I just wanted to report that I went there yesterday and it was fantastic. Many mounts including a 44 inch sable , 3 lions, 2 Tigers a 28 inch Roan and of course sheep.

If you find yourself in Lewiston Idaho see it.

On my list of things to do

wonder where they got the $$$ to do a museum?

Rich
Buff Killer

Every time I fondle a Model 70 in .270 at work, I can't help but think of him.

That trip is on my "bucket list"

Rich - Just curious as to why you would bring up the "where they got the money" issue. Does it really matter as to the quality of the museum and who it is set up for???


Larry Sellers
Sci Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
wonder where they got the $$$ to do a museum?

Rich
Buff Killer

Larry,

just "curious" why you asked. If you had lived here in Idaho while JOC was alive and compared him to Elmer Keith at the same time; you would not have asked me that question. Mr Keith was a friend to everyone, with an open door to NRA members. Friends of JOC like to categorize him as "...more of a private person..." in his dealings with the public. I drove the 5 hours north to Lewiston to visit him and ask if he would autograph one of his books for me. He did not sic the dog on me, but he was borderline rude to me and refused to do so. Kept me standing at the door while we chatted for 12-15 seconds.
The next afternoon I knocked on Elmer Keith's door and he also answered it. I introduced myself and asked him to do a book for me as I had JOC. He asked me if I were an NRA member. When I said "...yes, Life..." he told me to come right on in and sit down. Treated me like a long-lost nephew.
JOC came across as a man who liked the adulation, but would have preferred not to have to mingle with the unwashed masses. He also, as near as anybody can tell, never paid for a hunt. That tarnishes his reputation, since he never mentioned that fact in his writings. He is 100% not held in high regards by people in Lewiston. They considered him a snob.

I guess the news never got to New Mexico. I live here, and I had family in the Lewiston area, including an uncle who laid carpet in his house several times.


Rich
Buff Killer

Rich

When I lived in Spokane, Washington. I also went to visit Jack O'Conner. Yes, he was gruff in his own way but I liked him as I did Elmer Keith. I have all their books. He was unbelievable writer and one of the best. When Jack was alive I had him sign some of my books. I found him completly opposite in what you have stated. I hunted with his son Brad, who his now retired from Seattle Times and now lives in Olympia, WA. I beg to differ with you on hunts. He paid for many of his hunts in his early years but also the magazines he worked for helped pay for a part of few hunts later on. Before you start making these statements you need to get your facts straight.

The museum is being built by donations from indivduals in and around Lewiston/Clarkston area plus other indivduals outside the area. There is a series of rifles being built by Roger Biesen and engraved by his daughter which are being raffled off to help pay the museum also. Roger father is Al Biesen, who is in 90's now. Al Biesen was and still is one of the premier gun builders of the last 40 years. Al no longer buildes rifles but if you visit his shop in Spokane, Washington it is more likely you will find him down in the shop with his son and grandaughter watching them work.

Al Biesen built many rifles for Jack O'Conner plus many other sportsman throughout the World.

Brooks. I live in Lewiston and donated money to the museum. I greatly admire Jack’s writing and have copies of most of the books that he wrote. I’ve met the man and my dad knew him reasonably well. “Irascible” could be included in the description of the man and I do not doubt Rich’s account of his meeting with Mr. O’connor. That said, I’m sure that he paid for many of his hunting trips. He is one of my favorite outdoor writers.

I also knew Jack fairly well and didn't find him the way Rich describes. He was always friendly to me although he was gruff as described here. I suspect Rich hit him on a bad day. He had a lot of family problems to deal with and like most of us there are some days when we are just not as frienly to others as on other days.

465H&H

Guys,

Jack died in 1978, and Elmer followed in 1984 -- yet the debate continues. I suppose it will never end. There isn't much argument that if the two men were engaged in a personality contest, Elmer would win, hands down. O'Connor, I think recognized his trait toward aloofness, and even wrote a defense in his Last Book, Confessions Of A Gun Editor. We can accept his defense, or, reject it.

However, O'Connor's personality has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, his museum in Lewiston. The proper name of the facility is the Jack O'Connor Hunting Heritage & Education Center. It is a lovely place and is fulled with many of Jack and Eleanor's hunting trophies. On display are a few of O'Connor's guns, including his favorite Biesen 270 Model 70, on loan from the O'Connor family.
It is well worth a visit.

Tom

I never owned a 270 Winchester specifically because of JOC. I was sick to my stomach of his over praise of it. When I had a firearms business for a while many of my friend bought calibers around the 270 for the same reason. This in no way implies the 270 Win is a bad round, which it isn't..one of the best in fact, and has nothing to to with the JOC as a man. Just was sick of that's all he talked about. Yeah I know he and his wife had, used, and talked about other calibers.

I think I would take Rich's attitude if the same thing happen to me. I've heard the same thing about Wiley Clap being a gruff.

From what i heard Jack oconner peppered a bunch of writers at a winchester shoot and they never invited him back.Yep I dont like old 270 .He shot park elephants in Africa that had pet names and 30 pound tusk.I have alot of his books but only got them because they were in a hudge box of books.
If you want to read about double rifles and big bores and a real American hero read Elmer keith.If your into poping grizzleys and getting mauled old 270 is your guy.I have all of elmer Keiths books and wish all of his eartlier magazines would be put in a book for.Elmer Keith helped design the 41 mag,44 mag,Ruger Black Hawk ,Ruger # 1 ,Ruger 77,Model 70 Winchester and a ton of other things related to hunting and shooting.He was way ahead of his time.I like to use oconner books for targets or toilet paper .I have friends who when to see Elmer Keith.They spent the night and went shooing with him in the morning.I will always reread my Emler Keith books if I didnt have a single oconner book it would be fine with me.

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
From what i heard Jack oconner peppered a bunch of writers at a winchester shoot and they never invited him back.Yep I dont like old 270 .He shot park elephants in Africa that had pet names and 30 pound tusk.I have alot of his books but only got them because they were in a hudge box of books.
If you want to read about double rifles and big bores and a real American hero read Elmer keith.If your into poping grizzleys and getting mauled old 270 is your guy.I have all of elmer Keiths books and wish all of his eartlier magazines would be put in a book for.Elmer Keith helped design the 41 mag,44 mag,Ruger Black Hawk ,Ruger # 1 ,Ruger 77,Model 70 Winchester and a ton of other things related to hunting and shooting.He was way ahead of his time.I like to use oconner books for targets or toilet paper .I have friends who when to see Elmer Keith.They spent the night and went shooing with him in the morning.I will always reread my Emler Keith books if I didnt have a single oconner book it would be fine with me.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you on this one.

Both Jack O'Connor and Elmer Keith were fantastic characters of their time.

I enjoyed reading all the material either have written, and O'Connor was the man who inspired me to build my first rifle for Africa - a 270 Ackley.

I have killed practically every plains game animal with that rifle, totalling several hundreds.

As was the case of writers of those days, they were full of it sometimes, and not many people questioned them about it.

Some of the material Elmer Keith wrote defies any logical explanation.

Just imagine some of that nonsense being written today!

They would be crucified!

I think when it comes to actual knowledge about African hunting today, neither of the above gentlemen can come close to someone like Craig Boddington.

dgr 416
Since you do not think much of Jack O'Conner. I would be more than happy to take his books off your'e hands

Yes, Craig Bottington knows african hunting. He is probably the most prolific writer on African hunting we have today. The man is good.

I believe what Jack O'Conner to this day still rates as one of the greatest outdoor writers. A former English teacher in Arizona was great outdoor writer plus story teller. He hunted in at least four different contintents. He could take one hunt and write half a dozen stories on that hunt.

Elmer Keith is in that class also. Elmer Keith was more down to earth. But, he could write.

You could either love or hate either of these writers.

I think you will find most outdoor writers today look at the Elmer Keith and Jack O'Conner the fathers of outdoor writing. Yes, there were many others out there including Ruark, Bell, Whelen and the list goes on. But, O'Conner and Keith were the most prolific writers of their time.

Let us not knock either one. They were both very good at what they did and many of us would not have been hunting if we had not read one of their stories in outdoor magazine or one of their books.

Another outdoor writer out there most people do not hear about too much is Wayne Van Zwoll. The man can write and tells it like it is.

Saeed,

I agree 100%. I didn't respond to dgr416 as I felt his comments were either TIC, or he'd had one too many. I also agree that neither Keith (three or four safaris I think) nor O'Connor (perhaps ten or so safaris), had anywhere near Craig's African experience. Nor, in my opinion, does any other outdoor writer that ever lived. Craig is, I think, over seventy safaris now.

I would guess that the closest to that number of safaris by any other writer would be Col. Charles Askins. I remember a letter from him where he mentioned something like twenty-five trips that he'd made.

Tom T.

quote:

Craig is, I think, over seventy safaris now.

I feel so inadequate

In my post I didn't reflect anything at all about the man himself, just tired of hearing about the 270 being the greatest caliber ever created. I did enjoy reading his articles and liked Outdoor Life when he was there. I kind of like Craig too, it's like he's the last of that breed.