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South Africa: Groenewald Gang Returns to Court on Mon. April 11th for Rhino poaching
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South Africa: ‘Groenewald Gang’ Returns to Court on Monday, April 11th for Rhino poaching, Dealing in Rhino Horns


At least eleven people suspected of involvement with a rhino horn syndicate are expected in court next week.

South Africa’s high-profile court case of eleven alleged rhino horn syndicate members, including game farmer Dawie Groenewald, along with veterinarians Karel Toet and Manie du Plessis, is scheduled to begin on April 11th.

Among the litany of charges are assault, fraud, corruption, malicious damage to property, illegal possession of firearms and ammunition, and contravention of the National Environmental Biodiversity Act.

Suspects Groenewald, Toet, du Plessis, and eight others were granted bail in September 2010 by the Musina court’s magistrate Errol Luiters.

Adding insult to injury, the release date coincided with World Rhino Day, an event to raise awareness about South Africa’s rhino killing epidemic.

Groenewald’s bail was R1 million (USD $144, 471).

The list of suspected syndicate members is comprised of people from inside South Africa’s wildlife conservation community, which sadly, included veterinarians:

* Dawie Gorenewald – Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris
* Sariette Groenewald – Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris
* Tielman Erasmus – professional hunter w/ Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris
* Dr. Karel Toet – Nylstroom animal clinic and Limpopo Wildlife
* Marisa Toet – Nylstroom animal clinic and Limpopo Wildlife
* Dr. Manie du Plessis – Nylstroom animal clinic
* Marthinus Pronk
* Dewald Gouws
* Leon van der Merwe
* Paul Matomela
* Nordus Rossouw

Groenewald, proprietor of Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris, is said to be the gang’s “ringleader” – and September’s arrest was not his first brush with the law.

International troubles

South Africa’s News24 noted last year that Groenewald is a former police official who was suspended four years ago from the Professional Hunters Association, and has apparently been banned since 2004 from hunting in Zimbabwe.

It was also reported that Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris was working with Mugabe henchmen.

During the height of political instability in Zimbabwe, the organisation apparently organised hunting safaris on farms and land invaded by Zanu-PF’s “war veterans”.

In addition, Groenewald was arrested in the US in early 2010 for his involvement with the illegal hunting of a leopard.

His punishment amounted to slap on the wrist: A USD $30,000 (R228,000) fine, USD $7,500 (R57,000) in damages to the American hunter, eight days in an American jail, and two months of house arrest.

Mass grave of rhinos

In October 2010, investigators unearthed 20 rhino carcasses on Groenewald’s “Pragtig” property in Musina.

It is suspected that Groenewald – dubbed “the butcher of Pragtig” – purchased the rhinos at auction in order to sell their horns, then simply slaughtered them, to avoid reducing his profit margin with the upkeep expenses of live rhinos.

Farm workers who were questioned about Groenewald’s Musina property referred to it as an “animal butchery”, prompting investigators to search for the graves of rhinos slaughtered for their horns.

Suspect purchased three dozen rhinos

Veterinarian Karel Toet, who was also arrested, was allegedly involved with obtaining the rhinos on Groenewald’s behalf from Kruger National Park auctions.

A Sanparks spokesperson confirmed that Groenewald had bought between 20 and 30 rhino from the Kruger park.

Dr Karel Toet, a vet who was also arrested, acted as a go-between and also bought rhino for Groenewald at the game reserve.

The spokesperson said they stopped selling game to Groenewald when they were informed he was earlier this year found guilty in an American court of exporting an illegally hunted leopard.

At the time of Groenewald’s arrest, there were 32 live rhinos on his property, although he allegedly stated that he had as many as 80 rhinos on his “Pragtig” farm.

It was later revealed that Groenewald purchased 36 rhinos from Kruger National Park during June and July of 2009.

Not an isolated incident

The Groenewald case is not an isolated incident.

Unfortunately, a number of arrests have been made within the South African wildlife conservation community, and most of the suspects have paid relatively small fines and avoided jail time.

* December 2010: An article in Bloomberg noted that South African hunter Peter Thormahlen has had at least two tangles with the law regarding involvement with the illegal rhino horn trade. In the first case, he was said to have paid a “token” fine, and his second case was dismissed.
* October 2010: The criminal trial of safari operators George Fletcher and Gert Saaiman, along with professional hunter Frans van Deventer raised hopes that meaningful legal action would be taken against syndicate crimes. However, the case was thrown out by the North Gauteng High Court (the State’s star witness was apparently intimidated into not testifying) .
* October 2010: Two KZN Wildlife staff members were arrested at Hlabisa and iMfolozi game reserves, and three KZN wildlife officials were suspended; their disciplinary hearing has been postponed several times.
* February 2011: After killing two rhinos on a legal hunt on a farm in Musina, a pair of Vietnamese nationals were arrested at the Wonderboom Airport in Pretoria when they were found to be in illegal possession of four rhino horns. They had arrived at the airport in a private helicopter belonging to the game farmer. At least one of the smugglers was released on bail.
* January 2011: Wildlife veterinarian Dr. Andre Charles Uys was arrested for illegally removing the horns from 15 rhinos in the Maremani Game Reserve, located in Limpopo Province. Uys was released on R10,000 (US $1,416) bail by the Musina Magistrate’s Court and is scheduled to appear again on March 18th.
* January 2011: Mossel Bay hunter Christaan Frederik van Wyk was ordered to pay a fine of R30,000 (US $4,246) for illegally shooting a white rhino. The conviction stemmed from a hunting expedition with a Vietnamese client (Nguyen Tien Hoang) in Leshoka Thabang Game Lodge, on April 27th, 2006.

In the case of the Groenewald gang, will the court step up and enforce the laws that were designed to protect South Africa’s iconic rhinos – or will another rhino horn syndicate be back in business?


Cheers,

~ Alan

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email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

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Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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well i recognize the names of 2 other well known safari operators- Gert Saaimen and Peter Thormahlen. the plot certainly thickens but at the end of the day, i fear nothing will change.


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Posts: 13510 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Anyone else want to speculate on how this one turns out??? Big Grin


Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
Life Member SCI

email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn

Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
well i recognize the names of 2 other well known safari operators- Gert Saaimen and Peter Thormahlen. the plot certainly thickens but at the end of the day, i fear nothing will change.



Where is Peter Thormahlen mentioned?


Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission.
 
Posts: 3994 | Location: Hudsonville MI USA | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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It is there. Look under " NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT".

I have heard rumors. Disappointing.
 
Posts: 12112 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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No rumors, he seems to be dodgy by all the accounts I have seen in the media. He has taken Vietnamese ‘hunters’ on rhino hunts, but allegedly does the killing for them, and has been busted for it twice.

He paid a fine one time and got the other case thrown out of court, so maybe he has learned that it is not a good idea to poach rhino. Cool

Here is an article that talks about it. If he will do this with no qualms, then I would not be terribly surprised at anything else he is involved in. thumbdown


Vietnamese rhino horn smugglers posing as trophy hunters arrested in South Africa


Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
Life Member SCI

email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn

Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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What are the odd's that all these guys will show up?
Slim to none would be my bet.
 
Posts: 273 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 08 October 2008Reply With Quote
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The news report is that the defendants appeared; that the state reequested a continuance so it has more time to prepare its prosecution; and that the judge set the cases for trial in September, 2011.
 
Posts: 150 | Location: Blanco Co., TX | Registered: 16 September 2005Reply With Quote
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Got this report from someone in SA.

Apparently there's a delay & the magistrate told Groenewald to be back in court next Monday, 18th. Seems the prosecutor complained the accused has been hampering investigations, so magistrate ordered him not to interfere with witnesses or evidence, directly or indirectly. Court adjoined earlier. Awaiting more accurate info.


Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
Life Member SCI

email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn

Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
No rumors, he seems to be dodgy by all the accounts I have seen in the media. He has taken Vietnamese ‘hunters’ on rhino hunts, but allegedly does the killing for them, and has been busted for it twice.

He paid a fine one time and got the other case thrown out of court, so maybe he has learned that it is not a good idea to poach rhino. Cool

Here is an article that talks about it. If he will do this with no qualms, then I would not be terribly surprised at anything else he is involved in. thumbdown


Vietnamese rhino horn smugglers posing as trophy hunters arrested in South Africa


Alan, please confirm that you are referring to mr. Peter Thormalen of Thormalen and Cochrain Safaris.

Alan, Please read the quote above and reply to the same. You say : "he is dodgey by all accounts".

I was just trying to make sure I understood you correctly, you were refering here to Mr. Peter Thormalen of Thormalen and Cochrain Safaris.

For the interest of everyone on this forum, and the good standing and reputation you have here, please just clarify this for us.

You made a personal statement, and a quote from a newspaper is no answer.

I have not done any business with mr. thormalen, but might do so later this year with a hunt he contacted me about. I just want to make sure it is the right guy before I do anything with him. If it is the same guy, then I will not book this hunt.


Charl van Rooyen
Owner
Infinito Travel Group
www.infinito-safaris.com
charl@infinito-safaris.com
Cell: +27 78 444 7661
Tel: +27 13 262 4077
Fax:+27 13 262 3845
Hereford Street 28A
Groblersdal
0470
Limpopo
R.S.A.

"For the Infinite adventure"

Plains Game
Dangerous Game
Bucket List Specialists
Wing-Shooting
In House Taxidermy Studio
In House Dip and Pack Facility
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Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris
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"I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?"



South Africa
Tanzania
Uganda
 
Posts: 2018 | Location: South Africa,Tanzania & Uganda | Registered: 15 August 2006Reply With Quote
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You will find if you can get access to the records that several well known PHs have taken Vietnamese "hunters" into the field. It usually involves a briefcase full of cash. The "hunter" may or may not take a shot. The one I know about took and totally buggered the shot. Then refused to go after the wounded rhino. That was the ph's jobs. It was very obvious all this guy wanted was the horn to sell once home. Get someone to check the records against the hunters names and origins for all the rhinos hunted over the last 10 years. You will be very suprised at what you will find and the names that will pop up.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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This is all very interesting.

Several years ago, we went with Peter Thormahlen. A Vietnamese kept calling about rhino hunt. This hunt took place while we were there . The story we heard was that the Vietnamese shot and wounded the rhino . He refused to track it as he was scared . A ph had to follow up and finish it off.

It now makes me wonder.
 
Posts: 12112 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Charl,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I misquoted the article due to the proximity of the names. It was actually Christaan Frederik van Wyk who shot the client's rhino NOT Thormahlen. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Here is an excerpt from the actual text of the article where they talk about the Vietnamese clients, and the cases against van Wyk and Thormahlen:


Vietnamese ‘rhino hunters’

Earlier this month, Mossel Bay hunter Christaan Frederik van Wyk was ordered to pay a fine of R30,000 (US $4,246) for illegally shooting a white rhino. The conviction stemmed from a hunting expedition with a Vietnamese client (Nguyen Tien Hoang) in Leshoka Thabang Game Lodge, on April 27th, 2006.

A December 2010 article in Bloomberg noted that South African hunter Peter Thormahlen had at least two earlier brushes with the law regarding Vietnamese hunting clients.

Even Peter Thormahlen has been prosecuted for leading hunts feeding the horn trade. In 2006 at the Loskop Dam Nature Game Reserve, he paid a token fine after his Vietnamese hunter casually told an official that he did not know how to shoot.

The second time, in Limpopo province in 2008, Thormahlen was indignant and fought the citation in court with the help of lawyer Tom Dreyer.

Thormahlen’s second case, however, was dismissed.

In July 2010, a Vietnamese court sentenced Tran Van Lap of Hanoi to three years in jail for attempting to transport five rhino horns from South Africa to Vietnam.

It is noteworthy that four of the horns were obtained by Lap via a legal rhino hunt – however, authorities suspected that the documentation had been falsified.


Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
Life Member SCI

email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn

Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
Charl,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I misquoted the article due to the proximity of the names. It was actually Christaan Frederik van Wyk who shot the client's rhino NOT Thormahlen. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Here is an excerpt from the actual text of the article where they talk about the Vietnamese clients, and the cases against van Wyk and Thormahlen:


Vietnamese ‘rhino hunters’

Earlier this month, Mossel Bay hunter Christaan Frederik van Wyk was ordered to pay a fine of R30,000 (US $4,246) for illegally shooting a white rhino. The conviction stemmed from a hunting expedition with a Vietnamese client (Nguyen Tien Hoang) in Leshoka Thabang Game Lodge, on April 27th, 2006.

A December 2010 article in Bloomberg noted that South African hunter Peter Thormahlen had at least two earlier brushes with the law regarding Vietnamese hunting clients.

Even Peter Thormahlen has been prosecuted for leading hunts feeding the horn trade. In 2006 at the Loskop Dam Nature Game Reserve, he paid a token fine after his Vietnamese hunter casually told an official that he did not know how to shoot.

The second time, in Limpopo province in 2008, Thormahlen was indignant and fought the citation in court with the help of lawyer Tom Dreyer.

Thormahlen’s second case, however, was dismissed.

In July 2010, a Vietnamese court sentenced Tran Van Lap of Hanoi to three years in jail for attempting to transport five rhino horns from South Africa to Vietnam.

It is noteworthy that four of the horns were obtained by Lap via a legal rhino hunt – however, authorities suspected that the documentation had been falsified.




quote:
Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
No rumors, he seems to be dodgy by all the accounts I have seen in the media. He has taken Vietnamese ‘hunters’ on rhino hunts, but allegedly does the killing for them, and has been busted for it twice.

He paid a fine one time and got the other case thrown out of court, so maybe he has learned that it is not a good idea to poach rhino. Cool

Here is an article that talks about it. If he will do this with no qualms, then I would not be terribly surprised at anything else he is involved in. thumbdown


Vietnamese rhino horn smugglers posing as trophy hunters arrested in South Africa


Alan, please confirm that you are referring to mr. Peter Thormalen of Thormalen and Cochrain Safaris.

Alan, Please read the quote above and reply to the same. You say : "he is dodgey by all accounts".

I was just trying to make sure I understood you correctly, you were refering here to Mr. Peter Thormalen of Thormalen and Cochrain Safaris.

For the interest of everyone on this forum, and the good standing and reputation you have here, please just clarify this for us.

You made a personal statement, and a quote from a newspaper is no answer.

I have not done any business with mr. thormalen, but might do so later this year with a hunt he contacted me about. I just want to make sure it is the right guy before I do anything with him. If it is the same guy, then I will not book this hunt.


Charl van Rooyen
Owner
Infinito Travel Group
www.infinito-safaris.com
charl@infinito-safaris.com
Cell: +27 78 444 7661
Tel: +27 13 262 4077
Fax:+27 13 262 3845
Hereford Street 28A
Groblersdal
0470
Limpopo
R.S.A.

"For the Infinite adventure"

Plains Game
Dangerous Game
Bucket List Specialists
Wing-Shooting
In House Taxidermy Studio
In House Dip and Pack Facility
In House Shipping Service
Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris
Flight bookings

"I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?"



South Africa
Tanzania
Uganda
 
Posts: 2018 | Location: South Africa,Tanzania & Uganda | Registered: 15 August 2006Reply With Quote
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Charl,

Sorry, but I did not understand exactly what you were referring to. When I said he was dodgy and that I would not be surprised at anything else he was involved in, I was under the impression that he shot the rhinos for his clients, but it was actually van Wyk who was charged with that.

However, it is not clear from the newspaper report if Thormahlen shot a rhino for his client or not, as it only says his Vietnamese client told an official he did not know how to shoot. There are no details about what the charges were against Thormahlen, but if there was a rhino killed on that hunt, then the question is... who killed it?

Maybe the Vietnamese made the statement prior to the hunt, and there was no rhino killed.. therefore no charges leveled for that.

Another thing for you to consider is that these incidents occurred in 2006 and 2008, well before the rhino poaching explosion of 2010. According to this report, Thormahlen paid a 'token' fine on the first charge and got the second one dismissed, and has not had any problems since then. That has been almost three years ago.

I would think that with all the hassle of the court cases, as well as the bad PR from these press accounts, it would tend to make any reasonable person not want to do anything remotely like that again.

As far as going on a hunt with him, I think you should do it. With your knowledge of the local laws and you involvement in PHASA, you would be in a unique position to ascertain if there was anything dodgy going on or not. Also, you should broach the subject with him to get his side of the story. It is not clear what the details of his legal problems were, and it would be interesting to contrast and compare his version of the events in question with what actually came out in court.

Maybe a better strategy would be to get the court reports and then talk to him before you book a hunt with him. In 2006 and 2008, all this rhino business was not at the fever pitch that is is today. He could have just done something stupid or broken a small technicality which started all his problems. Now, any news reports of infractions of the laws concerning rhinos has brought it all back into the media.

No one is beyond redemption, and if these incidents taught Thormahlen about the intricacies of laws pertaining to rhino hunting, then he might be a totally different person than he was several years ago. In fact, he may well be the best PH to ask about what is or is not legal.

Do you have any way of finding out exactly what the former charges were, and could you report them back to us?


Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
Life Member SCI

email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn

Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Alan, you are no sport.

I.... am ..... asking.... you...... if.... the.....person.....you....accussed......of....being....dodgey......is...in....fact....mr. Thormalen....? Yes or no...?

Do not jump into a big statement of misunderstanding newspaper articles.....

Are you now saying he is NOT a dodgey operator?


Charl van Rooyen
Owner
Infinito Travel Group
www.infinito-safaris.com
charl@infinito-safaris.com
Cell: +27 78 444 7661
Tel: +27 13 262 4077
Fax:+27 13 262 3845
Hereford Street 28A
Groblersdal
0470
Limpopo
R.S.A.

"For the Infinite adventure"

Plains Game
Dangerous Game
Bucket List Specialists
Wing-Shooting
In House Taxidermy Studio
In House Dip and Pack Facility
In House Shipping Service
Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris
Flight bookings

"I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?"



South Africa
Tanzania
Uganda
 
Posts: 2018 | Location: South Africa,Tanzania & Uganda | Registered: 15 August 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by infinito:
Alan, you are no sport.

I.... am ..... asking.... you...... if.... the.....person.....you....accussed......of....being....dodgey......is...in....fact....mr. Thormalen....? Yes or no...?

Do not jump into a big statement of misunderstanding newspaper articles.....

Are you now saying he is NOT a dodgey operator?



It sounds like he is saying he WAS a dodgy operator in that he has had at least two brushes with the law.

Also, that it has been three to five years ago and that he may have found salvation and is now redeemed.

Also, now that he has had first hand experience with the SAP and courts, he may have the most up to date and intimate knowledge of the finer points of the law as it pertains to Rhino hunting.

At least, that what is sounds like he is saying.


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Cogito ergo venor- KPete

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― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations”
 
Posts: 989 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 12 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by infinito:
Alan, you are no sport.

I.... am ..... asking.... you...... if.... the.....person.....you....accussed......of....being....dodgey......is...in....fact....mr. Thormalen....? Yes or no...?

Do not jump into a big statement of misunderstanding newspaper articles.....

Are you now saying he is NOT a dodgey operator?


Objection your Honor, leading the witness...!
LOL
Charl, you are the lawyer between the 2 of us, but that is just wrong>>>! Big Grin


Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net
karl@huntingsafaris.net
P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia
Cell: +264 81 1285 416
Fax: +264 61 254 328
Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264
 
Posts: 1336 | Location: Namibia, Caprivi | Registered: 11 September 2005Reply With Quote
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Charl,

Yes, I think three years of staying out of trouble puts Thormahlen on the 'not dodgy' list.


Cheers,

~ Alan

Life Member NRA
Life Member SCI

email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn

Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
well i recognize the names of 2 other well known safari operators- Gert Saaimen and Peter Thormahlen. the plot certainly thickens but at the end of the day, i fear nothing will change.



Where is Peter Thormahlen mentioned?

CHECK THE TIME LINE NEAR THE BOTTOM- DECEMBER. 2010


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Posts: 13510 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by infinito:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
Charl,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I misquoted the article due to the proximity of the names. It was actually Christaan Frederik van Wyk who shot the client's rhino NOT Thormahlen. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Here is an excerpt from the actual text of the article where they talk about the Vietnamese clients, and the cases against van Wyk and Thormahlen:


Vietnamese ‘rhino hunters’

Earlier this month, Mossel Bay hunter Christaan Frederik van Wyk was ordered to pay a fine of R30,000 (US $4,246) for illegally shooting a white rhino. The conviction stemmed from a hunting expedition with a Vietnamese client (Nguyen Tien Hoang) in Leshoka Thabang Game Lodge, on April 27th, 2006.

A December 2010 article in Bloomberg noted that South African hunter Peter Thormahlen had at least two earlier brushes with the law regarding Vietnamese hunting clients.

Even Peter Thormahlen has been prosecuted for leading hunts feeding the horn trade. In 2006 at the Loskop Dam Nature Game Reserve, he paid a token fine after his Vietnamese hunter casually told an official that he did not know how to shoot.

The second time, in Limpopo province in 2008, Thormahlen was indignant and fought the citation in court with the help of lawyer Tom Dreyer.

Thormahlen’s second case, however, was dismissed.

In July 2010, a Vietnamese court sentenced Tran Van Lap of Hanoi to three years in jail for attempting to transport five rhino horns from South Africa to Vietnam.

It is noteworthy that four of the horns were obtained by Lap via a legal rhino hunt – however, authorities suspected that the documentation had been falsified.




quote:
Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
No rumors, he seems to be dodgy by all the accounts I have seen in the media. He has taken Vietnamese ‘hunters’ on rhino hunts, but allegedly does the killing for them, and has been busted for it twice.

He paid a fine one time and got the other case thrown out of court, so maybe he has learned that it is not a good idea to poach rhino. Cool

Here is an article that talks about it. If he will do this with no qualms, then I would not be terribly surprised at anything else he is involved in. thumbdown


Vietnamese rhino horn smugglers posing as trophy hunters arrested in South Africa


Alan, please confirm that you are referring to mr. Peter Thormalen of Thormalen and Cochrain Safaris.

Alan, Please read the quote above and reply to the same. You say : "he is dodgey by all accounts".

I was just trying to make sure I understood you correctly, you were refering here to Mr. Peter Thormalen of Thormalen and Cochrain Safaris.

For the interest of everyone on this forum, and the good standing and reputation you have here, please just clarify this for us.

You made a personal statement, and a quote from a newspaper is no answer.

I have not done any business with mr. thormalen, but might do so later this year with a hunt he contacted me about. I just want to make sure it is the right guy before I do anything with him. If it is the same guy, then I will not book this hunt.

if the hunt he contacted you about was a lion hunt- caveat emptor.


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Posts: 13510 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Sounds an awfull lot like the anual summer round them up and put the brand on them revival meetings of my youth. Everyone spent 30 minutes or more telling in great deatail how bad their lives had been. Then a 2 second "Then I found Jesus and now everything is wonderfull!" Seems to me that now, just like then, the emphasis was always put in the wrong place. To continue with the analogy, it is time for eveyone to do a little soul searching. We all need to decide as to what is and isnt acceptable to us. Once there, how much are we going to overlook before finally taking a hard stand?


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Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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