I'm just curious about something I heard recently (and I'm coming up on my first Africa trip):

I heard that when you book a 'package deal' like 7 days, 5 animals for $3500 (or something similar), the outfitter is just about breaking even, and hoping that you'll shoot extra animals so that he'll make a profit.

Two questions:

1. Is the statement above accurate?
2. Would it be considered rude to just shoot the animals in your package without shooting extra animals?

Let me know what you all think.

1. It could be, depending on the outfitter.
2. Sticking to the terms of your 'contract' is never rude.

Plan a budget; add 10%, and stick to it.

George

Why would it be rude? You paid for 5 animals, why would you have to shoot more? Yes it is fun to shoot more, but it is not mandatory.

If he wasn't making money, I think the hunt would be more expensive.

Package hunts are great for the first time hunter. They make it easy to plan the cost of a trip. I think most operations make money on their packages. True most people take additional animals however in my experience the PH will usually work with the client on prices. Reality is that most of the money made on an african hunt is through the Daily Fees. There is not much money in animals unless the PH owns the farm you are hunting on. Even then the profit is not that great. These statements apply mostly to SA and Namibia where hunting is primarliy on game ranches.

quote:

Originally posted by paul55:
I'm just curious about something I heard recently (and I'm coming up on my first Africa trip):

I heard that when you book a 'package deal' like 7 days, 5 animals for $3500 (or something similar), the outfitter is just about breaking even, and hoping that you'll shoot extra animals so that he'll make a profit.

Two questions:

1. Is the statement above accurate?
2. Would it be considered rude to just shoot the animals in your package without shooting extra animals?

Let me know what you all think.

Let them think it's rude if they want to do so, only do what you want, its your hunt. (and your money)

Thanks for the responses so far. I want to enjoy my first Africa hunt (I'm sure I will), and I want to follow proper etiquette in the process. I was just curious about this.

I think George makes a good point also. Make a budget while you're thinking clearly, and stick to it. Your budget might allow for an extra animal or two, but don't shoot 5 extra if your budget allowed for 2 extra.

Roscoe: good point also. That was my thought on the package. It's my first trip, and the package made it affordable and easy to estimate costs. Once I find out what it's all about, I can plan some extras for my next trip, including sight seeing, etc. I'll have a better idea at that point what the costs will be.

Thanks again!

Also keep in mind that the cost of shipping hides, capes, horns, etc. back and taxidermy fees will be substantial.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
1. It could be, depending on the outfitter.
2. Sticking to the terms of your 'contract' is never rude.

Plan a budget; add 10%, and stick to it.

George

This is truly sage advice. I know I would have a really hard time sticking to a pkg if an outstanding specimen not in the contract were to present itself.

I know a guy that passed on a grysbok cause he didn't want one. He took a picture. His PH begged and pleaded him to shoot it.

It would have been a new world record. He's been kicking himself ever since.

The hunt I went on was a package hunt. They ask us before we went out what we wanted. I started with the package and added a couple of animals.I was on a group hunt if you are in a group the people who up front said they were going to be shooting a bunch had the better hunting areas. We all had the same great service from the Ph and lodges. I had a good trip and was happy.
The shipment and mounting cost as much as the trip.
I would also say up front I wanted to go to the large ranchs to hunt.We went on several differnt areas and some of the smaller ones were not worth the time. When you fly to Africa and hunt in a pasture its not too good. We did go to some big places that really made the trip great.

I was called a "bloody cheap bastard" by my PH/outfitter last year because I refused to shoot a big kudu we happened to drive up on while hunting leopard bait. I didn't shoot it because I already have two kudu mounted and I don't really want another one; and, I would have had to have shot it from the front seat of the hunting vehicle, which I refused to do. We did get out and try a stalk the right way, but the grass was just too damn tall.

Every time I have been, I have felt pressure to shoot more than what was on my "list."

Virtually as soon as we got in the truck at the airport my PH asked me what me expectations and feelings were on a few subjects. I told him.

No using the bakkie apart from to take us to the part of the rance we were going to stalk. I have no interest in shooting from the truck. This was amended when we went out to get some scrub hares that I was going to cook for the family.

I'm happy to stalk up on animals not on my list but I'm unlikely to change mymind once I'm 30yds away.

I won't take risky shots

Especially early in the hunt & I wouldn't take animals not on my wish list.

Walk me all morning and all afternoon. I'm here to hunt not take siesta's.

And... you are in charge so if you think you need to shoot an animal I have not shot well then do so with no questions asked. As it happens he had to shoot on my Eland and I was pleased he did.

The result was a safari with no crossed wires and although we didn't bag up on loads of game, everything was hard earned. We hunted hard and parted mates, and I look forward to going back.

Like with any business I think everyone has their way of doing things ands honesty in expectations is the key to success. Don't worry what everyone else has done, if you want to do something your way then it is your hunt and your perogative.

Have fun
FB

quote:

Originally posted by paul55:

I heard that when you book a 'package deal' like 7 days, 5 animals for $3500 (or something similar), the outfitter is just about breaking even,
Let me know what you all think.

That depends "if" you shoot all the animals. We've done one package hunt, 10 days with 8 animals, we didn't get a kudu or a hartebeest. No refund was offered and none was asked for, I'd say the guy made money. In the end hunting is still hunting, it should never be a shopping list, and some times you don't get the animal you hunt but I'd much rather pay for what I shoot than pay for what I "might" or "could" shoot. I don't plan to do any more package hunts.

Thanks for all of your input. We're counting down the days (8 days and counting...)

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
I was called a "bloody cheap bastard" by my PH/outfitter last year

I guess it goes without saying that you didn't hunt with the guy who insulted you again.

quote:

No refund was offered and none was asked for

Although many package hunts are sold worldwide, the risk of buying these hunts is that you may not get all the animals included in the package. It is therefore advisable to ask your outfitter for a breakdown on the cost - even if the hunt is sold as a package. That way both parties will know beforehand what the price tag for each animal is and should you not get all your animals a refund can be calculated. In my view your outfitter should have given you a refund for your Kudu and Hartebeest.

Chris,
that is a gentlemen agreement, and should be managed before start hunting, and I say this beeing a customer.

As client I say also that it could be applied when animals present in the package have not been found in spite of any effort.

This mean that the hunter has to be ready, concentrated and resolute. I know some hunter that had this problem, but they were following different minds and thoughts than the hunt.

I was on a package hunt last year, and I did not have any problem, I had even the time to spend a day to go with Johan, the outfitter, and his family to Keetmansoop, where he had some business to manage.

On 10 animals that I have to hunt, I got back home having shooted 13, 1 free (shakal), 1 paid (blesbok), and 1 free again, a steenbuck. that Johan asked me for the skin. We saw also a caracal, but I had no occasion to shoot as Johan was asking to me. I am wanderinf if it was free or not.

I haven't booked any package hunts except for the main target species, in that case cape buffalo included in the price. It gives one the shits when the PH keeps harping on about all the animals on the allocated quota as if I cared whether or not I took any. Of course I took some but had no interest in shooting twelve more animals. Take them as they came, or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
Also keep in mind that the cost of shipping hides, capes, horns, etc. back and taxidermy fees will be substantial.

Yes Substantial, but 8 to 12 months later.

Plenty of time to come up with another $1500-2500

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
I know a guy that passed on a grysbok cause he didn't want one. He took a picture. His PH begged and pleaded him to shoot it.

It would have been a new world record. He's been kicking himself ever since.

I passed on what looked like an honest 30" Nyala on my first safari because I hadn't budgeted for the trophy fee. STUPID! I should have shot it and wired the PH the money a month or two later. When in doubt...SHOOT! Making matters worse, my hunting partner took a Nyala that went 31.5" two days later...same one? Maybe.



JMHO,

John

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
I know a guy that passed on a grysbok cause he didn't want one. He took a picture. His PH begged and pleaded him to shoot it.

It would have been a new world record. He's been kicking himself ever since.

I passed on what looked like an honest 30" Nyala on my first safari because I hadn't budgeted for the trophy fee. STUPID! I should have shot it and wired the PH the money a month or two later. When in doubt...SHOOT! Making matters worse, my hunting partner took a Nyala that went 31.5" two days later...same one? Maybe.



JMHO,

John

Ouch!

quote:

Reply

my first trip was a pkg.8 days zebra,eland,kudu,gemsbok. I never saw an eland not for the lack of trying. The PH was the owner and told me he would contact the agent here in the states that I booked thru and was holding the money to refund the trophy fee for the eland. I told him when I got the refund I'd send him a Cashier's Cheque for his and the camp's tip. I never got the refund though I made several phone calls to follow up. He never got his tips. I never used either the agent nor the PH again.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
I know a guy that passed on a grysbok cause he didn't want one. He took a picture. His PH begged and pleaded him to shoot it.

It would have been a new world record. He's been kicking himself ever since.

I passed on what looked like an honest 30" Nyala on my first safari because I hadn't budgeted for the trophy fee. STUPID! I should have shot it and wired the PH the money a month or two later. When in doubt...SHOOT! Making matters worse, my hunting partner took a Nyala that went 31.5" two days later...same one? Maybe.



JMHO,

John

Can you do this? I was wondering if you had to have all the cash in your pocket. I wouldn't want to carry too much cash with me, so if I did see this 'once in a lifetime trophy' I might have a problem. Can you settle up after the hunt by wiring extra $$? I'm guessing this might go on a case-by-case basis, or maybe if you've hunted with that particular outfitter before there's a level of trust built up.

I think it's definitely something to work out with a PH ahead of time. Just say, "look, this is what I have budgeted for trophy fees but if we see an extra animal that is world class and you say I should take it, you may have to wait a few weeks for the cash". I think most PHs and outfitters would have no problem with this as it's more money in their pocket and, assuming the animal is really world class, it's great advertising for them if you do take it. Further, if the PH knows you want your animals he has the ability to hold up shipping them to you until the extra animals are paid for. Just as an example, I once went on a PAC elephant hunt where the bulls didn't cooperate. I had blown my trophy fees on some great plains game by the end of 10 days and the PH told me, "Look, if the elephants come back to the area, we'll take one and you can wire me the cash later".

JMHO,

John

I agree with the PH working with you if you need to wire them some money when you get back. They have you animals and can feel pretty confident you would not stiff them. Of course, I would discuss it in advance. OR I would feel free to just take the animals you really want to take. I think the key is communication. If the guide knows up front what your expectations and budget ate, if they are a good guide, they should respect these.

No it is NOT rude to shoot only what is in your package.

I specialize in packages and if one of my outfitters pulls anything like that with a client (ie hard selling additional animals) I will cut him off asap. They all know that.

I have no idea how others work, but I make sure my outfitters build in enough profit on a package to make sure it is worthwhile for them. This assures a quality hunt for the client.

I also try to assure that all animals in a package are relatively common for a particular outfitter to avoid any lack of opportunity during the hunt. However it is still hunting and "stuff happens".

I will add that they certainly will be happy if you add a few critters to the package.

TJR