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Hi Guys, Was just reading the draft norms and standards for hunting in SA. I was wondering what does it take to become a PH (to operate in various countries). Does age matter, what are average earning as an appie etc what is expected of your behind the scenes etc | ||
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I see you're in Zim... the best person for you to talk to is Ganyana who posts here. Try sending him a PM and I'm sure he'll get back to you. | |||
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I guess you are talking about African countries.... The best bet would be to get your license in Zim. Having a Zim license would make it easier for you to hunt other African countries than if you qualified elsewhere. Gaining a Zim license would entail a minimum of two years working as a gopher for a hunting company, and in most cases a year or two more. It would mean passing the learners license, a shooting practical, and the full license (theory), before tackling a stringent practical examination. Experience is what the practical is all about and you'd have to make sure you had a fair amount of dangerous game experience before attending it. The most important experience required by examiners is elephant. And not only accompanying elephant hunts and backing up etc - shooting them yourself too. Don Heath would be the fellow to give you the lowdown in detail. Maybe he will surface from his Christmas slumber soon and tell you more..... Good luck, Dave | |||
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I guess you'd have to be 18 to sit the exams, and I wouldn't expect much in the way of pay for the first two years at least. But you'll earn enough to live and you should be too busy to care anyway. | |||
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Roy Ludick is now chief examiner royludick@gatorzw.com awsomeg@gatrorzw.com reaches Ernie Van Staden who runs the learners programmes soaz@mweb.co.zw reaches the association. Appie...21st century word for 'slave' | |||
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Holzer, From what I can tell a frontal lobotomy would be a good start.  Good luck. | |||
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so in other words being a PH is not as 'glamorous' as one would think. What would you 'old pros' say to someone wanting to become a PH who is over 30 with a family | |||
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I'll guess the top 10 - 20 most booked in the world have it very good. The rest likely work very hard, striving to be seen as one of the best. But if a guy never gets there I am afraid he is not earning enough to be comfortable when he's no longer physically able to guide professionally. I hope that I am wrong, and that the guys [PH's] over all can earn enough to retire with enough $$$ to see them through till their days on Earth come to an end. I am just expressing thoughts that have come to me in the way animals have instincts. I don't know at all. Jack OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.} | |||
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holzer375 Being a HP is a young mans game. It can be FANTASTIC fun while you have no cares and can run off and do 50 days in west Africa before the zim season starts and finish off with 100 days in tanzania etc...got friends who used to regularly put in 220 days actual hunting with clients a year. They made good money. But 220 days hunting equals roughly 320 days in the field... Also, when zim economy was a train smash, PH's were doing relatively well - especially compared to a parks officer like me or a teacher like my wife. Ok, the civil service pay is still a joke but PH salaries have not really gone up in the last 18 years...My notes show that in 1993 the operator paid me $120 per day and he supplied the truck (he didn't like my old landrover and I couldn't hunt out of a parks truck ) Today you are going to get at best $125 per day without a vehicle..and most pay arround 175 per day with your own truck and tracker etc. It costs more than $50 a day to run a newish truck in the bush...so you do the maths.To a very large extent you are relying on the tips to come out at the end of the year. Europeans do not give good tips generally, Aussis give tips like 'be nice to your mother' and in hard years (like now) even the Americans are a little tighter with the cash than they used to be. Also when you are in your 20 and 30's - if the client is a jerk, you shrug it off and keep going, and you manage to be bright and fresh when you pick up the next client...as I get older I find it increasingly difficult to bounce back into 'happy' mode after a difficult hunt. Bad area, poaching out of control or client who thinks that you are just going to drive up to a lion or a buff and shoot it out of the truck window...whatever, hunt ends on a low note...you pick up next guy already tired, and he is a jerk, there are problems in camp...It gets harder and harder to put in the work necessary to get a client good trophies. I appreciate this is alot to do with personality...but also simple energy levels. I can no longer get up at 4am day in and day out, especially if things are not going smoothly. I need at least 3-4 days after a difficult hunt to catch up on sleep, fix vehicle, and kit and recharge batteries so I am ready to give the next client 100% at the start of his hunt. (after a good hunt I still like 2 days to check kit and reorganise...but that is also the time the missus likes to see me!) Simply put...at the end of the day if you want a family life and are over 40 you probably shouldn't be doing more than 100-120 days a year...which means you had better be making comission selling the hunt, be the operator not the grunt on the ground etc... I know a handful of 'old men' like Johnny Johnson who seem to be able to just keep going as PH's but far too many who are still playing at PH alone by age 50 are struggling. Sure, camp manager who does the odd hunt- great- especially if it is with a client you have enjoyed hunting with in the past..but full time PH...no | |||
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Best post of the last 12 months!  Did I mention I'll be 54 this year and am trying to retire from the field.  | |||
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I don't want to start a war of words here as I am sure this has been spoken of before but as an Aussie that has very much enjoied the Africa experience I like most Aussie's really struggle with the tip thing! It not part of our culture. I am not a wealthy man and I bust my ass to save for this hunt finding it difficult to understand why there is a need to hand over a large wad of coin when that is what I have paid for?? If i get something well over the top yes but so far in the couple of hunts I have done I got what i paid for?? As for the Question about guiding I guess if hunting makings your blood rush,you love the bush more than the city life, can cope with large amounts of time away from your family then follow your dream | |||
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IMO one of the best POST of All Time on this Forum... A young ZIM PH told me a few years back: Its a kind of a lifestyle to be a PH... nothing more ! Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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Mate, I don't think the point about Aussies not tipping was a criticism.... just an observation. Pretty much all of us know it's just a fact of life that tipping simply isn't in Aussie culture at all. | |||
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VERY TRUE i have seen it MANY Times.... Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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Sorry to divert the conversation, but I have to respond to this. Translation - The Americans are subsidizing African hunting for others. If Americans didn't tip, as we've been told by our friendly African experts on here that we should, the daily rates for everyone would increase. Note - I left my PH a tip that I think was inline with the American standard. Hopefully, he feels the same way. I certainly believe that the PH earned the money and I gave the completely voluntarily. What chaps my ass is that there are different costs associated with your hunt depending upon the location of your home airport and that the industry is okay with this arrangement. | |||
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God bless America. For tipping our hard-working PH's and safari staff, and for so much more. David | |||
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dla69, With all due respect, if you for a moment think that Americans are the only ones who give tips or that they give the largest tips, you're wrong. No tips are compulsory from anyone. Some people do tip, some don't, some tip big and some don't. A wise PH will take it as it comes and not worry about it if it doesn't. | |||
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dla69, Zhaba ...et al. In an ideal world I would rather earn a realistic pay for the hunt, forgo the tips and be able to take out insurance agaist a) clients defaulting on payments b) Shooting wrong animal and getting fined by parks etc. It isn't ging to happen...and no operator is going to have three pricing levels because he can count on an American paying a decent tip to the PH so he cn pay the PH 175 per day, a different price because if the client is European he needs to pay the PH 225 per day and pay 250 per day if the client is an Aussie. When I am doing a hunt on my own place, with my own quota, the agent makes it clear that no tip is expected for me. My prices are high enough and I am making enough no to ned or expect it. Mt staff though...always expect a tip! When I am freelance hunting for another operator - I rely on the tip - without it, In many areas it isn't worth doing the hunt - the wear and tear on the vehicle is 100-150 a day. Pop a couple of tires and break a spring and you are working for the tip alone... | |||
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A PH once told me that his American clients viewed him "as almost god-like" while to most Europeans he was "just another servant". Just his observation.... | |||
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Ganyana +1 Harris Safaris PO Box 853 Gillitts RSA 3603 www.southernafricansafaris.co.za https://www.facebook.com/pages...=aymt_homepage_panel "There is something about safari life that makes you forget all your sorrows and feel as if you had drunk half a bottle of champagne." - Karen Blixen, | |||
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7kongoni...that applies to clients from only two european countries in my experience. I have bluntly explained to said clients that my Tracker and I are a seperate company and we are contracted by the operator to suply a professional service- we are not hired hands. I have learned that it is simpler to make this clear at the begining of the hunt to all clients, regardless of nationality. The client is paying th operator and the camp staff are his. My truck, tracker and I are contracted in - and I am nobodys 'servant' - and nor is my tracker! Like all things in hunting, explaining evrything honestly before the hunt starts significantly reduces the risk of unplesantness later. Also, we all come from very diverse backgrounds and very different hunting cultures. In some countries hunting is restricted almost exclusively to the very rich - ordinary folk do not huntand are hired in to drive the game to the 'hunter'. In others Hunting is almost excusively restricted to the middle class, and they want to do things on their own and almost resent the presence of the PH who is viewed more like a policeman than a guide...Others want their PH to be a tutor and teach them about the bush and about Africa - and these are the ones I enjoy most. Many simply want to kill something and have it in the salt as quickly as possible with the least possible exposure to tsetse flys, heat, dust and Africa in General! It takes all sorts to make the world and cultures are very different. Being a sucessful PH is often far more about man management skills than hunting ability | |||
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I'd say always rather than often. | |||
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Do we see any one becoming a PH or an apprentice just to lead adventurous life or different lifestyle, pretty well knowing that it is not going to be their source of income for them ,but they do it just for the experience .Say over a period of 1 or 2 years, take a break from your regular business. If there was something that like I think it would be great. Pay the PH a nominal amount to care of your food and accommodation and probably a little bit more on top of that just to accommodate your presence .I am sure it would be a learning experience, you would learn a lot more this way than what you would over a dozen safaris as a client over the years. Obviously free hunts are not to be expected | |||
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Some do but you're more likely to work as a gofer rather than an appy. | |||
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Hi Ganyana Thank you for the insight into your work. How many days a year do you PH these days? I spent some time at SCI with a young PH (22 or so) who was working up in Tanzania. He loved hunting but it seemed to me he also enjoyed getting back to Dar and the girls there. I asked him about it, and he said there are plenty of lovlies there, and the the whole PH/bush man thing worked like a charm for him. So shouldn't you also put this down as a career plus?  ______________________________ "Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??" Josie Wales 1866 | |||
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PH's think it works like a charm....Usually after a dozen beers or so, by which stage anyone thinks all they say and do is working like a charm. | |||
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In todays world....a lobatomy!  Rich Elliott Rich Elliott Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris | |||
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Are you kidding? Glamour is this cat's middle name, baby!  ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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I'd recognize those gnashers anywhere! | |||
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Fare call Ganyana I am not against tipping I just find it difficult. Was ina camp with a guy that came up with a great wad of dollarsand and the looks I got to say you better do the same really stung seeing it was a really poor hunt. But I wish you the best of luck. | |||
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if Phs are struggling to come out finacially at the end of a hunt why does there seem to be so many. Just look at the list of Phs on the ZPHGA site. Has it got something to do with supply and demand??? | |||
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1) Prior to 1999 there was 40% more hunting in Zim than there is now. 2) Prior to 2008 - PH's were doing 'relatively well' 3) many Zim PH's nolonger primarily hunt in Zim- go to tanzania, Moz, Cameroon etc- there are an awful lot of Zim PH's...BUT they all keep their Zim License vailid! 4) Many - like me, are semi retired. I did 64 days last year...and only that many becuase the second client failed to get his lion and I resold the quota...making for an extra 21 day safari! - At least half on that list are 'part time' PH's. Got a regular job be it camp manager, cattle buyer, teacher etc, and fill in with some hunting each year. Actually no 4 is about the best possition to be in- you hunt only with the clients you want- you know it is going to be a fun hunt because you know the clients and you know the area... As an example, I have a very good friend who I NEVER hunt with. We are mates and I know he is an achievement driven person who hunts with a copy of the record book in his top pocket and a tape measure in his back one...I always manage to find him a young PH eager to make a name for himself who rise to the challenge and drive himself to help X achive his goals...On the shooting range we are friendly rivals...Hunting with him would come into the 'nightmare' category. But some guys love it. I have reached the stage (and age) where I do not need to take whatever client is offered. I do not need to take the 'quick and dirty' 5 day "specials" for buff in a third rate area...But somebody has to do them! And there are (thank goodness) always the up and comming PH who will try and try and try! | |||
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Thats is interesting ...  Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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I had a chance once but backed out stupidly. I researched high and low on how I as a 21 year american could become a PH. I received the most excellent help from Ken Wilson from Sportsman On Film who recommended that I meet with him at SCI in reno. I did. Then I spoke with one Jeff Rann's men from the 777 in Hondo,TX. I sent them a resume and they replied with offering me a job a the 777 for two years and after that Jeff would get me a shot at it. Sad thing is I just couldn't afford to at the time. Damn. If only I would of waited another couple years. But anyway those guys were very helpful and generous. Great people. " Knowledge without experience is just information. " - Mark Twain | |||
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