I have had a bunch. It is difficult to speculate on what this guy (person) will be like the first time around.

I have found that the older the PH is, the better, as we have similar old age expectations and have nothing in particular to prove.

The problem with kid PH's is they usually have been hustling about in the bush for a couple hundred days before I show up, and still want to run up and down hills, walk 15 mph, etc., after I have been sitting on my can for the last 50 weeks.

I am the last person in the world that can keep their mouth shut, but some of these guys just don't know when to shut up. Even when confronted they still keep it up. Never again for me.

But the real kicker,in my opinion, is when you get a bunch of them sitting around a dinner table and they start whining and complaining about past clients. I usually just butt in and tell them to shut the hell up. Sometimes it works.

Let us all pray for the good PH's!

Will, I agree wholeheartedly. Most PHs, and most outfitters in general, are good people, but some are just awful. I don't want to hear any of their whining about past clients or, for that matter, any whining or complaining of any kind. I am paying for advice and assistance, not for aggravation. I will try to be diplomatic about it, but I have found that being cruelly blunt is usually how I end up. The way I feel is, if you dislike your job so much that you have to complain about it constantly, then why in the hell are you doing it?

Good PHs have good people skills. Even when they know that a particular client (past or present) can't spot game, can't climb a kopje, won't listen to good advice, or can't shoot - they're smart enough to keep quiet about it.

If they remember that I'm the guy paying the bill, handing out the tips, and referrring other clients, and if they won't try to camp out at my home and try to freeload during the entire convention season, they can call me anything they want.........as long as it isn't late to dinner!

AD

[ 07-09-2003, 03:30: Message edited by: allen day ]

Some young PH's tend to tick me off, especially when I know I have shot more game than they have and I have to listen to the BS every evening, especially from some farmers kid that hasn't been in the bush but for more than a couple of years and his cheeks are still pink, and the bush is full of them today...I have dropped a lot of those kind by the wayside. You would be surprised how little experience some Tanzania PH's have, and some of them have a heck of a reputation, because of a good advertising campaign..

Other young PH's are gracious and unassuming, and they are destined for greatness, and if I am exposed to one of these young men, I will do my dead level best to kick start them to a full and successful career.

Getting a toe hold in the Safari business is a tough game, and becomming a famous PH only comes with great people skills...there are few George Hoffmans, Tony Henleys, Mark Selbys, Johan Calitzs, Hugo Seias and a few others and they didn't get that way bad mouthing the hand that feeds them, the client.

Some of the up and commers are the nice guys like Pierre Van Tonder, Paul Zorn, Hannes Swanapol, and others I'm sure, but I have never heard one of the above mentioned PH's bad mouth a client.

I agree with Ray on this one. People skills are the most important thing. I prefer older experienced guys because I relate to them much better. I love to hear the old cropping stories and the good old days stories. You want a PH that is upbeat because if your there for two weeks you dont need to hear the negative side of anything. If you waited five years for this trip you want the bright side of things presented in a way that you can relate too.

Bill,

You are absolutely correct. You have to slow down those young PH's. The guy I hunted with on my first safari, was very young and very fit. After 3 days, we had a little meeting where I informed him of the need to set a reasonable pace.

I've been lucky and never had a PH I couldn't get along with. I have never had a PH bad mouth a past client.

I did share a camp with a PH and his client for 3 days. That PH was a weird motherf*cker. We were only around them at breakfast and at dinner. In three days the PH spoke to his client twice (I am not kidding you - it was like the PH didn't even see the guy). The PH never spoke to or even recognized my wife's presence. The PH spent most of his time trying to amuse/entertain his friend/camp manager/tentmate. Half the time the PH did not eat dinner. I don't know how I would have handled that for 16 days if he had been my PH. Probably killed the little creep. Damn, I was glad to get out of that camp and so was my wife.

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
The client thought that he had an exclusive camp and wasn't too happy about us being there. He didn't have an exclusivity provision in his contract, but I did. That's how we forced my outfitter to get us out of that camp. Later, I talked to the other hunter and, after we left, two more hunters and their PH showed up and stayed in the camp. This guy was really nice and not wealthy. He had saved up for his dream hunt (21 days in Tanzania) and I doubt if he really enjoyed it.

[ 07-09-2003, 09:54: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

I have not had a bad PH but I don't have the experience many on here have. I guess I was luckey when I connected with Mark DeWet and have done most of my hunting with or thru him. He knows me and my needs and when he has to use another PH he has done a good job. I too have never had anyone in Africa bad mouth prior hunters unlike the USA where I have never had a outfitter or guide that didn't bad mouth prior clients. When they are bad mouthing prior clients you know you are next on there list, none of us are perfect and all make mistakes at one time or another and these guys seem to pounce on the chance to share your foibles with others.

I have only been to Africa twice and so far am batting .500.

The first PH we had in South Africa was outstanding. He was in his mid-fifties at the time, was ex-British Army/Rhodesian Army/SAS and had been a PH for quite a while. He told great hunting and war stories, never had a bad word to say about anyone, and was generally just a pleasure to be with.

He took a special interest in my two sons who were along (both high school age at the time) and taught them a lot about recognizing animals in the bush and so forth--and we were just there on a 9-day hunt.

Sadly, he suffered a bad stroke and can't hunt anymore.

The second PH, in Zimbabwe last year, was the son of the landowner and competent in his own right, but lousy at communication, and very reticent in general. This was a buffalo hunt for my son's college graduation present and I expected more, I guess. We'd be driving along, the trackers would tap the top of the Landcruiser, he'd throw on the brakes and jabber with them in Matabele for a while, then say "Come on!" and take off through the bush. A couple of times I had to stop him and ask what we were after. He also smoked while on stalk and did some other things I just know weren't good practices.

This was a camp where, like Terry Carr, my son and I were supposed to be the exclusive clients, but were paracuted in on my a group of five, and later another group of three, hunters. I caught the PH in a number of lies (we were going to the adjacent property because "the owner had seen buffalo that morning," when actually it was just to get us away from the other hunters who had complained, and they were paying more) and in general he just didn't seem very enthusiastic.

The first day he about walked me into the ground, even though I had clearly explained my physical limitations and the fact my son was still recovering from ACL replacement surgery from a sports injury less than a year earlier.

His dinner conversation consisted of "pass the salt" and often he sat with the other 4 PHs in camp and didn't even talk to us.

I think in the future (if there ARE any more safaris in my future) I'll get every detail in writing, and insist on speaking with the PH I will be with before signing up. If a face-to-face with the PH just isn't possible, I'll state to the outfitter in no uncertain terms what I expect from the PH.

Of course, there is no way one can be 100% sure of anything, especially in Africa, but I think we need to stop assuming any PH we get is going to be another Harry Selby--they're not growing them that way too much any more.

BTW, I can't agree more with Allen Day about PH's mooching off us while they're in the States. While there may be some genuine friendships that evolve over time, I'm convinced most of it is just a perpetuation of the "romance of safari" myth that a lot of us buy into--now we have a real, honest-to-goodness Professional Hunter who will stay with us, eat our food, allow himself to be shown off to our friends, and keep the romance of the campfire going until the next safari. Not a bad trade-off for free room and board.

[ 07-09-2003, 18:52: Message edited by: Nitro Express ]

I have a friend ( Well I think of him as a friend) that I have hunted with and have seen him stay with another client and the client has a cocktail party to show him to prospective clients etc and watching him go thru this I think he is earning the "free room and board".

Although I am an experiences hunter I am still inexperienced as practising PH. But my last 2 decades as Quality Director of a market-driven company has taught me that the "customer care culture" of a PH is priority number one.

The PH must have the ability to continuously view the whole safari through the eyes of the client.

Not treating him as God, but treating him as the client that pays his wages. Exactly the same as in any other service-sensitive business.

Logic tells me I have to agree with all of the above.
Lochi.

Nitro Express,

The worst thing a PH can do, in my estimation, is jabber at the tracker in his native tongue then holler, "Let's go".

It doesn't take a second to tell the client what the plan is. I don't expect the PH to translate word-for-word what they talked about, just fill me in a little.

The PH I hunted with in Zim, Rory Muil, was the best I have experienced at keeping me informed as to the immediate plan as well as the long range plan.

Small things like that can really make it a more enjoyable experience.

Regards,

Terry

Terry,

That is also true. Proably the worst trip I made was with that type of PH.

I think that part and parcel of that behavior is an attitude that I perceive as "here is this client that is paying the way for me to go play; not much interested in what the client wants; not much interested in talking to him; let's just get through this and I can go get my check."

This, in fairness, may be a reflection of my own personality!! No, I am not applying for a PH position.

I'm glad my batting average is a lot higher than Nitro Express'.

I've only ever had one PH, ( in Zim 1991) that I ever had any type of problem with.

Other than him, every PH I've ever had was really quite good to great.

We have several PH's now, that we have been with 5-6 times, and they are truely friends of the sincerest type.

They come to my house and stay, and it is well worth it to have them around for a few days.

I can tell you in 20 minutes how good a hunt is going to be...Look for a fat and happy camp, happy smiling staff, no gloom, THEN you know you have a good PH and your hunt is going to go well....An unhappy staff and I'm out of there...I have no time for that.

I�ve only been on one safari and my PH was great! One day I was caught with severe homesickness (missed the kids a lot!) and was feeling blue. My PH picked up the vibes and his medicine was: This evening we�ll get you your kudu. We did and the cure worked. A good PH needs to be able to pick up the correct vibes and address eventual problems in a direct -but correct- manner.

My best PH was a 57 yr old guy in Tanzania, he was very polite and professional. His main course every day was to get the animal you were looking for, he was a very quiet, unassuming, hard hunter. In my experience a few of the younger PH's seem to be more high headed than the older guys. They are all good hunters with great tracking and game spotting skills but are sorely lacking in the social department. I agree with Ray, Arrogant behavior from a PH shouldn't be tolerated, not for one day. I don't feel it's a PH's job to entertain us, but we should be treated with respect and professionalism, just like I have to do in my business every day. I think we all need to take care not to expect a PH to do a tap dance for us 24 hrs a day. We need to remind ourselves that they are working and there is a lot more on their minds than whether or not we are laughing at a new joke every few minutes.

A common thread here seems to be that, as PHs go, the older they come, the better they are--and I generally agree.

With age comes esperience and maturity (at least usually). That leads, in the best of us (the best PHs included), to a quiet self-confidence and a feeling of comfort in one's own skin.

I think we all just like being around someone like that--I mean, anyone with those qualities, not just PHs.

And it is true, at least in my experience, that some of the younger ones in every walk of life definitely lack empathy and social skills.

Let's not forget, though, that there are many exceptions to this rule. I usually react badly, at least at first, if my guide or PH turns out to be very much younger than I am.

But I try to remember that when Bob Ruark went on his first safari with Ker & Downey, he seemed to have a pretty good time with the then less than 30 year old Harry Selby.

So, I try to have an open mind, but I don't let that keep me from calling a spade a spade when I end up with some callow jerk, which unfortunately has happened more often in my experience than I would have liked.

I have hunted with PH guys from 21 - late 50's. No comparison - the older the guys - the better companions they have been .. If I have a choice between listening around a campfire to some kid who wants to talk about cricket and 'soccer' .. and who once went after a wounded lion ... or some grizzled Rhodie who survived the bushwar .. and has 30 years experience .. and maybe thinks that I might have a better safari if he can get an extra permit or something for me ... yeah .. older whisky .....

Maybe its just that the jackasses have a chance of being weeded out of the business by the time they get "aged".

Same goes for guides in NA. A lot of the "kids" have big chips on their shoulders, and try way to hard to impress everyone.

FWIW, however, in my one and only African experience, the younger PH's (about my age...30-something) were fantastic. Solid guys with great attitudes, and hard hunters. It felt more like we were hunting together, rather than being "guided".

If the PH on my next trip is half as good, I'll consider myself lucky.

Besides, I get kinda tired of listening to old curmudgeons that have been there and done that and think they know everything about everthing, and that anyone younger than them doesn't know jack yet.

Cheers,
Canuck

Just a topic for discussion. Hey, but I really do know everything!! I always find it entertaining to see what the kids have to say!!

Therefore, as I see it,

Curmudgeons: 1
Kids: 0

Ngagi,

At the risk of sounding like an old curmudgeon, Andy will try to walk your butt off.

I obviously don't have enough to do...........

Very interesting thread. I am happy that the PH I will be hunting with is also the owner and that my wife and I have spent an evening with him at the home of a past client who I know and who is back over there now looking for a buffalo with him. I was surprised to hear some of these stories and it will serve as a big reminder to check thouroughly into the PH on future safaris.

Those of us who are blessed with a certain level of knowledge and a neverending thirst for more, but who haven't reached the vaunted level of curmudgeon, feel it is our duty, nay, our privilege, to impart upon the youngsters that which we have experienced. However, unlike those short-fused curmudgeons, we choose to impart our knowledge in a cooperative and communal manner. Can you feel the love?

The In-betweens: 3
Curmudgeons: 1
Kids: 0

Regards,
Terry

Terry

Curmudgeoness is not an age but a state of mind. It takes equal parts of experience and B.S. If you work hard and keep your thoughts pure you may, in time, reach the ultimate State of Curmudgeoness, The Atkinsonian Level(This coresponds to the SCI Diamond level of Introduced Species).

Being cooperative and communal may work at the Folk Music Festival but it is no way to become a Curmudgeon.

You must 'Speak Truth and Shoot Straight'. Being opinionated and dogmatic helps also.

[ 07-11-2003, 04:15: Message edited by: Mickey1 ]

Mickey,

Sir, I am familiar with your previous posts. I put it to you that you are not a true curmudgeon. You are a curmudgeon groupie, a mere "wanna be" member of the Royal and Ancient Order of the Curmudgeons. To associate yourself with the likes of Atkinson and Will, may not, in of itself, allow you to reach that level of omniscient crankiness so perfectly displayed by those two full fledged members of RAOC.

With kindest regards,

Terry

[ 07-11-2003, 07:21: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

Terry

I have never claimed to be a Curmudgeon nor do I aspired to that rank. I am much too young and pretty to be even considered for membership.

My only attributes along those lines is that I am opinionated and dogmatic. I only offered the description for those of you whose goal is be considered for Curmudgeonhood.

My goal is to find away to go directly to Cute and bypass the 'Dirty Old Man Stage' in life.

In case anybody else needs a dictionary for these big words

cur�mudg�eon

An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.

cur�mudgeon�ly adj.
cur�mudgeon�ry n.

No, no, no. Please allow me to retort:

A curmudgeon is one level higher on the plane of existence than a cynic, who is himself one level higher than an ignoramus.

An ignoramus doesn't know the value or the price of anything. And knows he doesn't know. And is happy anyway.

A cynic doesn't know the value of anything but knows the price of everything. And is inordinately proud of himself for being so smart. But isn't smart enough to figure out why he's so unhappy.

A curmudgeon knows the value AND the price of EVERYTHING, but also knows that the price of anything good is usually too damned high. A curmudgeon also complains about this. A lot. And is inordinately proud of his resulting unhappiness.

I don't know who is higher on the plane of existence than a curmudgeon, if anyone.

At least now I am giggling at posts other than my own. I take my hat off to all the future curmudgeons.

Okay now I understand,its " I know I know it,you know I know it,but can you make me believe it"

What�s wrong with being a dirty old man? My theory is that we are all born as dirty old men and some of us bring this state to an art form. Who ever heard of a cute middle aged hunter? I know of a few cute huntresses but that�s a different story... I�d like to be a curmudgeon but I think I might not have the right stuff as I�m sometimes very happy.

I've been very fortunate, in that I've been blessed to have only been teamed up with excellent P.H.s. They've run the gamut in age from 25 to mid 50s. In several camps, the P.H. even brought his wife to camp so that my wife would have someone to "girl talk" with.