioneers of Potchefstroom will sell the farm Rietfontein owned by Hugo Ras Safaris, as well as movable goods on site.

On sale are portions one and two of the farm, measuring 2 859ha in total. The farm is fenced off with game fencing of 21 strands, five electric strands, as well as one electric strand just above the ground. It has a large, constant dam with three hippos and crocodiles.

Improvements to the farm include the main building, consisting of a lounge, dining room, four bedrooms, with an office on the second level as well as sleeping facilities.

Other amenities include two chalets with a swimming pool, braai area, and a second lodge consisting of four chalets with the necessary facilities. There is a landing strip of about 1km long.

Outbuildings include two large iron and brick sheds, a workshop, butchery facilities and a cold room. A lion camp houses five young and two adult lions. Water is provided from two equipped boreholes.

The game consists more or less of three elephant, nine giraffe, 12 eland, 215 blue wildebeest, 381 impala, 68 blesbok, 58 red hartebeest, 249 kudu, 73 waterbuck, 15 njala, 14 zebra, eight ostrich as well as reebok, springbok and warthog. Among the movables are a Tata light delivery vehicle, a CAT front-end loader, a tractor, a dam scraper, a hammer mill, fire-fighting equipment, a Ford truck with 2 500l tank, welding equipment and compressor.

Trophies on sale are a sable with lion on back, and shoulder mounts of rhino, hippo, elephant, kudu and waterbuck.

The auction is due to take place on June 30 on site at 10am.

Allan, Out Of Africa Leased Luwafi Game Reserve In Tanzania in 2010 may be they have moved to Tanzania.

Another example of where the "if it is legal, it's no problem" dogma falls down. Some things are just wrong, legal or not, and if we don't clean up our act we will lose the whole show.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
A typical Ras canned lion hunt

Kabubi Kabubi !!

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Another example of where the "if it is legal, it's no problem" dogma falls down. Some things are just wrong, legal or not, and if we don't clean up our act we will lose the whole show.

Absolutely right.

Then factor in the combination of You Tube, unethical outfitters and stupid bastards who book with them for whatever reason and the loss of the whole show just might happen sooner than we think.

quote:

Absolutely right.

Then factor in the combination of You Tube, unethical outfitters and stupid bastards who book with them for whatever reason and the loss of the whole show just might happen sooner than we think.

So what are you going to do when a bunch of videos start surfacing of how they kill cattle for food and people are disgusted with the process? Now they want to outlaw your steak. There is no difference to the antis, and you have made them stronger.

Yesterday I was watching an episode of Andrew Zimmeren about Bizzare foods.

It was filmed in Syria, and they showed how a camel is slaughtered.

Andrew mentioned that all meat eaters should see how meat get to their table, including the slaughtering process.

My hat is off to him.

quote:

Yesterday I was watching an episode of Andrew Zimmeren about Bizzare foods.

It was filmed in Syria, and they showed how a camel is slaughtered.

Andrew mentioned that all meat eaters should see how meat get to their table, including the slaughtering process.

My hat is off to him.

I'll one up you. I think every kid should have to kill and butcher an animal at least once in their young life. Make it interesting. Like a condition for a teenager to get a drivers license.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
So what are you going to do when a bunch of videos start surfacing of how they kill cattle for food and people are disgusted with the process? Now they want to outlaw your steak. There is no difference to the antis, and you have made them stronger.

I don't think videos such as the one posted above have anything to do with the abbatoir comparison but I do believe videos such as that can do nothing but harm to African hunting and hunters.

(IMO) It's like waving a red rag at a bull and is an open invitation to antagonise not only the antis but also the general public.

quote:

I don't think videos such as the one posted above have anything to do with the abbatoir comparison but I do believe videos such as that can do nothing but harm to African hunting and hunters.

(IMO) It's like waving a red rag at a bull and is an open invitation to antagonise not only the antis but also the general public.

So instead of fighting the harder battle of educating the public about the difference between hunters and wankers, you would wrather restrict other peoples rights and privileges????? We have been doing that for years. Just like hiding in shame and not showing pictures in public. The more we have restricted the fringe tangeants of "hunting" the more strength we have given the anti groups. Like I have said on here before, many of the "hunters" on this website are better anti-hunters. Don't be a speciest and think there is any difference between killing chattle in pens and that lion on the video. No, it is not hunting. Yes it should be legal to do it to all animals if you can do it to one. The reason for it should not sway law. I don't care if you want to step on a roach, kill a chicken to eat, or kill lions in pens. Just don't call it hunting.

You want to talk about people who wave red flags at bulls? You know what happens when a man waves a red flag at a bull don't you???? Start being a man Shakari, quit worrying about the cloth in your hands, and start deciding whether you have the balls to deal with the bull like a man.

I never said I want to restrict anyone from doing anything....... just that IMO, such videos on you tube etc don't do hunting and/or hunters any good at all.

It's hardly good publicity is it?

I am however, all for educating the general public about the benefits of ethical sport/trophy hunting and a large part of our website is dedicted to that very thing.

Openly publicizing footage or photos of events which may cause controversy to the benefit of people or organizations whose aim it is to put a stop to those particular events can and should be avoided IMO.

Talking of red flags and bulls....where have they gone and to whom do the Spaniards owe this favour?....the "Launched Pigeon Shoot" also gone, thanks to the same bunch of do-gooders.

As stated before: ...I've been there, done it and don't give a damn about the next generation if it won't listen to advice....so keep feeding the greenies.

It is up to us to police our own. If we allow, and defend unethical behavior, then we endorse it.

I refuse to be seen in the same light as these two douche bags pretending to "hunt" a Lion. Let's stand up, as a group of ethical sportsmen and say, "This is wrong and this is not what hunting is about."

Anti's dont need our criticism on an unethical act to condemn us, they simply need the unethical act. Without our condemnation of this behavior, we condone it. It stands alone as a monument to hunting.

I do agree that we should not bicker about hunting styles. Dogs, feeders, blinds etc. If it is a regionally acceptable and legal practice, keep your opinions to yourself.

Unity, whether in condemnation of a despicable act, or in support of a legal method of hunting (despite one's own opinion) is necessary to preserve our sport.

quote:

Openly publicizing footage or photos of events which may cause controversy to the benefit of people or organizations whose aim it is to put a stop to those particular events can and should be avoided IMO.

No! To ever let any of those organizations ever think they have a hope in hell when it comes to deciding anyone's fiscal future when they have no risk fiscaly themselves nor does it endanger their welfare, is childish behavior. The general mind set that you should boss people around and legislate because you disagree with their practices, that don't cost you a dime and are plenty safe to those not involved, is childish BS. Grow some balls and tell anti-hunters to mind their own business and shut the f*!k up , instead of hoping nobody waves a red flag at them and they come after you. I have news for you. They are dogs without teeth. The only power they have is what you bunch of nuttless wonders have allowed them.....so keep feeding the greenies.

quote:

It is up to us to police our own. If we allow, and defend unethical behavior, then we endorse it.

Wendell, They are not your own!

They are not hunters. Should you police a guy who kills a chicken just because one day he video taped it???????? Or should you do it because some asshole with nothing better to do decides to call butchers, hunters?

Killing the poor lion drugged up in the pen isn't unethical, but it ain't hunting either. Let these guys go form CKCI (Chattle Killers Club International) and go fight their own wars, and next time a greenie tells you those guys are hunters knock their block off for insulting you. Quit playing the mamby pamby political games with these bitches.

quote:

Quit playing the mamby pamby political games with these bitches.

Tell 'em bro! I believe it is the time to confront the anti-hunters in the same manner that they confront us. If they throw blood on you, throw a slurry of feces and urine back on them. If some cunt slaps you, give him/her/it an open hand round house and knock it's face on the other side of it's head.

I often wonder why the 'hunt saboteurs' in England are not ambushed and thoroughly caned by the hunters? I mean, if the antis show up with clubs, why not meet them with equal force?

Alan,

Mate, maybe it's different in the US but believe me, if you did as you describe in the UK, the silly laws would land you in chokey before you could say 'tally ho'.

Then there's the fact that the (UK) antis are seriously nasty and do things like run long term PR (completely untrue) campaigns telling all the neighbours that so and so is a convicted paedophile or other criminal... or they'll send letter bombs or put bombs under your car etc.

They got hold of one guy some years ago, held him down and branded him right across his back..... and if I remember correctly, he was just a reporter who had written a story about what evil bastards they were..... he wasn't even a hunter.

About 18 years ago I was targeted by one bunch of these lunatics and the cops had me looking under not only my own car before I drove it but also under the cars of my wife and stepson before they drove theirs.

My post was also redirected to a secure postbox so it could be scanned for explosives and all my phone calles were recorded and traced..... and all that shit went on for more than six months before they decided to move onto a less secure target.

Despite all that, if you retaliate in any way, the system treats you as the criminal.

If you want an example of how crazy UK law is, try doing a Google on 'Tony Martin shoots burglars'.

It ain't funny when they target you and it's even less funny when they target your family as well.

Believe me buddy, a can of paint over your car is the least of your worries...... and you sure as hell wouldn't put a pro hunting sticker of any kind in the car window.

quote:

Mate, maybe it's different in the US but believe me, if you did as you describe in the UK, the silly laws would land you in chokey before you could say 'tally ho'.

Then there's the fact that the (UK) antis are seriously nasty and do things like run long term PR (completely untrue) campaigns telling all the neighbours that so and so is a convicted paedophile or other criminal... or they'll send letter bombs or put bombs under your car etc.

They got hold of one guy some years ago, held him down and branded him right across his back..... and if I remember correctly, he was just a reporter who had written a story about what evil bastards they were..... he wasn't even a hunter.

About 18 years ago I was targeted by one bunch of these lunatics and the cops had me looking under not only my own car before I drove it but also under the cars of my wife and stepson before they drove theirs.

My post was also redirected to a secure postbox so it could be scanned for explosives and all my phone calles were recorded and traced..... and all that shit went on for more than six months before they decided to move onto a less secure target.

Despite all that, if you retaliate in any way, the system treats you as the criminal.

If you want an example of how crazy UK law is, try doing a Google on 'Tony Martin shoots burglars'.

Believe me buddy, a can of paint over your car is the least of your worries...... and you sure as hell wouldn't put a pro hunting sticker of any kind in the car window.

They behave this way because yall have inabled them. The first asshole over here that assaults a kid over hunting is going to have hell to look forward to.

We already have laws here if you simply disturb hunters in a way that can be considered harrasment you will loose your vehicle, tens of thousands of dollars in fines, and maybe jail time. Don't be intimidated by these pussies. Time for the UK and SA to do whats right in the face of fear.

Steve,

That is why you cover your face like they do while you beat their asses. I wonder why the UK laws don't work equally against the hunt saboteurs?

Meet force with force, I say. If anyone sent me a bomb, the law is the last thing I would be considering for protection.

If the anti-hunters didn't get me on the first try, the luckiest angel in heaven would not be able to protect them.

Smart

I didn't enable them at all.... if I had my way, I'd shoot the bastards and then shoot any survivors and that's one of the reasons I moved out of the UK.

I'll happily fight for my rights, esp my right to enjoy the freedom to hunt but I have to say, there's no way on God's earth, I'd lift a finger to help people like Ras Safaris or the idiots who book with them.

Alan,

You're right, they're cowards but unfortunately in the UK, they're cowards who have more rights than the hunter.

As for rights.... try doing a Google on the EUSSR human rights act and you'll hardly believe what you read!

Here is the case Steve was referring to. The mistake Tony Martin made wasn't killing the burglar, but getting caught doing it, and not taking out the other one. When you get to court on a shooting, it is better if there is just one story told.


Life for farmer who shot burglar


The Guardian, Thursday 20 April 2000

Tony Martin, the Norfolk farmer who shot a teenage boy in the back as he tried to burgle his isolated farmhouse, was yesterday found guilty of murder and sent to prison for life at the end of a case that touched a raw nerve across rural Britain.

In spite of cries of "yes, yes" and "I hope you die in jail" from the family of 16-year-old Fred Barras, the farmer - flanked by two police officers after receiving threats on his life - remained unmoved.

Martin was found guilty of murder by a jury of six men and six women who had earlier given not guilty verdicts on charges of attempting to murder another man, the burglar Brendon Fearon, and of possession of a firearm and ammunition with intent to injure life. He was found guilty of wounding Fearon with intent to kill.

Passing three sentences of life, 10 years and 12 months to run concurrently, Mr Justice Owen said: "It seems to me that this case serves as a dire warning to all burglars who break into the houses of other people.

"The law is that every citizen is entitled to use reasonable force to prevent crime. Burglary is a crime and a householder in his own home may think he is being reasonable but he may not be reasonable and that can have tragic consequences."

Martin killed Barras, a market trader from a Gypsy travelling family based in Newark, Nottinghamshire, last August during a late-night incident at his farm. The teenager, who had a number of convictions, was on his "first big job" to burgle Martin's home, Bleak House. He and Fearon were attacked by one of the farmer's rottweilers as they tried to get away.

The court heard that Martin, who had a vitriolic hatred for burglars and Gypsies, had come downstairs with a pump-action Winchester shotgun and fired at the two men.

Barras had pleaded for his life, shouting: "I'm sorry. Please don't. Mum." In panic, Fearon, who was seriously injured, pulled out a rotten window and he and Barras jumped through. It was not until the next afternoon that the teenage boy's body was found.

Norwich crown court heard that Martin - who took a 4ft teddy bear with him to court every day - had been repeatedly burgled and that he had laid booby traps and lookout posts for anyone who came onto his property.

Peter Tidey, the chief crown prosecutor for Norfolk, said: "Actions such as that taken by Tony Martin cannot be tolerated in a civilised society. When people break the law it is for the law to punish them, not for individuals to take the law into their own hands, whether acting out of revenge or their own individual system of justice."

The Barras family, who attended the court in large numbers every day, last night issued a statement saying: "As Fred's family we cannot and do not condone his actions. We are aware that he had failings and would have expected him to be dealt with and punished in the criminal justice system. He was not given that chance."

The verdict will be greeted with horror by the farmer's many supporters across the country who believed he did the right thing. Yesterday morning as he arrived in court an official passed on a handful of letters of support to add to the hundreds he received throughout the case.

A close friend of Martin, Malcolm Starr, said: "I'm absolutely devastated by the outcome and to be quite honest I think the whole country will be genuinely gobsmacked.

"If people were put away for longer for burglaries then they would not have been there and they would not have been shot."

The media agent Max Clifford, who gave Martin free advice, said last night he believed the conviction was a miscarriage of justice.

Martin's mother Hilary, 86, said it should have been the burglars in the dock and not her son. She added: "I am shocked. I am disappointed. I can't believe it. Because of this verdict decent people will not be able to sleep at night. He was merely defending himself against people who were thieves and vagabonds."

Martin's solicitor, Nick Makin, said he would appeal.

TM was eventually freed after some years of appeal but the truth is he should have been given a medal rather than a jail term.

He was an old man who been repeatedly burgled, had his life threatened by these do as you likeys and was shit scared of them. He'd been to the police repeatedly to ask for help and been given absolutely no support whatsoever but then when he's in fear of his own life he shoots to scare the burglars off and kills one by mistake, he's jailed.

Incdentally, the pikey that survived has been getting disability benefit for his wounds ever since and has just been caught cheating on them because it turned out he was as fit as a flea.

If that isn't bad enough, try doing a Google on UK jail terms for rape, paedophilia or murder and you'll see that most get 'indefinite jail terms'...... which sounds great...... until you read the next line that usually says he must serve at least 4/5/6 years in jail.

Personally, if I was the judge, I'd give them a suspended sentence....... As in suspended by the neck until dead.

quote:

Personally, if I was the judge, I'd give them a suspended sentence....... As in suspended by the neck until dead.

quote:

I didn't enable them at all....

You and millions of others who were too scared to make a stand because you night end up in the "chockey" have. Sometimes knocking a guys teeth out is worth risking a night in the clink and a fine. Think about your kid who will never be able to be a hunter next time instead of whether you are going to have to spend a couple of days in a jail.

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:

quote:

I didn't enable them at all....

You and millions of others who were too scared to make a stand because you night end up in the "chockey" have. Sometimes knocking a guys teeth out is worth risking a night in the clink and a fine. Think about your kid who will never be able to be a hunter next time instead of whether you are going to have to spend a couple of days in a jail.

Yup, that's right. It's the fault of all us old bastards who made the laws in about 1215 AD.

As for knocking a guy's teeth out, that little bit of grandstanding would mean a lot more than a night banged up in a cell. It'd also mean immediate and probably permanent withdrawl of all firearms licences, a possible jail term and a criminal record at the very least. The old expression of 'don't get mad, get even' is sometimes worth remembering.

Like I said, I moved out of the UK because I detest the BS of political correctness but unfortunately, the Brits don't enjoy the same rights as you Americans..... although admittedly, it's at least partly their own fault.... After all, what would you expect from a nation that had the good sense to get rid of the monarchy and then let them back in again.(That wasn't my fault either becuse I wasn't there).... and indeed that was stupid enough to elect a liebour government for 13 years of destroying the country.

You colonials did the right thing when you revolted, although you might have shown better taste when it came to slinging all that good tea into the briney!

Steve

Half our problems over here would be over if we would just apologize politely to HER MAGESTY and give her the original 13 colonies back.

I would miss Virginia and South Carolina but it might be worth it to get rid of the east coast.

SSR

And before I am accused of hijacking --look where liberal anti hunting votes are.

quote:

As for knocking a guy's teeth out, that little bit of grandstanding would mean a lot more than a night banged up in a cell. It'd also mean immediate and probably permanent withdrawl of all firearms licences, a possible jail term and a criminal record at the very least. The old expression of 'don't get mad, get even' is sometimes worth remembering.

"Daddy, why can't we go hunting or have firearms?"

"Well son, Grandpa was scared of some greenies that said really, really mean things to him. And he was scared if he did anything manly he would have a record and might not be able to have a gun anymore. So now you can enjoy your boring life with no chance of owning a gun, and this apartment that is just like a prison cell since greenies have put an end to outdoor sporting. Aren't you glad Grandpa was a scared Pansy? So am I son. So am I."

This episode of Steve Robinson, Anti-hunter! was brought to you by Tampax.

Guys We are only talking about africa... if it was arabs or its South african the problem remains the same in continent.no one cares who hunts where...We still contribute to the same issues... create an NGO.... LIKE TEMBO FOUNDATION.....Keep ON...

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Alan,

Mate, maybe it's different in the US but believe me, if you did as you describe in the UK, the silly laws would land you in chokey before you could say 'tally ho'.

Then there's the fact that the (UK) antis are seriously nasty and do things like run long term PR (completely untrue) campaigns telling all the neighbours that so and so is a convicted paedophile or other criminal... or they'll send letter bombs or put bombs under your car etc.

They got hold of one guy some years ago, held him down and branded him right across his back..... and if I remember correctly, he was just a reporter who had written a story about what evil bastards they were..... he wasn't even a hunter.

About 18 years ago I was targeted by one bunch of these lunatics and the cops had me looking under not only my own car before I drove it but also under the cars of my wife and stepson before they drove theirs.

My post was also redirected to a secure postbox so it could be scanned for explosives and all my phone calles were recorded and traced..... and all that shit went on for more than six months before they decided to move onto a less secure target.

Despite all that, if you retaliate in any way, the system treats you as the criminal.

If you want an example of how crazy UK law is, try doing a Google on 'Tony Martin shoots burglars'.

It ain't funny when they target you and it's even less funny when they target your family as well.

Believe me buddy, a can of paint over your car is the least of your worries...... and you sure as hell wouldn't put a pro hunting sticker of any kind in the car window.

Steve:

You are not alone in having received death threats. Years ago, when I wrote a twice-weekly hunting and fishing column for our local newspaper, I received at least one every year. One was so graphic that I sat down with our sheriff and asked for protection (I lived outside the city). He politely told me that there was nothing he or his deputies could do if someone wanted to kill me.

The threats were bad enough, but what really frosted me was the way teachers and school administrators treated my daughter because her father was widely known as a killer of animals.

I took my complaints to the school board when a science teacher told my daughter she should be ashamed because her father helped "exterminate" the mountain lion and bison. Nothing came of this, except that particular teacher stopped harassing her. Others did not.

The next year, an English teacher singled her out and assigned a series of anti-hunting books for her to read and report on.

All this happened a long time ago, so it's nothing new. My daughter now is 53.

Bill Quimby

Bill,

The threat to me didn't both me too much but the threat to my family made me spitting mad..... made worse by the fact that I was unable to identify where/who it came from.

Ditto for me, Steve. Having three or four elementary school teachers harass my daughter certainly made me angrier than all the death threats that I got from anonymous animal rights defenders.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Another example of where the "if it is legal, it's no problem" dogma falls down. Some things are just wrong, legal or not, and if we don't clean up our act we will lose the whole show.

I like that idea in general, but what worries me in that approach is who decides where the line is? Who decides what's right and wrong? some things are crystal clear, black and white, but there are plenty of gray areas.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
It is up to us to police our own. If we allow, and defend unethical behavior, then we endorse it.

I refuse to be seen in the same light as these two douche bags pretending to "hunt" a Lion. Let's stand up, as a group of ethical sportsmen and say, "This is wrong and this is not what hunting is about."

Anti's dont need our criticism on an unethical act to condemn us, they simply need the unethical act. Without our condemnation of this behavior, we condone it. It stands alone as a monument to hunting.

I do agree that we should not bicker about hunting styles. Dogs, feeders, blinds etc. If it is a regionally acceptable and legal practice, keep your opinions to yourself.

Unity, whether in condemnation of a despicable act, or in support of a legal method of hunting (despite one's own opinion) is necessary to preserve our sport.

To a degree I don't really worry about the anti's, there's nothing that can be done to change their mind, it's the undecided I worry about, those whose position on the issue that can be changed one way or another that need to get the message about hunting and conservation.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by smarterthanu:
So what are you going to do when a bunch of videos start surfacing of how they kill cattle for food and people are disgusted with the process? Now they want to outlaw your steak. There is no difference to the antis, and you have made them stronger.

I don't think videos such as the one posted above have anything to do with the abbatoir comparison but I do believe videos such as that can do nothing but harm to African hunting and hunters.

(IMO) It's like waving a red rag at a bull and is an open invitation to antagonise not only the antis but also the general public.

I took a personal approach to this topic when I found my secretary at work was a PETA fanatic. Never said a word to her, but raised rabbits while raising my daughters. They saw me routinely butchering the rabbits and came to treat it as a matter of course.

I knew I'd made my point when one night at supper my oldest daughter asked, "Is this Beverly?" while munching away. She didn't turn a hair when I replied "Yes, she rejected her litter again."