I have NOT seen the video, but have read the analyses with interest. The concensus seems to be that the lion took at least one 458 mag round through his chest and kept on coming!! Holy Shit! We need bigger guns!
While we are at it. Lets hear it for SIMBA.
This guy was giving it his all!!
peter.

10: That's a great analysis IMO. I haven't seen the tape, but I have been involved in a lot of accident investigations and analysis of video will often prove something completely different than what the witnesses remember. The only problem would be if the action had been edited.

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JD

JD I saw nothing, as in absolutely nothing, that would show the incident was edited "and I was looking". I think its the real deal.

Pete didnt the Warren commision find that it was Elvis who shot JFK ? They'd never let something as pesky as physical evidence alter their analysis of the facts..........Rick

If that was a setup then Wes should win an acadamy award for his performance when he got choked up explaining the lion charge.

Not everyone sets up to be charged by DG. Of course there are some that probably do but I'm not going to start that subject all over again.

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Good Hunting & Hunt Safe,
David

10 point,

Do you know Wes Hixon? I have not met him. If you know him, could you tell us whether he is a good marksman, or a below average marksman as indicated in the Zambian safari tape?

Thanks.

I will make a commit on this...That being that anyone that would pick a Lion to set up a charge is one tough, brave bad a$$ customer...Its one thing to set up a Buffalo charge, but another thing to set up a Lion Charge, which is the absolute most terrifying and most dangerous of charges IMHO....

I'm convinced the whole deal is legitamate....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

500 grn's I dont know him at all, never even knew he existed until Bill told me about these video's. From what Ive seen, and seen of other's, Im not sure I'd call him a "below average marksman".

Frankly I think its a miracle that Peter Chipman didnt suffer more injury and/or death. I think only a 2nd shot that hit the Lion's jaw, and broke it, saved him from a more severe bite..........10

This is the waveform analysis of the 7 shot's that were fired dureing the event. This really changes everything, its a waveform analysis thats as good as my software can do, it goes down to the single frame length.

It clearly show's the large audio spike that would be recorded by Peter's .458 win. Thats Audio #1 on the waveform picture.

I can say, with 80% certainty, that shot's #2, #3, and #5 were taken by the same rifle. I believe these shot's, highlighted by audio #2,3,&5 on the picture, were taken by Wes Hixon.

Now mind you these two shot's were fired 2.49 sec's apart, the longest space between shot's for the whole event. This 2.49 cycle time is entirely possible, the only real difference between this and my first hypothosi's is it does introduce a problem with shot #7.

I dont think there is any question that Wes took #7. The video clearly show's him cycleing, aiming, and being thrown back by recoil. The question is, is 1.13 sec's enough time for a rifleman to cycle a round, aim and shoot , remembering, that the range is point blank.

This argument also put's Wes shooting 4 shot's and not 3, as I originally stated. The physical similarities between shot's #2,3,5, as compared to #7 are very few ; It actually look's like the smaller rifle, Mohamid's, took the 7th shot. But this is impossible, the time between #6 and #7 is way to short ; Beside's, The video show's Wes taking #7.

So look at this new waveform analysis and see if you can present a better opinion. I see shot's #2 and #3 as being carbon copies of each other, #5 is also very,very close.

Keep in mind, when compareing #5 , that there are matter's beyond our control. For instance the cameraman is moving, the shooter's are moving, the attitude of the rifle's compared to the microphone is constantly changeing, you simply arent going to get an exact match of physical waveform prints under those condition's.

If nobody moved, if the attitudes of the rifles compared to the audio recording source never changed, then yes. I'd be able to give an opinion that I'd be comfortable saying was close to a %100 match.

But right now I'd be comfortable saying that Im %80 certain that the same rifle shot #2,#3,#5, and #7. I think that this was Wes Hixon doing it with his .416 M-700 and he muct have had 3 in the mag, one in the chamber. He had time to stoke up the rifle with bullets ; The M-700 is capable of 3 in the mag, in .416, correct ?

I still say that #2 broke the Lion's jaw ; It appears that Wes took this shot, as well as the killing shot, which I still say was #5.............10

Where can I see this lion charge?
SOunds unbelievable... is it on the web anywhere?

We are so left out here in Australia....

Concerning the sound freq. on your tape. Do you think that the sound limiter on the camera could affect the reading on the tape.
Just curious.
George

10: Yes, the Remington will hold 3 in the mag and one in the pipe. If Wes shot all of those shots, he was making up for his earlier screwup.

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JD

When I see a PH who carries a very large rifle (say a 577 double or one of the A Squares) I sometimes wonder if he's lived through an experience like this one. I've only had one very close call (buffalo) and my immediate reaction was "I need a bigger gun!"

George I would think that whatever would affect one part of the audio clip would affect all parts of it. Yes there are always limitation's when recording audio , but ,that doesnt become a factor unless only certain parts of the audio clip is affected, and some not.

This incident happened so fast that I dont think that there was enough time for real recording limitation's to begin. Of course other then the changeing camera position and rifle position.

I first looked at these waveforms when I was looking for evidence that this clip was tampered with while editing. If I would have seen "exactly the same waveform's" for each rifle shot I would have been very suspicious that the incident was tampered with in a digital NLE. Put it this way, I could easily take one of the rifle shot audio files, duplicate and subtly alter them, place them back in the timeline in place of the actual rifle shot's, and it would take an expert to tell what I did.

However the subtle differences you see here, for the same rifle shooting, is consistant with the actual variation's that would happen under field condition's..ie..dureing a fluid incident with factors beyond your control.

Again, this proves to me the whole thing is "the real deal". If the waveform's were to much alike, or to much un-like each other, I'd be suspicious. As they are I'd say they reflect the 3 rifle's being shot under changeing "field condition's".

In the past I have found a correlation between the size of a gunshot waveform with the amount of energy that gunshot is produceing, IOW's the bigger the gun the bigger the waveform. I think we see that here with the biggest wave being the 1st shot and the .458, the next biggest being Hixon's .416, and the smallest being Mohamids .375.

Again the distance and attitude of the Mic to the sound source would affect this, but all in all I think thats what we see here..........10

10 Point,
I knew that, I have made a life study of waveforms and I have concluded you to be correct..Good show!

For thoes of you who believe the above, I have a black land farm for $25.00 per acre and all you have to do is send me a $1000 down payment and I'll sign the deed over over to you and if you hurry I'll include a genuine treasure map with it....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

C'mon Ray......really ?...are you stroking my chain ?

The funny thing is you think Im actually kidding, some of the most compelling recent evidence evaluation of the JFK assasination is thru digital waveform analysis.

Im not saying each gunshot has its own "fingerprint" that has no other match but its easy to tell the difference between different caliber's being fired, and where their being fired from.

Think about the logic you old war horse. Different caliber's ignite different powder charges to launch different sized projectiles. Do you really think they would all sound alike ? All a waveform is is a digital representation of the sound going thru the air, there's just no way two caliber's are going to sound/look the same.

We dont use transistor's anymore Ray. Its come a long way since then..;-)

Tell you what, lets bet a box of ammo on this. Next time you go shooting setup your camcorder about 20" away with the mic pointing towards the gun, and keep the cap on the cam. Go ahead and record, with the cap on, the audio of you shooting three different caliber's "each caliber use's the same load" and do it randomly. Keep a log of what rifle you are shooting.

Then send me the tape "you have my address" and I garuntee you I can digitize that audio and tell you when you change caliber's. As long as you dont change the direction of the Mic, or have anyone else shooting, I will garuntee I know when you change.

Tella what, I'll even garuntee I can tell which caliber is being shot. If Im wrong I'll even make a contribution to the NRA, say $50.

You can mail someone here the sheet with the caliber's/shot's being used, after telling me what caliber's are being shot.

Im so sure about this I even made sure to tell you to put a cap on the camcorder lens beforehand.

OK..:-).....A box of ammo if I cant tell when a different rifle is being fired and/or a $50 donation to the NRA if I cant tell which caliber is being used "knowing what calibers were there beforehand".

This is an easy one, this is just science...what'll-ya-say....Raymundo!!!! you can even shoot 3 big-bore's.....<grin>

OK lets try this one more time, for the old and feeble. Here is shot #1, which clearly spikes past the -6.0db level on both sides of the waveform and is obviously the biggest/loudest rifle fired.

Here are shot's#2,3,and#5. Notice how they spike towards -6.0db on the right chanell at about the same time, at 3 or 4 point's, and are clearly not as big as the 1st shot, but bigger then the two other's, this has to be the .416.

The next two are shot's 4 & 6. oth are from the .375 and both are clearly from the rifle that produces the less audio. They are even carbon copies of each other, notice how they spike the same when they are fired. They are also clearly different from the other shot's.

The only incongruity is shot #7, as I said. That could be explained by positioning, I believe that its the only shot where the cameraman is directly in front of a shooter.

Anyway its been fun, and half in jest tho this is an exact science. How do you think submarines can tell the exact commie sub they are faceing ? Or how do you think voice-print I.D. is accomplished ? I dont mind Atkinson busting my ball's a bit, but he really should buy the tape and watch the charge. Hell I started this by useing the waveforms to correct another poster in that 7 shot's were fired and not 4 , dureing the charge.....anyway.....Does anyone have an opinion, anyone who actually watched the tape and might know what he is talking about ?...............10

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[This message has been edited by 10point (edited 08-16-2001).]

Let me summarize this.....they f**ked up...someone got bitten....the lion is dead or was the lion a better actor than all of them?

LMAO Pete Millan. "Back and to the left...back and to the left...back and to the left..." And congratulations on being only about the third person in history to get "Zapruder" right.

About shot #7 -- remember in [u]Death in the Long Grass[/u], Capstick's trouble with the last round in his .458 on the elephant cull? He had fired a couple of magazines worth of rounds with that one cartridge at the bottom of the mag the whole time. The recoil had set the bullet back into the case, and when he finally fired it, he said it had more recoil and a different sound. Possible?

fat,

Probably the repeated recoil pushed the bullet down in the case of that 458, compressing the powder charge and reducing the effective case capacity, thereby causing a pressure spike. Pressure = velocity = recoil. PHC probably reported that accurately.

I don't doubt Capstick was correct; I'm speculating that maybe that's what happened with shot #7 in the video (looks like it was fired by Hixon, but sounds like the second PH's rifle).

I haven't seen it; maybe I'll reread some Capstick tonight instead.

I'll stir the pot a bit more, and I'd like you guy's that actually have the video to actually look for the next time you watch it. Shot #2 was actually two shot's, Hixon and Mohamid shot together at the same split second.

I didnt notice anything until I slowed the wave down even more, in Soundforge. When I went back and actually listened to it I hear it, it went "POP-POP", they touched it off at the exact split second.

So thats 3 shot's for Mohamid and 4 for Hixon, and I have no idea who broke the cats jaw now.........10