I have nearly talked myself into booking a tuskless elephant hunt with Buzz Charleton.

JudgeG's and other's post on PAC elephants have me thinking a bit. I wonder if the experienced members of this board could give me some advice on the choosing between the two.

Let me first say that I am no way denigrating either hunt, just trying to understand each a little better. I would be tickled pink with either. Cost is a major issue, so these are the only two types really possible. Tuskless seems less, but some good deals pop up for PAC hunts from time to time, especially if you can leave at short notice.

Tuskless :

The pro's here seem to be that you will do a lot of tracking in true wilderness of the Zambezi valley. You will likely be up close and personal with a large number of elephants. From all accounts, these ladies are not that friendly and, although I have no desire to test my manliness by stopping charges, it will likely be exciting.

The con's are that it is a tuskless. From all the photos and video, it does seem that tuskless cows are quite a bit smaller animal than bulls. Am I correct here?


PAC Bull :

The pro's are that you can kill a bull. Although it will not be a huge tusker, it will likely be a fully mature representative bull elephant. Again, from photos and videos, it seem they are twice the size of a tuskless cow. Replica tusks could be made it desired.

The con's, to my limited knowledge, it that these hunts take place in populated areas (hence the PA of the PAC). Although it would be very interesting to see rural life in Africa, I would tend to lean towards being in a wild, unpopulated place. Also, it seems these hunts tend to take place early in the season when the crops are being raided. Thus, the weather is likely not as nice and you could expect to hunt in the rain. Not a huge deal to a Louisiana boy like me.

I would love to hear if I am right in my thinking and any other thoughts you might have.

You are spot on.

One other difference: tuskless cows cost less than PAC bulls. And you can often pick up some plains game on a tuskless hunt, but on a PAC bull hunt you may need to switch to a different concession for the PG.

Having only hunted a tuskless cow, I would say that the big bonus with tuskless is the possibility of lots of tracking, and numerous up close stalks to check out herds. This will thus in many cases give you more up close experiances with elephants every single day from one 8-10 day hunt, than you will be able to get from a very great number of PAC hunts. I finally lost count of how many elephant I had been within 15-20 meters of after several days of tracking before I decided to finally shoot one.

Which brings me to a small piece of advice I got from a couple of friends here, and some PHs I know, before I went to Zim; Don't shoot your first tuskless elephant until you've hunted them for at least 2-3 days. This was sound advice IMO, and I am glad I followed it. Had I shot my tuskless cow the first day or two (which wasn't a problem had I so chosen, since we saw so many shootable tuskless in the herds we snuck in amongst), I would have missed out on a lot of interesting elephant interaction. In fact, when I finally did shoot my elepant, I was quite saddened over the thought that the tracking and stalking was over. And dearly wished I had another on quota, so I could keep sneaking in amongst the herds!

Have fun, whichever you decide to do!

As Dan posted, you have it covered quite well. One thing I would make sure of when hunting a PAC bull is that it will happen during daylight hours. Some are hunted at night. I would much rather track tuskless cows across long stretches of the Zambezi Valley in the searing heat than potshoot a bull in a mealy field. Not that both can't be exciting, but, as Erik points out above, tracking elephant is what hunting elephant is all about.

I leave for a PAC Bull hunt with Buzz on 4/21, I'll let you know. I hunted last year in the Zambezi for trophy bull and couldn't wait to hunt with him again.

I just can't bring myself around to shooting female anythings. i know there are reasons, but i have mine too.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
I just can't bring myself around to shooting female anythings. i know there are reasons, but i have mine too.

A vital part of keeping animal populations stable and balanced is also taking out a certain number of females, and even young. And keeping the population stable and balanced means hunting will be possible in the future too.

EDIT: The above concerns animals in general, not necessarily elephant.

(Besides the fact that tuskless cows are twice as agressive and nasty as bulls, and thus can make things pretty exiting.)

I for one think killing female ele is a bad idea. As I understand it breeding herds are always led by a female and if she is killed it leads to serious problems for the family group. For example in finding good feeding areas as conditions change. The lead cow finds new feeding areas largely from memory. In addition, cows cooperate in rasing young. Shooting any cow means a change in the social organization of that group.

If a population of ele need to be culled let the professionals do it. That means killing entire family groups. Effective management but it has nothing to do with sport hunting.

What's more I just don't like the idea of killing an animal as magnificent as an elephant (or any animal for that matter) just for the hell of killing it. Trophy hunting is another thing as it is self-limiting and in the case of ele does not normally effect breeding herds.

I do not mean to condem anyone who thinks otherwise, but I think those involved in the safari business, outfitters, PHs and client hunters alike should take a long hard look at killing cow ele.

Best regards;
Brett

I am just guessing, but I think the shooting of a tuskless cow, has something to do with the fact that she is "tuskless". I do not believe anyone actively hunts cows (with tusks) for sport. I think the concept is to eliminate the tuskless gene as much as possible, as the tuskless elephants seem to be the most aggressive.

The above statement is just a guess and I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will respond with some facts.

I would agree that hunting cows with tusks is not a good idea, but I think differently when it comes to tuskless cows.

Tim

Brett,

Tuskless cow elephant are at the bottom of the social order and rarely, if ever, become the matriarch. Elephants use their tusks in feeding and in their social interaction. One of the reasons tuskless are called "the bitches of the bush" is because they attempt to make up for their feeding and social handicaps with agression. They are typically smaller than tusked cows because of their handicap as well.

You are not allowed to take a tuskless cow with a dependent calf. Many tuskless are passed on because of dependant calfs. There is minimal disruption to the social order when a tuskless without a calf is killed.

In any event, all matriarchs die at some point. If it were so disasterous for the cow herd for the matriarch to die, every herd would die off once the matriarch succumbed to age or predators. This doesn't happen.

JPK

Never say never. Occasionally you will run across herds of tuskless cows, and therefore a tuskless is the matriarch.

Possibly more significant is shooting a cow with a half grown calf, that just may grow up to take revenge some day!

quote:

I leave for a PAC Bull hunt with Buzz on 4/21, I'll let you know. I hunted last year in the Zambezi for trophy bull and couldn't wait to hunt with him again.

Good hunting Dave! Two elephant hunts in two years? I think you found a new hobby!