Hello Guys,

sorry to ask this question, but...

I have been shooting a .338 Win Mag, quite comfortably, 20 rounds at the bench with no real fatigue or loss of ability.

I am looking to buy a bigger caliber, and am considering the 375 H&H or the .416 Rem.
Primarily the rifle would be used for big game here in the US, but I would like to bring it to Africa.
A rifle instructor friend recently took a lady new to firearms from shooting a .22 LR to the 375 H&H proficiently. She used it in Africa to take 3 Cape buffalo and an elephant. He said that she shot it very well, but he thought that the 416 would be too much for her.

Since I only want to buy the one rifle for now, what would you reccomend?
Also, I have been looking at the CZ's and Winchester M70's. Any advice?

Finally, as my move to Germany is rapidly approaching, does anyone know if these calibers are restricted there?

Thanks in advance,

Paul.

IP,

There are no caliber restrictions for the two calibers you mentioned in Germany.

If you are moving to Germany from another EU country and your current local firearms paperwork is in order you should not have any difficulties here.

Most UK residents do not possess a Hunting License. I recommend obtaining one from the UK (if that is where you are moving from) since if you do not have recipricating paperwork from another EU country it will be almost impossible to obtain a German Hutning License. Whether or not you possess a Hutning License will also determine the type of Weapons Ownership Card you will receive for your firearms, Hunting or Sport-Shooting. You will have difficulties reistering a .375H&H or a .416 Remington on a Sport-Shooting Card.

PS - your original question. If you are able to comfortably handle a .338 Win. Mag. stepping up to the .375 H&H should be no big feat. The .416 Rem. Mag though, is another kettle of fish! My suggestion would be to go with the .375H&H.

G'day, I'd have to second Gerry on that, and also, with the 375H&H you can get ammo for it pretty well anywhere, if you run short. The 416Rem? Another story altogether.
Don't get me wrong, I use a 416Rem. But I make my own cases out of 375H&H, and the recoil is no problem for me, yet.
If you do not reload, get a 375H&H. It will do everything you ever need from a cartridge, especially if you have a PH backing you up.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

Either the CZ or the Winchester will do fine, just that one is a damn sight cheaper than the other.
From memory, a lot of PH's in various parts of Africa use CZ's in either 375H&H, 416 or 458, depending on where they are.
A PM to Ganyana might help you choose, he is a mine of info about the CZ's.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

Everybody,

thanks for the quick replies.

I am currently in California, with a CA Hunting license and Hunters Safety Certificate - I don't know if that is useful in Germany.

Before I left Ireland, I had an Irish hunting license, and I am sure that I can renew that easily enough.

Gerry, any advice on how to obtain a German hunting license - such as a link to a web page - would be greatly appreciated. It doesn't matter if it is in German or English, I will get the girlfriend to translate!

Sambar, a close friend of mine owns a gunstore, so I can get either rifle at cost, but I will check into both. Thanks again.

If you have a .338 I would opt for the .416 for sure !!

The 416 is a super cartridge and will reach out and touch with authority...As a DG rifle the 375 is the minimum and will do a superb job, but I want more then the minimum it mys hands if something goes wrong...
You may even consider getting a letter from police in Ca. stating you arr a law abiding citizen and the owner of the rifles you have..

Mike

You have a .338 then the logical progression would be to the .416. The .416 does have more recoil than a .375, but it is also a better dangerous game round. If buffalo and elephant are in your future, I would select the .416.

Shoot the .416 off the bench as little as possible, just enough to get sighted in. Then shoot it from sticks and off-hand, you won't notice the recoil as much. From the bench, the .416 can be a bit of a kicker.

Regards,

Terry

I have a 338 Win Mag and when faced with the same delima ended up picking the 416. There was too much overlap in the ballistics of the 338 and 375 so the 416 became the obvious choice. I just started shooting the 416 and have only shot 400 grain Noslers at ~2400 fps so far, the recoil is very manageable out of my 9 1/2 lb. gun. The difference in percieved recoil between the 338 and 416 is negligable, try one and I think you'll agree. If you don't reload the 375 may be more cost effective but don't shy off the 416 because of recoil worries.

I would also recommend the 416 Remington. The combination of the 338/416 would handle everything from plains to dangerous game. I currently have all three, but if I could just keep two, it would be the 338 & 416.

You shouldn't have any problems with learning to shoot the 416, since you don't have any problems with the 338's recoil.

If you really are going to go cape buffalo and elephant hunting, the .416 is the choice. I really do think it would be better for your situation. My .375's recoil is not even really noticeable. The .416 is not that much worse.

I had the same decision when I started to think about Buffalo, after hunting all the game North America had to offer. I was shooting a .340 Wby and a couple of .358 STA's (which I consider superior to the .375 H&H), therefore I opted for a Model 70 Winchester Safari Classic in the .416 Rem. After shooting the .416 a couple of years then hunting the Selous for Buffalo, I can say that for me it was certainly the right decision. Yep, the .375 H&H is a classic and has killed tons of game in Africa, but in my opinion, until you get into the faster .375's, you are better off with the utility of the .416's on dangerous game. If you are afraid of recoil and shoot the .375 H&H for that reason only, so be it, use one as many others have. Good luck and good shooting.

If you are going to be in Germany if your budget can handle it try Ritterbusch custom gunmaker. He is completely out of "off the shelf" gun's league. African Hunter magazine has some pictures of Ritterbusch guns that are out of this world. As to the decision between the .416 and the .375 there is no right or wrong choice. Since your first rifle is a .338 you might go larger with the .416 but remember that really only two animals, the elephant and buffalo should be shot with the biggest gun you can handle, everything else can probably shot with the .338 (laws re the lion aside). Unless you are going to shoot ele, lots of buff or maybe a rhino, then the .375 will be more comfortable to shoot and would be a better choice.

I would agree with the recommendation to buy the 416 since you already have the 338. I have taken african game with all three but IMO the 416 does stand head and shoulders above the other two for the big stuff.I can not tell any significant difference between the 338 using heavier bullets and a 375. With practice you can become very effecient with the 416 Rem Mag. I would also choose the M 70 Win Safari. I have several CZ's but I like the M 70 somewhat better. Also, unless it's recently changed I think the CZ are only available in 416 Rigby. A fine caliber for sure but expensive ammo and could be more difficult to come by.

If memory serves, Craig Boddington has mentioned that in his opinion a 338 teamed with a 416 would be a very hard combo to top, and it's hard to argue with that thinking.

I've used the 375 H&H quite a bit, and to me it's a 'neither fish nor foul' cartridge. For large, non-dangerous herbivorous game, I can't see that it hammers stuff any better than a 300 or a 338 does, plus it doesn't shoot as flat, and it's heavier to carry, as is the ammunition.

So I want a lighter, flatter-shooting rifle on the low end, and a bigger hammer on the other end. So this season, I'm teaming my old reliable 300 Win. Mag. with a matching 416 Rem. Mag., and I'll likely stick with this combo for the next season as well.

Mostly, the 375 H&H stays in the safe these days........

AD

Go 416 Rem. and shoot it a lot. Get a very thick recoil pad and maybe a deadmule in the butt stock if necessary. CZ doesn't chamber the Rem in a 550, so you'd be better served with a Mod 70.

.416

I used that and a .270 for everything in Africa and North America, (soon the South Pacific)

After 5 safaris in Zim my PH, (who by the way shoots a .375), went out and bought a .416, he was very inpressed by the way my performed.

The .416 and .270 is all I use

.375 Weatherby or Saeed's equivalent

The ballistics put it at a slight advantage in ft.lbs and trajectory over a 400gr. .416 rem mag. Recoil is slightly less and it can be downloaded to .375 H&H velocity or recoil AND will accept .375 H&H ammo also.

Just a thought. Sort of like using a .458 Lott with the possibility to use .458 Win mag. ammo in a pinch.

quote:

Originally posted by mufasa:
If you are going to be in Germany if your budget can handle it try Ritterbusch custom gunmaker. He is completely out of "off the shelf" gun's league. African Hunter magazine has some pictures of Ritterbusch guns that are out of this world.

Well ritterbusch is just about perfect...

But if you by such a gun, iwould take the 416 Rigby instead of the 416remmag. No belt not that excessive pressure!

I am one of those who would go with the 416 caliber since you already have a 338. If your 338 is a Model 70, there are some good arguments to get Model 70 in .416 Remington. If your .338 is a Remington or some other make, then I would go with the CZ 550 Magnum in .416 Rigby. If you hold a European passport and you can swing it in (Ireland?) than you should try and get the European Arms Passport. It is a travel document for all of your firearms. In France it is issued by the Prefecture where you live. I have all my smoothbores and rifles listed in this document. No customs hassles going through any Euro borders.

Paul

I love my 375 dearly just because it has been with me on quite a few memorable adventures but if it was a 416 I'd be just as happy. The 416 just hits harder and shoots almost as flat. It is a perfect pairing with your 338 for anything worldwide.

Regards,

Mark

All of you need to put your hands on your heads and feel for warmth. There have been 20 posts to this topic and hardly anyone has stated he should go with an altogeather different caliber than what he has asked about. You must all have a touch of the flu. You are all being so helpful and uncontrary I almost thought I was on the wrong forum.

Irish, all kidding aside these guys are a great wealth knowledge (sometimes they even know what they are talking about)- use it to your advantage. But for heavens sake get a model 70 in 458 win mag and have it converted to Lott!

Since you can handle the .338 so well, here's another vote for the .416. The combo of a .338 and a .416 for a plains game/dangerous game safari would be a terrific way to go.

BTW, I've never been able to tell much difference between the recoil of a .338 vs. a .375.

A .338 and a 416 is about the perfect combination for anywhere in the world, I have used that combo many times and never regretted it.....

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

Looks like the .416 will be my choice.

I know for sure that both calibers are prohibited in Ireland, so maybe they will have to stay here in the US.
I am fortunate enough to have a house in Ireland and Germany, and a place to keep my gunsafe here in California. It would just be a sahme to have to come to CA just to get my rifles to fly to Africa.

I hold Irish, English and US citizenship, with a passport from each government, so travelling isn't too awkward; but bringing the guns to Ireland or Germany may well be difficult.

Thanks again.