I have been fortunate enough to have hunted Southern Africa on several occasions.

I have fallen asleep with the sounds of lion roaring within a 100 meters of my safari tent, belligerent hippo grunting along the banks of the adjacent river, a crocodile grabbing an unlucky impala (and doing the death roll) within 20 meters of my safari tent, leopard sawing across the river, hyena squabbling over a kill, elephant trumpeting in anger as they are being harassed by a pride of lion, buffalo grunting as they fight for dominance, etc.

We have encountered black mambas, spitting cobras, puff adders, and boomslangs while hunting in the Zimbabwe's Lower Zambezi Valley and Lowveld.

I have been harassed relentlessly by tsetse flies and malaria transmitting mosquitoes.

I have returned to the safari camp bleeding and with torn clothing after hunting various dangerous game in the thick jess.

I have been intimidated by condescending TSA agents upon departure and arrival here in the USA.

I have completed more than my fair share of paperwork including contracts, rifle permits, CITES permits, visas, etc.

I have endured 16 brutal hours sitting in a trans-Atlantic coach seat.

On the other hand, I have hunted several exotics here in Texas and have enjoyed the experience, challenge, and adventure and will continue to do so.

Regarding Lying Aid's comment "Come hunt here and avoid the African 'experience' entirely", sorry Lying Aid, but it ain't gunna happen.

When Southern Africa beckons again, I will contact my safari booking/travel agents, update my CBP Form 4457 forms, spend some quality time at the gun range, obtain another prescription for Malarone, replenish my supply of sleep aid for the trans-Atlantic flight, purchase a couple of bottles of Avon Skin So Soft Bug Guard Plus IR3535® Expedition, re-supply my med kit with band-aids and aspirin, and grab my passport as I depart for the airport.

Hey, by the way, how are the three amigos (i.e. - Scimitar Horned Oryx, Addax and Dama Gazelle) doing in their native countries?

Excerpt from Lying Aid Facebook page:

"American hunters do not like to travel overseas for many reasons, among them being scared of diseases, insects, heat, drought, walking through the bush, airplanes, permits to be allowed to import rifles and ammunition, permits to be able to export their trophies – the list is endless."

***
Lying Aid Facebook page (August 26, 2017)

Exotic trophy hunting?

For years and years, ranches in Texas mainly (and the trend is spreading) have built up their “stocks” of exotic animals – African, Asian, European.

These are all herbivores, but you can now trophy hunt pretty much any sort of herbivore that can be farmed.

Just google “Texas exotics species hunts” and you will get the list. This is just one place: XXXXX

Species from all over the world raised in Texas for hunters – why else raise them?

So now here comes the question you have been waiting for:

With so many exotic species raised on ranches in Texas, what is going to happen to trophy hunting industries in places like South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tanzania?

Put on your seat belts the hunting operators there, because pretty soon Texas will kill your industry. American hunters do not like to travel overseas for many reasons, among them being scared of diseases, insects, heat, drought, walking through the bush, airplanes, permits to be allowed to import rifles and ammunition, permits to be able to export their trophies – the list is endless.

So Texas is now offering a much simpler solution – come hunt here and avoid the African “experience” entirely.

Of course, Texas is not offering things like leopards and lions and buffalos and elephants – but expect rhinos soon.

So word of advice to African hunting operators – seek an alternative source of income. You will have already noticed that your business is not doing well with US bans on elephant trophies and heavy restrictions on lion trophy imports. Perhaps your big white hunter days are over?

Oh, and all the trophy hunter claims that "hunting is conservation" ring ever more hollowly. Do they mean that by hunting an oryx in Texas they contribute to conservation?
***

I find the price of many of the African species in TX beyond ridiculous. Other than that, I found my SA hunt very similar to a TX Hill Country experience in many ways.

Without taking sides on the issue, there is an additional concern among many people about traveler safety in Africa due to increased violence due to terrorism and criminal activity.

This is also true for many parts of Europe, for Mexico, and other countries. It is also true for some US cities. Ignoring this will not make it go away.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
I find the price of many of the African species in TX beyond ridiculous. Other than that, I found my SA hunt very similar to a TX Hill Country experience in many ways.

Yep!

One or two people have made it worse, I can't remember the assholes name, but someone is actively working to run the African species market in texas like a pyramid scheme.

Traveling to Texas to shoot a Kudu or Sable, and comparing it to doing the same in Africa is like comparing a cheap, fast food meal to a fine dining experience in an upscale restaurant. Sure, the end result is similar, but the gist of the experience lies in the details and nuances, and Texas, while a fun place to hunt, can not compare with Africa in that regard. This is not a knock against Texas. In fact, one thing Texas CAN offer that Africa can't is the fact that you can take the meat home. I've thought of going to Texas and getting an Eland just so I could have a freezer full of that amazing meat, but I'd rather put the money toward another safari.

While I would like to shoot a Greater Kudu, doing so here in Texas would simply not be be the same thing on any level.

To each their own.

+1

I'm a bit puzzled by this thread.

I made a trip to Namibia and took eight different species for less money than some people I know spend just for a spot on a South Texas whitetail lease.

I compared the out-of-state costs to drive to New Mexico to hunt an oryx and found that I can fly to Namibia and take two of them cheaper!

As far as "safety", well, I can't understand why guys who measure the size of their testicles by how close they came to being trampled, gored, or mauled by some African animal can be put off by overblown anecdotes about foreign crime when they're more likely to run into worse criminals in Texas just across the fence in a trailer full of AR-15's cooking meth or trafficking undocumenteds.

African plains game remains a relative hunter's bargain.

I have hunted in TX and seen some African game. It seems weird to me. I just can't do it.

On the other hand, I have thought about whacking an eland for the meat.

quote:

On the other hand, I have thought about whacking an eland for the meat.

I have done that with Axis does, and have looked at going after Nilgai for the same reason.

That is the only reason I would ever think about trying for any of the exotics, and even then, I do not see how the meat, no matter how good it tasted, would taste the same as that from an animal in its native habitat cooked over wood from that habitat.

I am glad there are exotics in Texas.

I have hunted axis in Texas and may do that often in the future.

I enjoy seeing herds of axis and black buck in the hill country.

I don't see the whole complaining about shooting African plains game in Texas.

90 percent of South Africa plains game are shot in the same high rended operation in Africa.

African traveling and traveling with guns is getting to really suck. The whole ship and dip stuff sucks.

Mike

If hunting African or other exotic game in Texas is one of our problems, we don't have many problems. I have no personal interest in doing so, other than contemplating an eland for the freezer like some others, but I'd never begrudge anyone else doing it.

I really haven't seen anyone complaining, at least in the comments that have been made.

Mostly folks just saying that is is not something they are all that interested in.

Some of what we call exotics are really only huntable in Texas. Dhama gazelle, scimitar Oryx, nilgai, blackjack and axis deer are not really huntable in their original locations.

.

I have deeply enjoyed my axis, blackbuck, fallow, sika, and aoudad hunts in Texas, they were challenging and fun, but the Kudu, Sable, Gemsbok, and Springbok that I have seen during some of my hunts there stood around in the open looking for feed. They were nowhere near as cagey as their cousins over in their native grounds. Add in the cost, and it is a no brainer that the superior adventure lies in traveling over to Africa to hunt, regardless of the red tape, and endless time spent in the airplane

quote:

Dhama gazelle, scimitar Oryx, nilgai, blackjack and axis deer are not really huntable in their original locations.

Very true and for some folks that are into collecting the different species, Texas is their only option.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Some of what we call exotics are really only huntable in Texas. Dhama gazelle, scimitar Oryx, nilgai, blackjack and axis deer are not really huntable in their original locations.

.

This is true...Addax is another key species there..like Aoudad all from North Africa originally. Many others, from India...

However....I could simply never personally hunt typical plains game there. Somehow in my mind...not hunting them in Africa and having the entire experience and ALL of the different Flora and Fauna...couldn't do it (would have zero desire to)
Yet...I would love to hunt Audad there...Axis... scimitar horned Oryx
It's a bit of a paradox and contradiction somehow

You guys that hunt exotics in Texas but wouldn't hunt African exotics confuse me.

I have hunted in Africa, and while I haven't hunted exotics in Texas, if the price was right and I was happy with the experience of the hunt, and the trophy I wouldn't complain.

Eland in Texas is a stone cold deal if you live close enough or have a frozen delivery truck to haul it back to your home.

I have seen Eland for $4000, we have bought 4H steers from a little 8 year old cowgirls for more at the county fair.

Just no. And the prices are so high that one kudu shot in Texas would almost pay for an entire African hunt. But I don't think I would do it for free. Having said that, I wouldn't mind hunting nilgai.

Africa is turning into ecotourism crap you won't be hunting there in 20 years at all .I.saw the same thing in Alaska as in Texas super rich got in a big pen and shot elk ,buffalo and reindeer .It was funny one tv show filmed there a week we could hear them say we are in the wilds of Alaska .I never thought penned hunting would be in Alaska but it's there .I would rather be in the real wild Alaska than in a pen anywhere .Wild Africa is about gone too many people and unstable governments .My ecology teacher said the cow would end African wild life like it did with the buffalo here .It's hard to believe we are seeing the end of hunting before our eyes .Habitat loss and too many people .

quote:

It's hard to believe we are seeing the end of hunting before our eyes .Habitat loss and too many people .

Those two concepts are simply too abstract for way too many people to comprehend, including hunters.

At one point in time I opined that the Future of Hunting was going to end up being totally dependent on High Fenced Private Land.

Too many folks in this day and time do not want to accept or even try and comprehend a concept writers 3/4/5 decades ago were warning about, over population by humans.

There is only a finite amount of land for people to live on and raise food on, but too many people simply refuse to believe it.

I enjoy hunting Texas, nice folks good experience. But it is not Africa. But then again a few years ago my African experience was nothing like my first hunt there in the 60's. Enjoy hunting for what it is, for me it is adventure. The folks you meet in strange and wonderful places. Hunt Texas, but go to Africa for the experience and adventure. It just feels good.

I've taken a few cull exotics home to the freezer. I enjoyed having folks over to eat Eland steaks as much as I enjoy looking at my cape buff mount from TZ.

What would a hartebeest cost? I may not be able to "do Africa" again and NEED one. Childhood issue and that is all. I have a start on the safari experience -- three little trips haven't added up to one typical AR Hunting report/post. However, it no longer hurts to have grown up in Ethiopia with only a catty.

To each their own, but I would much rather see the re-introduction of grizzlies in Colorado and be able to hunt them down the road in their original range

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
Africa is turning into ecotourism crap you won't be hunting there in 20 years at all .I.saw the same thing in Alaska as in Texas super rich got in a big pen and shot elk ,buffalo and reindeer .It was funny one tv show filmed there a week we could hear them say we are in the wilds of Alaska .I never thought penned hunting would be in Alaska but it's there .I would rather be in the real wild Alaska than in a pen anywhere .Wild Africa is about gone too many people and unstable governments .My ecology teacher said the cow would end African wild life like it did with the buffalo here .It's hard to believe we are seeing the end of hunting before our eyes .Habitat loss and too many people .

Horseshit!

People have been crying about the end of hunting in Africa since the 1900s. Roosevelt probably bitched about the change humanity had brought to the veldt.

There is more hunting in more countries in Africa than ever has been. You people need to open your eyes and your checkbooks and go.

Africa has well over 50 nations, at least 17 of them allow hunting. Some places like Tunisia only hunt barbary wild boars, Mauritania only hunts wart hogs, but they are open. Hell even Mauritius has hunting for Rusa deer and wild boar.

Elephants are not endangered, and neither is hunting in Africa.

It needs to be promoted in the right way, but it is not endangered. It is threatened, but where else is it not?

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
What would a hartebeest cost? I may not be able to "do Africa" again and NEED one. Childhood issue and that is all. I have a start on the safari experience -- three little trips haven't added up to one typical AR Hunting report/post. However, it no longer hurts to have grown up in Ethiopia with only a catty.

Call the YO, 777 Ranch, Caveman Wildlife and someone will have one you can kill for about $5000-8500. Depending on what kind of hartebeast you want.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
Africa is turning into ecotourism crap you won't be hunting there in 20 years at all .I.saw the same thing in Alaska as in Texas super rich got in a big pen and shot elk ,buffalo and reindeer .It was funny one tv show filmed there a week we could hear them say we are in the wilds of Alaska .I never thought penned hunting would be in Alaska but it's there .I would rather be in the real wild Alaska than in a pen anywhere .Wild Africa is about gone too many people and unstable governments .My ecology teacher said the cow would end African wild life like it did with the buffalo here .It's hard to believe we are seeing the end of hunting before our eyes .Habitat loss and too many people .

Horseshit!

People have been crying about the end of hunting in Africa since the 1900s. Roosevelt probably bitched about the change humanity had brought to the veldt.

There is more hunting in more countries in Africa than ever has been. You people need to open your eyes and your checkbooks and go.

Africa has well over 50 nations, at least 17 of them allow hunting. Some places like Tunisia only hunt barbary wild boars, Mauritania only hunts wart hogs, but they are open. Hell even Mauritius has hunting for Rusa deer and wild boar.

Elephants are not endangered, and neither is hunting in Africa.

It needs to be promoted in the right way, but it is not endangered. It is threatened, but where else is it not?

How about all of us/any of us that are still alive and AR is still going meet back here in say 10 years and see what shape hunting is in?

quote:

Call the YO, 777 Ranch, Caveman Wildlife and someone will have one you can kill for about $5000-8500. Depending on what kind of hartebeast you want.

Aieesh!!

As others have mentioned there are only 2 reasons I'd hunt exotics in Texas

1. Animal is not huntable in nativ range anymore
2. A cull/management animal for meat.

quote:

Originally posted by cable68:
As others have mentioned there are only 2 reasons I'd hunt exotics in Texas

1. Animal is not huntable in native range anymore
2. A cull/management animal for meat.

Bob Faucett told me of an eland hunt in Texas to fill his freezer. Best if it is a "brother-in-law deal" and that you still go through lots of meat. At sixty now, I and my young wife are almost done cooking for just two people. LOL!

$5K for one animal sounds like surgery money, right there. Plane ride and all sounds like a better plan, even though it's been ten years. Good to have options, tho.

quote:

Originally posted by cable68:
As others have mentioned there are only 2 reasons I'd hunt exotics in Texas

1. Animal is not huntable in nativ range anymore
2. A cull/management animal for meat.

Both are good reasons for hunting the so-called EXOTICS in Texas or any other state.

That said, There is one other good reason to hunt anything in Texas or other state. That is if the hunt is done on foot, and the game, regardless of species, have everything he needs to escape, find plenty of food, and water, then there is no difference in hunting one place than another with the same conditions.

Certainly I would rather hunt Black buck or Nilgai in India, but that is not possible because if not for Texas ranchers they both would be extinct everywhere.

There are places in the hill country of Texas where you could hunt for three days and never even see a Nilgai because of the cover, and his natural instinct allowing him to avoid you inside a 1000 acre fenced pasture.

It is true this is not for everyone, as most here has stated, but there are those hunters who have gotten too old to do a lot of traveling and/or spending a lot of money to hunt the natural habitat of these animals even if they did still inhabit it!

I say if you are young, healthy, and well enough off to afford to hunt anywhere in the world then do that, but don't pontificate to those who can't. Just be glad they are able to at least hunt near their home for something you call an EXOTIC! As some have said here at least they will have the meat for the grill to modify the cost of the hunt.

The fact is I have only hunted one so-called Exotic in Texas, and that was a cull Eland which I took a lot of meat, and had the hide tanned, but because of this thread I'm thinking about doing a Audad,Black buck, and simitar horned Oryx IN TEXAS this winter.

....................................................................

About 12 years ago I had the chance to hunt Aoudad for the pricey sum of $0, the rancher wanted them gone, they were pests. Any size, male or female, the order was just shoot them all. Now, I am kicking myself for not going and the ranchers are making a "killing" selling these hunts.

And that why, the hog problem will never go away. They are a pest too, but now the ranchers can sell hog hunts, so they tolerate the hogs.

Cheap hunts for exotics can be had, if you know someone. Earlier this year, I had the opportunity for a Scimitar-Horned Oryx hunt, again for the pricey sum of $0, any size. I am still trying to work out this hunt, if possible.

And an Axis hunt it not a problem either for free or next to free. Most folks want those dam things gone. They out compete the White-tail for food and the small ranchers want bigger whitetail to sell. I have a front yard full of them every evening, but live in the city and thus cannot shoot, even with a bow.

So what most of you are saying is that you will shoot a game ranched African wildlife species only if it is game ranched in Africa?

But maybe in Texas if it is really cheap, but only for the meat.

But if it isn't native to Africa then it is fair game?

Even though you can hunt nilgai, black buck and axis deer with our AR friend Per Danish (though it is more expensive) in Pakistan, you are willing to do it in Texas because of the reverse laws of physics that apply to Texas and Asiatic and European species.

You can also now hunt some of the more esoteric oryx and gazelle species in the United Arab Emirates, mostly the same ones found in Texas. Does that mean you no longer want to shoot scimitar horned oryx in Texas?

I don't understand the LOGIC.

The "logic" is make a plan, and don't worry about those who won't be hunting with you and what they are thinking. (If I had y'alls money it would be moot.)