Anyone familiar with or uses a .416 Rem Mag? I might have the option to use one as a back up rifle next year whilst my double is being repaired in France.

What really are the ballistic differences between the Rigby and Rem Mag?

I am predicting Saeed's comment that the buffalo will not know the difference and therefore thank you kindly Saeed in advance for your comment.

Cheers

I've used a .416 RM on 2 buffalo and it worked just fine. Like any other caliber, bullet placement is key but it will definitely kill. Bullet choices will make a big difference. One of the most dramatic kills on buff that I made was with a 350 Barnes TSX. 55 yards, put the bullet right behind the front leg, the buff humped up and made 3 jumps before collapsing. It will kill

Doubt it will be any different than your 404 in back up performance.
Hood to hear you can get it back to France but RSA woukd have plenty of guys thst could service it.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Anyone familiar with or uses a .416 Rem Mag? I might have the option to use one as a back up rifle next year whilst my double is being repaired in France.

What really are the ballistic differences between the Rigby and Rem Mag?

I am predicting Saeed's comment that the buffalo will not know the difference and therefore thank you kindly Saeed in advance for your comment.

Cheers

Hahahaha!


Yes indeed!

You would have had a lot of entertainment years ago at Holland and Holland.

I used to know one of the directors, and spent quite a bit of time in that place.

One particular gentleman was absolutely adamant that a 240 H&H kills better than a 243 Winchester, despite the fact of having the exact same ballistics!

Both the Rigby and the Rem are more than adequate for anything.

The Rigby is the primogenitor of a lot of today's heavies, and dates from the days of cordite so if you are a reloader you have a big, voluminous case to play with. It is my personal favorite of the two.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Anyone familiar with or uses a .416 Rem Mag? I might have the option to use one as a back up rifle next year whilst my double is being repaired in France.

What really are the ballistic differences between the Rigby and Rem Mag?

I am predicting Saeed's comment that the buffalo will not know the difference and therefore thank you kindly Saeed in advance for your comment.

Cheers

I've used the .416 rem in Westafrica for the past two season. Killed two buffalo and a pac elephant myself with it. Having backed up on elephant and buffalo.
I stay away from Hornady ammunition after seeing them fail and use only barnes ammo. So far I am happy with it.

Hi Andrew - ballistically the two are similar but with the Rem version working at higher chamber pressure. Had one bad experience in the Rifa Safari Area of the Zambezi Valley in October when it was flippin' hot. Had a learner Zim PH armed with a Remington M700 in .416 Rem Mag take a side brain shot at a tuskeless ellie cow. The shot was placed too high and as the cow was staggering around the learner PH couldn't reload - the rifles bolt was frozen solid. After much shouting and cussing the bolt was eventually lifted and drawn back - but the stuck case remained in the chamber - the M700's pathetic little extractor had been ripped off!!! This effectively turned the rifle into a rather ineffective club!!! So armed in amongst a herd of pee'd off Zambezi bitches quickly makes one realize the importance of chamber pressure and controlled feeding '98 actions when pursuing dangerous game!
The ammo was factory stuff and so we choreographed it after it has been lying in the sun on the dashboard of a close LC left standing in the sun at those temperatures - 400 grainers were doing 2500 fps - so its no wonder the Remington's bolt locked up!
In a right rifle when not hot, they work fine.

I've killed 3 buff and 1 ellie with mine. The ellie was hit in the shoulder with a Barnes solid at about 30 yds and the bull was absolutely staggered. The 2d shot toppled
him.

For buff I use Rem cartridges with Swift A-frames. Shoulder shots stop under skin of opposite side with fragments sometime exiting.

Hit any of the DG in the right spot and this cartridge will kill them quick.

My rifles have both been Win Safari Expresses.

BH63

I have both.

The rigby is the bigger case at lower pressure...and both the rifle and the ammo cost more.

The Remington is basically the .375 case necked up to .416.

Ballistically they are the same.

While I like the Rigby better, it's due to non practical reasons.

I would use the .416 Remington with complete confidence using current ammo with a good bullet, assuming the rifle is solid in the first place.

quote:

after it has been lying in the sun on the dashboard of a close LC left standing in the sun at those temperatures - 400 grainers were doing 2500 fps - so its no wonder the Remington's bolt locked up!

If that is what happen to factory loads, just imagine the results when it comes to ammo which has been hand-loaded to max limits!

My preference between Remington and Rigby would be the former due to easier availability of ammo, Remington being the more popular of the two.

9 elephants, 4 buffalo, 1 lion, 1 grysbok poainsgame and plenty of sild boar and deer. Wwilllmdrop
Them
Dead. More penetration than the rigby over 50 meters u can shoot a fleeing buffalo at a 100 yards and will make the job. Drops very little opposed to the Rigby

I shoot a 416 Rem Mag and my wife a 416 Rigby, both rifles have more than 700 shots through them.
In field use absolutely no difference to be observed.
Neither rifle's barrel has ever been polluted with factory ammo.
My 416 has a 20,5" barrel and delivers 2290fps with 400 grainers, the Rigby delivers 2330fps with 400 grainers from a 24" barrel.
The success of the cartridge can only be derived from the projectile.
Having said that I prefer the Remington as I find it easier to reload.

100% I somehow ended up with two!

I have both the Rigby, Remington and to add even more confusion, the .416 Hoffman. As others have said here, the only real difference is the chamber pressures. Other than that all three are very effective on buffalo and elephant. I doubt the animal being shot would know which cartridge he is being shot with as the projectiles are identical...

i used my 416 Rem (Win 70) in Africa. I live in north Texas and tested all my handholds in our August +100 Temps. No issues at all. Used 400 gr Mono for a solid option and a 370 NF soft.
Did not use it on a buffalo as I did the close in stalk with a 470 double. I did take a Zebra, Kudu and Bush pig with the 416 with the NF soft and it performed perfect (rifle, cartridge, projectile).
BTW: It never got above 75F in late in early August in Zimbabwe while we were there. Great weather!
My 470 and 416 were a good combination. I had my wife tote a 30-06.

EZ

I have had rifles chambered in that caliber for over 20 years.
I have taken a hell of a lot of DG as well as PG. If I am counting correctly,
48 buffalo for example. 12’elephants,’a rhino, 3 leopard,hundreds of PG and miscellaneous hogs,
Etc. I found that it words well on grysbok!

I love it. I never had a problem of any kind that I can recall. I shoot factory ammo only.

My latest is a Rifles, Inc gun. It is perhaps my favorite gun.

Larry is just plain a tough guy.
I have used both the Rem and Rigby. Worked great. Kicked hard. My son prefers the Rigby as he thinks the fat cartridges kill better. I tried to remind him that he bullet is the same but he did not think that was the issue???
He is a doctor....

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Larry is just plain a tough guy.
I have used both the Rem and Rigby. Worked great. Kicked hard. My son prefers the Rigby as he thinks the fat cartridges kill better. I tried to remind him that he bullet is the same but he did not think that was the issue???
He is a doctor....

Placebo effect... :-)

You all are manlier than me. Had a 416 rem, shot it a few times and decided the 375 is my recoil threshold.

This conversation is akin to arguing which is better, a gin martini or a vodka martini. One is traditional, but they both achieve the same result.

My daily carry is a .416 Rigby. The only consideration between the Rigby and Remington is the case design - belt or no belt.

Both cartridges can be made to feed flawlessly. However, while I wouldn't hesitate to shoot 416 Remington factory loads, I wouldn't easily do so with the Rigby without a lot of testing. I do not like non-belted factory loads when my butt is on the line. Headspace can be a bitch when it's all wrong.

Ive used the 416 Rem. and 404 for 40 plus years, along with a few others, never felt the need for more power or range..Both the Rigby and the Rem have identical ballistics for the most part, the 400 gr. bullet at 2300 to 2400 FPS. The Rem has a std action and can be made much lighter and handier IMO..My 416 weighed 8 lbs naked and 9.5 with scope sling loaded. I really liked the 450 gr Woodleigh bullets at 2200 to 2300 FPS...Good luck, your well armed.

Many thanks Gentlemen and that gives me a lot of confidence.

As I have never used a .416 it is comforting to know that the Remington is a good cartridge and more than adequate.

Alternatively I could go back to the .404J if the ballistics are that similar?

It comes down to do you want the option to run factory ammo or not. Otherwise on paper all three are very close in performance so there is no real terminal ballistics advantage.

Andrew, modern ammunition for the 404 is loaded to near-identical levels as the 416 Rigby. Plus, I doubt you use nearly as many shots backing up (or shooting for) clients as Mark Sullivan :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
It comes down to do you want the option to run factory ammo or not. Otherwise on paper all three are very close in performance so there is no real terminal ballistics advantage.

Great and thanks for that. I had always considered the .416 as the bigger hitter.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Andrew, modern ammunition for the 404 is loaded to near-identical levels as the 416 Rigby. Plus, I doubt you use nearly as many shots backing up (or shooting for) clients s Mark Sullivan :-)

Trust you to stir the pot. Saeed will be all over this now.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
It comes down to do you want the option to run factory ammo or not. Otherwise on paper all three are very close in performance so there is no real terminal ballistics advantage.

Great and thanks for that. I had always considered the .416 as the bigger hitter.

By reputation only. 400 grains at 2300-2400 fps works no matter which cartridge it hails from. Yes you can load the 416 a little hotter, however, another 50 fps matters not when you can achieve all the penetration you would ever pray for at 2300 fps.

Living in Africa, it comes down to what is readily available regarding components and powder choices. And as you already know, your powder choices suck (SOMCHEM) and brass and dies can be a challenge and 404J bullets are pretty damn rare regardless of location. So I would choose based on what I can lay my hands on.

Taken ele and buff with the .416 - Even from 100 meters elephants die with a brain shot.

I have a 416 Rem Mag in a Winchester 70. I've taken all of the dangerous game with it, minus rhino, and tons of plains game. It shoots Remington factory ammo, solids and softs, to the same POI. It kicks a little, but I love the rifle and the round. I'd not hesitate to carry one for backup purposes.

Hard to believe I've not bloodied it since 2013.

Andrew,

The 416 hits hard and penetrates exceedingly well. I've used it in Africa and North America with perfect results. One thing to consider at least here in States I found 416 Rem ammo to be far less expensive and more available than 416 Rigby or 404.

Mark

Not to nit pick, but all my references indicated the ,416 Ren Mag was created using 8 mm Rem Mag cases. Factory ballistics for the Rem .400 grain Swift and Barnes is 2400 fps.

I have been fortunate in that both my Win Safari Expresse .416s have kept their zero after initial sightin even after multiple trips to Africa.

Every time I take it to the range my first shot at 100 yards is always in the bull.

I use Leo 1.5-5 scopes on Leo detachable bases. Everything is rock solid.

Ammo runs from $80.00 to $160.00 a box depending upon where and when you buy it.

I cam shoot it about 10 times off the bench before I get a headache.

BH63

I have taken two ele, 3 cape buff, 1 lion, 1 hippo and assorted plains game with my 416 REM. I use 400 grain swift A frames, and Barnes Solids. 71.5 grains of Varget. I have had flawless performance.
You will not be dissapointed

I was lucky to use a 416 Rem on an elephant body shot. Worked very good with a handload of Barnes Flatnose Banded Solid and R15.

Andrew,
Ask your self if you would have been fine with that self defence Jumbo if you had your 404 at the time.
That should be the simmilar answer with the 416.

I have killed 3 elephant and 2 big buffalo and a 10 ft. Brown bear with my 416 Rem. The 400 gr. North Forks are extremely accurate and deadly. For solids I've had the best performance from GS Customs. I don't need a dropped trigger and I can roll with an extra round with the Rem. vs. the Rigby.
However, it's really academic-they're both equally efficient killers

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Andrew,
Ask your self if you would have been fine with that self defence Jumbo if you had your 404 at the time.
That should be the simmilar answer with the 416.

I tried to double discharge the double and not sure which of the two shots killed it? At that range you only have one go.

I have a .416 Hoffmann and have found it to be excellent. Jack Carter of Trophy Bonded Bullets gave me the load he shot in his Hoffman which is 81 grains of RL15, a Federal 215 magnum primer and 400 grain Trophy Bonded bearclaw. That load goes 2,510 FPS out of my model 70. I remember Jack telling me. "It's a real killing machine". He was right.

IIRC, the .416 Remington was developed for them by George Hofmann. It was based off the .416 Hofmann and He moved the shoulder back approximately 1/16" so that you could shoot Remington ammunition in a Hofmann, but not vice a versa.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
I have taken two ele, 3 cape buff, 1 lion, 1 hippo and assorted plains game with my 416 REM. I use 400 grain swift A frames, and Barnes Solids. 71.5 grains of Varget. I have had flawless performance.
You will not be dissapointed

Andrew. This is exactly the loads that I use. Everything dies quickly.
The Jarrett is extremely accurate.

Andrew,

Want to try my Blaser 500j hahahahaha ;-)

5 down 1 up the spout !