Planning for South Africa trip and I ve taken buffalo with both for buffalo using TSX, solids and also Woodleigh 600gr with the .505. Also have NF CP for the .505. The .505 is accurate to 300yds and is scoped. The .577 is open site but I may get a red dot added. I love both. So what would you take for buffalo? What would you take for elephants (I m not hunting them)? Interested in opinions, both experienced and dreamers! Scenariors will of course differ. Weight is not an issue.

Take both.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Take both.

Second this.
Cal

Why would you want/need a 505 accurate to 300 yards, much less scoped? Take the scopes off both( scopes on either are like tits on a boar hog) and press on with open sights on either. If your SA PH can't get you in open sight range for those 2 rifles, you need to look for another PH. Those 2 are simply not sniper rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Why would you want/need a 505 accurate to 300 yards, much less scoped? Take the scopes off both( scopes on either are like tits on a boar hog) and press on with open sights on either. If your SA PH can't get you in open sight range for those 2 rifles, you need to look for another PH. Those 2 are simply not sniper rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by LR3:
Planning for South Africa trip and I ve taken buffalo with both for buffalo using TSX, solids and also Woodleigh 600gr with the .505. Also have NF CP for the .505. The .505 is accurate to 300yds and is scoped. The .577 is open site but I may get a red dot added. I love both. So what would you take for buffalo? What would you take for elephants (I m not hunting them)? Interested in opinions, both experienced and dreamers! Scenariors will of course differ. Weight is not an issue.

The 505 Gibbs !

I shot a lot of buffalos and 4 elefants. IMHO a scoped rifle is more suitable for africa hunting , especially for a sucessfull hunting. I have also 2 old DR , a 577NE and a 600NE ,a nice remember of the old days but in practice not a rifle for all hunting condition today.

I have a similar dilemma, I told the fellow we hunted with in 2015 that we were thinking of coming back to hunt. I told him I was thinking of bringing my 416 Rigby as it is scoped and I shoot it well. He stated the they had lots more buffalo that needed to go to heaven and to "bring the 577, we know it works."

While I love my open sighted rifles, after hunting big game for six decades I shoot scoped rifles much better, the reason, antique eyes. If you live long enough you too will have trouble seeing to shoot open sights as well as you did when you were young. And bullet placement is paramount when shooting dangerous game.

In my experience it was very rare to shoot a buffalo at 30 to 40 paces as in the old days. Shooting on 100 yards with open sight and bad light is not the best. Same problem with a elephant and a good shot placement in the brain or in the heart , and when something goes wrong and you have to shoot at long range on a wounded game , a scoped rifle is in all cases a advantage.

quote:

If you live long enough you too will have trouble seeing to shoot open sights as well as you did when you were young. And bullet placement is paramount when shooting dangerous game.

Well spoken !

As suggested bring both and let the shot that is presented dictate which rifle is most appropriate. I always recommend bringing a scoped rifle too for anyone that wants to bring their open sighted double.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

If you live long enough you too will have trouble seeing to shoot open sights as well as you did when you were young. And bullet placement is paramount when shooting dangerous game.

Well spoken !

I resemble that remark.

I prefer a double for elephant and a bolt for buff. However, I have taken both species with both guns.

I use a red dot sight. I shot a buff with a 500 NE at something over 150 with it last year. The problem arises when the shot is not clear.

quote:

The problem arises when the shot is not clear.

Here lies the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by grandveneur:

quote:

The problem arises when the shot is not clear.

Here lies the problem.

That is why I try to bring a good pair of compact binoculars.

George,

I agree you will most likely get a better definition of the target through the binos (compact) but how will this help if the shot is not clear to the naked eye, especially when using irons?

If on the other hand a scoped rifle comes into the equation it would then invoke the waiting game and the opportunity for a window to open and let fly.

A Hakko Panorama on my DR has been my preferred choice for nigh on 20 years and I dare say I was probably among the first to deploy one on a DR (in African DG hunting) much to the horror and grief of many of my colleagues who in later years thought it wasn't a bad idea after all.

I just love hunting with open sights BUT I do understand I may miss shot opportunities that would otherwise be possible with a scope.
"The pleasure is in the struggle"

The idea of taking two rifles that are up to the game being hunted, one being scoped and open sights while the other larger rifle being open sights or something like the Docter Optic. This is only that if one rifle has something go south the other can finish the hunt.

In this case the hunt is for buffalo and elephant and as far as the chamberings are concerned neither is needed for ether of those animals. Any rifle that will take buffalo cleanly with handle elephant as well. A 450NE , or 470NE will suffice for both. But if one wants a scoped rifle I would consider my light rifle to be a bolt with a quick detach scope and good irons as well, chambered for anything from a 375H&H up to 458 LOTT.

My choice has always been a double rifle of 450 or larger up to 500NE and an FN Mauser bolt rifle chambered for 375H&H with good “return to zero” bases with a 1 to 5 power scope with post and crosshair with a lighted apex dot for the precision shot needed to get through a hole in the jess to get to a shot on target and to back my big bore if it goes bad for any reason. This is just me but I see absolutely no need for any chambering larger than a 500NE. The real choice here is choosing the proper bullet design. A quality expanding bullet for the buffalo and a quality solid for the elephant regardless of chambering.

These choices are simply my take on the subject, and are not a mandate that anyone else agree as opinions vary!

.....................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I just love hunting with open sights BUT I do understand I may miss shot opportunities that would otherwise be possible with a scope.
"The pleasure is in the struggle"

That's what i wanted to say , and the reason why i prefer a scoped rifle.

Sounds like the "rich man's curse".

Why anyone would want to shoot a buffalo at 100 plus yds makes no sense to me. Getting up close is where the fun is IMO.

Take them both and flip a coin every morning to decide which rifle you will carry. Less stress that way.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
Sounds like the "rich man's curse".

Why anyone would want to shoot a buffalo at 100 plus yds makes no sense to me. Getting up close is where the fun is IMO.

Take them both and flip a coin every morning to decide which rifle you will carry. Less stress that way.

BH63

Unless you can afford to go back each year after you were unable to get the buff standing right where you wanted, you may want to take the opportunity that presents itself.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffHunter63:
Sounds like the "rich man's curse".

Why anyone would want to shoot a buffalo at 100 plus yds makes no sense to me. Getting up close is where the fun is IMO.

Take them both and flip a coin every morning to decide which rifle you will carry. Less stress that way.

BH63

Of course getting up close is the best in my opinion and the most fun. However there is no reason a shot from a double rifle with iron sights should not be taken at 100 to two hundred yards as long as there is no bush in the flight path of the bullet that may deflect the bullet and cause a wounded buffalo that would require a follow-up in to the weeds.

The fact is any double rifle can be fitted with a good scope in good quick detach bases for a shot in bush where one can see the little twigs that are invisible to the naked eye.

Using the equipment needed to make clean kills is simply the smart way to hunt live targets, especially dangerous targets.

.........................................................................

The question is a cornucopia of opinnions, most of which work very well indeed..

A 375 or 416 with a scope is probably used in Africa more than anything else for buff and elephant, and they work just fine, therefore either of your choices are more than workable if one can shoot them. You should take the one that YOU like best or shoot best, not what someone else thinks is best for you..

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The idea of taking two rifles that are up to the game being hunted, one being scoped and open sights while the other larger rifle being open sights or something like the Docter Optic. This is only that if one rifle has something go south the other can finish the hunt.

In this case the hunt is for buffalo and elephant and as far as the chamberings are concerned neither is needed for ether of those animals. Any rifle that will take buffalo cleanly with handle elephant as well. A 450NE , or 470NE will suffice for both. But if one wants a scoped rifle I would consider my light rifle to be a bolt with a quick detach scope and good irons as well, chambered for anything from a 375H&H up to 458 LOTT.

My choice has always been a double rifle of 450 or larger up to 500NE and an FN Mauser bolt rifle chambered for 375H&H with good “return to zero” bases with a 1 to 5 power scope with post and crosshair with a lighted apex dot for the precision shot needed to get through a hole in the jess to get to a shot on target and to back my big bore if it goes bad for any reason. This is just me but I see absolutely no need for any chambering larger than a 500NE. The real choice here is choosing the proper bullet design. A quality expanding bullet for the buffalo and a quality solid for the elephant regardless of chambering.

These choices are simply my take on the subject, and are not a mandate that anyone else agree as opinions vary!

.....................................................................

MacD37 You are extremely knowledgable and many would do well to heed your excellent advice.

As always, Cal, Fairgame, Larry, Mac, Mark and others have good points and insights. I had said "you" bring because that s of interest so I appreciate the comments. In thinking about it, the suggestion to bring both is a great one - one can never have too much gun, right? especially with DG. The 505 will be good for the offer of crocodile and maybe hippo at a longer distance. I m hoping to keep a crocodile head intact so a shoulder shot with a big bore is the croc ticket to the dark side. I ve added a red dot with 6x mag to my 45-70 and it seems to be good but time will tell. However for the .577 VC I ll only use a red dot without magnifier for obvious reasons! As Larry points out, when the eyes get weaker you better make sure you are still accurate, the most important point for effective killing. One benefit of the scope I have on the 505 is that even when quite dark it gathers more light than the naked eye. Something for those going after leopard to think about (Leupold 4-14 x 56). But in dense vegetation and cover, I would not recommend it. It gets back to a previous post re 25-06 for kudu about accuracy, caliber, bullet, environment, presence of DG, and atmospherics. See Fairgame and Macs comments also.

posted 18 June 2016 18:44 Hide Post
These discussions are always interesting because there are so many good opinions to consider.

The question for you RsmLott458 is where will you be hunting? Namibia, Northern Cape, Zambezi Jess, Zim lowveld, northern vs southern Greater Kruger Park, Bela Bela are all different and may influence your choice apart from the fact you love your 25-06.

For my 2c worth there 6 variables to consider:

Immediate Kill ~ abcAcc x abcCal x abcBull x abcTerr x abcDG x abcAtm

Where Accuracy, Caiber, Bullet, Terrain, presence of Dangerous Game, and Atmospherics are the variables. While I shoot competively to 2400 yds we can assume this for atmospherics is 0 unless it's desert of Namibia. If there is DG then this would be a variable - I ve felt naked in dense jess with a black rhino in spitting distance holding a Gibbs .505 but open veld, not a problem.

For each variable there are abc confounding factors that modify that variable. Let's take accuracy. Will you be shooting off sticks, bean bag, free hand, are you better with it than your 7mm etc

Bullets - the factors are speed, expansion, penetration, sectional density, breaking up etc

And so one can go on. How one weighs each variable and factor will influence your odds of an immediate kill without the risk of loss or spending a day tracking. I once spent a whole day trying to find a sable my friend shot in the quartering shoulder with 30-06 but poor bullet choice that never penetrated. It was pure chance we saw it over a mike away.

Notice the list of variables does not include pleasure except for weight of rifle for terrain. I have some rifles I just love using that sway my choices. Go for it but remember the factors in the odds. Accuracy trumps most.

Having said that, based on deer, mule deer, caribou, some 35 different plains, and being in DG terrain, every PG shot with TSX at 3400 fps with 30-378 has not taken more than a few steps, Gibbs .505 with TSX have sometimes taken a few more, but my favorites are two high velocity .375s (3100fps and 3300fps). Nevertheless, I ve never taken them for African plains or DG because of terrain, and weight / maneuverability.

What you choose is very is personal once you weigh the variables. In 4 weeks, I m taking my .577 for buffalo, quick shots for PG and my son will borrow a 30-06 for PG.

Have a great time! That s most important for the memories
 
Posts: 242 | Registered: 16 April 2012
fairgame
one of us

posted 19 June 2016 00:05 Hide Post
quote:
my son will borrow a 30-06 for PG


One of the finest calibers around. Always will be.

ROYAL KAFUE LTD
Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com or fairgame@iconnect.zm
Tel. (00260) 975315144
 
Posts: 6167 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009
MacD37
one of us

posted 19 June 2016 00:32 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
my son will borrow a 30-06 for PG


One of the finest calibers around. Always will be.


Your statement reminds me of my father! He always said that a 30-06 would kill anything that walks crawls, or flies with one shot across the county or up close!

You should have been there to hear the words when he was told the 30-06 was not allowed for shooting cape buffalo because it was too small.
I still have his FN Mauser 30-06, that he shot just about everything he ever hunted, most times a long way off with one shot!
...................................................................... too small?
............................
On the subject of 25-06 bring enough for Kudu, I see no reason, with a proper bullet, and proper placement, that it would be lacking for that purpose!
............................

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

Ammunition weight is always an issue, as is your comfort with the rifles. But, assuming you can overcome those, I agree with Andrew. Take both, kabiza. I've never had too much rifle.