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It came to my attention recently that Namibia has different qualifications for PH's. They have Hunting guides, Master Hunting Guides, Professional Hunters (PH) and PH dangerous game. Apparently a lot of Hunting guides and Master Hunting Guides market them self’s as Real PH's but to my knowledge don't have the same level of expertise as a qualified PH and they can only hunt their own land, witch is normally a cattle ranch. What I look for when I hunt in Africa is a PH not just a guide that calls himself a PH. My question is, is it not misleading advertising to market yourself as something you are not and is there a way for us sitting in the States to confirm the qualification of your PH in Namibia. | ||
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Follow this link, pretty easy to figure out here. http://www.natron.net/napha/members/index.html | |||
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realguy, to verify, see http://www.natron.net/napha/members/index.html All NAPHA members at least, can be verified as to what their qualification is. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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Fulldraw, looks like you beat me to the "draw" by a few seconds!! Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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The classifications that you list are correct; however, I believe that guides may not conduct hunts for dangerous game which is when you really want a "pro" to back you up. Who better to lead you to game than the property owner or one familiar with it? The son of the land owner was with me and my ph on the plains game portion of my hunt in Namibia last year. He was 18 years old and home for the school holidays. Besides being a very nice, polite young man who'd make you proud to have as a son, he had the eyes of an eagle and knew the ranch like the back of his hand and where the game was. He wasn't a guide, but was interested in qualifying. You'd be lucky to have such a guide in my opinion. Kudude | |||
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As a point of interest, the young apprentice who was visiting us when I was at Erindi happened to be very willing to go along with us every day to learn more about bushcraft. He video'd my hunts for free and did a great job. Was a charming lad, catered to the clients, had an excellent rapport with the skinners and laborers. Had a real drive to become a true "professional". We sat down one morning between hunts and lunch, and went over his books, records of practical factors, and what was required for his proficiencies. WOW!!!! I have to say that even as an appy, he was more "qualified" than 80% of the elk, antelope, and mule deer guides I have met out here in the West. They have a rigorous program in place, and are turning out well-qualified people. | |||
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Just to be sure, I checked the NAPHA site to make sure my PH was a "real" one. Plus I would recommend emailing them just to make sure he is a member in good standing. Apparently his son is also studying to become a PH, and the PH is the manager of the ranch I will be on, so he and his son will know the ranch like the backs of their hands, too. I like that, and I won't mind both of them being along with me on the hunt. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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Karl - That's why he is called "Fulldraw" Larry Sellers
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rh - If I am going for Buff, Ele etc. I would definitely want the one with the PH Dangerous game designation. For anything else I want the one most qualified for where and what I would be hunting regardless of his/her designation. Larry Sellers
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Well said, Blank, and in line with my experience in Namibia. Their testing process is not a slam dunk. Kudude | |||
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I personally would not rely to heavily on government classifications when choosing a Plains game outfitter in Namibia . It not a fail safe guaranty of experience. Of coarse you want to book with an outfitter thats licensed to hunt big game if your booking a big game hunt. But lets not forget with the exception of the Caprive Strip and a few ranches bordering Etosha there is very little big game hunting in Namibia. Most Namibian outfitters have little or no need to be licensed to hunt for big game because there are no big game in their area. If your on a Plains game hunt would you want to hunt with outfitter that hunted plains game in his area for 10 - 20 years or a " Licensed Big Game " guide that pasted a test with 2 or 3 years experience? Who is the most experienced? Namibia outfitter Classifications PH Professional Hunter --- for all farms in Namibia with consent of the owner MHG Master Hunting Guide --- on his own and two additional farms where the hunting rights are registered in his name HG Hunting Guide --- only on his own farm BGH Big Game Hunting --- guide qualified for big game hunting Robert Johnson | |||
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This might be a dumb question, but then I have been told that there are no dumb questions only dumb answers. At any rate can anyone tell me what the letters before the PH's names mean. HG, PH, MHG, BGH, SM, EM, and EX. It might be on the sight somewhere, but I failed to see it. Thanks, Mike. | |||
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I think here is your answer mike338
"Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | |||
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Thanks for all the answers. The NAPHA site will definitely help. I guess my main concern is that a Ph might have more land and concessions available to him, where a Guide hunting his own land for the past 20 years has utilized most of his recourses. You see it is only a sideline business for him and he does not really worry about managing his recourses where a Ph manages what is his sole income. He will make sure a client is put on the animals he is hunting, if he over hunts one area he shoots himself in the foot for the next season. | |||
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This issue of calling different peolple PHs or hunting guide had a big discussion at NAPHA's Novemner 2006 AGM. As most members are hunting guides only, a motion was accepted that NAPHA should ask goverment to include the renaming of all hunting professionals as PH's of different levels in the new wildlife legislation that is currently being drawn up. I cannot disagree more. I believe that a PH should be a "professional", iow earn his/ her living from hunting. Though there might be some advantage to a guide that stays on one property and hunt there the whole time, there is more disadvantages.(You can actually learn to know an area pretty quickly, so to me this is not a real advantage.) Why else would most hunting guides bend the law, and also hunt on more than their own properties, as well as just love calling themselfs PHs? I know a lot of hunting guides/ PHs that knows the land they hunt on very well, having been hunting there for more than 5 years. Some are very good, some I would not hunt with. I might shoot myself in the foot by saying this, as I do not attend shows, but I think my reputation speak for itself- try and meet whomever you will hunt with, or at least follow up on recent references, talk to NAPHA, try and speak on the phone, ask around about the outfitter/ PH/ hunting guide that will hunt with you. As a side note, there is a lot more dangerous game hunting going on in Namibia than the Caprivi strip and farms south of Etosha. Most, if not all of our areas north of the "red line" has elephant and lion on them ,and most of the Kalahari farms bordering Botswana/ RSA Kgalagadi Transfrontier park, get some lion occationally. Strangely, leopard can be hunted by even a hunting guide that just qualified, and no big game PH is needed for that! Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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Imagine hunting leopard with a newly qualified Guide and something goes wrong. I prefer having a Ph that can stand his ground and shoot strait to back me up. I understand the reasoning behind different level PH's but then they must not be allowed to advertise them self’s as something else. | |||
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My point exactly. Something most people do not consider- most hunters will "upgrade" to dangerous game hunting as they continue to hunt Africa. It is better to by then have had a few PG hunts with the PH that will accompany you, than to meet him/ her the first time in camp. That's why I believe book with a big game PH from the start, and start building that relationship. (I am bais, I know...!) Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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realhunter, How much experience do you have in Africa? And where are you located? In Zim or anywhere else, PH's can be newly graduated. How much experience should they have? You are not going to hunt with a PH that has less than twenty years of hunting dangerous game? I've hunted with PH's that have had twenty years of expereince in certain safari areas in Zim and ones that had never been to the same area before. Not sure that it makes that much difference. I think it all boils down to a bit of expereince and how his clients, no matter how many or how few, faired with the PH. I don't know of any PH that will typically go in after wounded dangerous game by themselves, without another PH, and many times that doesn't even help. Before you go around throwing out "warnings," I would suggest having a bit of experience, either good or bad, from which to knowledgably address the PH "issue," which is probably not an issue from what I have read in the above posts. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Will Valid comment. I'm not interested in going on a big game hunt for now, just looking for a good quality plains game hunt. Can one be sure that a guide advertising himself as a PH does not mislead you in other aspects of his operation? For me there is a mental difference between hunting with just a guide or with a PH. That is why he carries the title of being a professional. What I understand regarding the qualification system in Namibia is the reason for the different levels is that someone qualifying as a PH needs to have a certain amount of experience before he can do so. Again misleading to say you are a PH if you just graduated as a hunting guide. | |||
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I've seen/heard of a bunch of "shit happens" with very experienced PH's. Like having a client snatched out of a canoe by a croc, telling a client to shoot illegal game (unintentionally), shooting 10 pound leopards, get nailed by client-wounded dangerous game, etc. Research ain't a bad thing, but sometimes it comes down to paying your money and taking your chances. You still haven't said where you are. The way I look at it is that I am just damn happy that Africa still exists! You could hunt for a hell of a long time in the States (read that as many, many years) and not kill as much crap as you can in Africa in a couple weeks, or less! But if the quality and not quantity is most important, I am currently offering 10-day guided elephant hunts in my backyard. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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realhunter If you are interested in hunting Namibia, I would be glad to give you assistance in making an informed choice on what guide/ PH to use, even if you decide to use someone else than myself. There is also plenty of booking agents on this site that books for reliable outfits with experienced PH's/ HG leading the hunt. PHs as a rule are supposed to have more experience than normal hunting guides, master hunting guides are hunting guides that have had at least 12 successful safaris. Some PH's qualify with less experience than master hunting guides. It would be better to hunt with a experienced and good hunting guide than with an average to bad PH, of which there is also a handful. (Like in any industry, some are better than others, though I believe that Namibian and Zim PH/ guides have a higher percentage good qualified hunting professionals than elsewhere.) Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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I have hunted plains game with Guides that did not have full PH license but their profession was hunting. I found these young guys experienced, enjoyable and some times more keen than some of the Licensed hunters. Recommendation go's along way. | |||
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a Guide hunting his own land for the past 20 years has utilized most of his recourses I guess you didn't stop to think that those resources are renewable. And, being "tied" to the land the guide has a real reason to protect his investment. Talking with recent clients will give you a better idea of the quality of the game than looking for a full PH licence. Ph manages what is his sole income. Yes, and this means that there is pressure on the PH to make money one the hunt. I have hunted twice with a MHG and never felt that he wanted to run up the total cost of the hunt by encouraging me to shoot more game. With PHs there is a real desire to "fill the bill," in my experience. Apparently a lot of Hunting guides and Master Hunting Guides market them self’s as Real PH's Have you actually found any Guides or Master Guides who use the term Professsional Hunter or PH in print? With all due respect, I think you should have posted this topic as a question rather than a "Warning." Jason Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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There is no one better to hunt with than a landowner who is also a dedicated hunter. For any number of reasons, his incentives are all favorable to the client. Under the Namibian system, there is no need for such a landowner to get anything other than a "Hunting Guide" designation, but many go ahead and get a "Master Hunting Guide" designation just so they can hunt neighboring properties -- or properties they lease rather than own -- or to help one another out when they happen to have more clients than a single guide can take care of. I'm certain you can find landowners who are poor guides and hosts. You can also find "professional hunters" who will lease any number of marginal properties, typically from absentee landowners, and hunt them until they're shot out. It all boils down to the individual, and no license designation can tell you all you need to know. I wouldn't be hesitant to hunt with any of the various designation of guides, so long as they were legal for what they were offering me. You can get a peach or a turd in any of them. For what it's worth, it seems that peaches are more common than turds in Namibia. Perhaps NAPHA has something to do with that. | |||
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There also seems to be "members" on this forum who "market" them self's(sic) as "hunting clients" but are in fact actually posting with the sole intention of promoting specific outfits at the cost of others...
Maybe not - to the same extent that one might want to question the honesty and integrity of Guides and PH's who present themselves to this forum as potential hunting clients... In my view; whether someone is qualified as a Guide or PH is not as important as whether he/she is legally qualified to offer hunts to clients and have the ability and resources to send satisfied clients back home who will come back for future hunts and/or act as reference for the outfit they hunted with. Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
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MOst great pilots have crashed or did an emergency landing. 80%of millionares have been bankrupt that is how you gain experience by walking the walk "Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | |||
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Quite apart from whether the Namibian system for certifying hunting guides merits a warning or not, the fact that the Namibian qualifications are of very high standard does not seem to have been mentioned in this discussion. The German influence in Namibia left its mark on the level of training required to qualify. Without stepping on anybody's toes, one might even claim that Namibian qualification is of higher standard than in many other countries in Southern Africa. The fact that there are differences in the exact training and requirements from country to country should hardly surprise anybody. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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I don't think we should get too hung up on terminology. The term, "Professional Hunter" carries a lot of baggage, much of it not of particular importance. Namibia seems to have a rigorous, well defined and progressive licensing system. It is very simple to determine if your Guide/PH has the skills appropriate to the type of hunting you are planning to do. Furthermore, personal recommendation is always of prime importance in spite of advertised qualifications, and should always be sought. I think Namibia's system is a plus, and deserves kudos, not warnings. | |||
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I have read these post with great interest. I am planning on hunting the caprivi strip with vaughan fulton. Now I have never met the man and will book with him I hope this January. I got most of my information about him on this web site and from posts of satisfied hunters. Like Will said it is a crap shoot and I won't know till I hunt with him how the hunt will go. But research is the key to booking in any area you are interested in hunting along with finding out how others faired with that particular PH. I feel realy secure in my choice. | |||
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On a safari to Namibia last year my PH for three days was the lodge bartender. I had a real hunter the first four days, but when the guys that had been hunting elephants arrived, I got the bartender for a guide. Not his fault, he was doing what his boss told him. Yes, I have complained to NAPHA and SCI. NAPHA is still investigating, no response from SCI. What they advertise and what you really get might not even be close. With the bartender I did not even get a shot. In fact, he did not even have his own binoculars and I loaned him mine. In short, I don't know if NAPHA's designation or membership stand for anything. | |||
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Mr. Shyder, It is most unfortunate that you were taken advantage of as such. NAPHA is only a "professional" organization that tries to self police their membership. Like SCI, there is no membership qualifications, only the payment of dues. I believe that the Namibian government authorities who license the PH's and guides have very stringent requirements. Each PH must be licensed separately for each species of dangerous game. Perhaps someone else more in the know can expand on this aspect of PH licensing and qualifications. Geoff Shooter | |||
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Chris, I think your post here cuts through the bull better then any. RealHunter seems like he cant recognize the shit he's standing in from the shit he's slinging. | |||
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Hi guys I would like to thank everybody for their input on this subject. I can see by the responces that there are a lot of opinions regarding the subject. Just to clear the air, I'm not trying to promote anyone, I just asked questions that was important for me planing my trip. I think we can let this thread die down now. Regards. | |||
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Geoff, a hunting guide can hunt any PG animal, and also leopard, as long as its on his property (or the property that he is employed on.) A master hunting guide can do thge same, but on 3 registered properties. A PH does not have a limit on the amount of properties he is allowed to hunt, but may still only hunt PG and leopard. If he wants to guide hunts for elephant, buffalo, rhino, hippo, lion and croc, he needs ONE extra qualification- a Big Game licence. This is a single seperate qualification, which one has to qualify for first. Such a PH is now called a Big Game PH. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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Hello Karl, Thanks for the explanation. Does the licensed Big Game PH have to qualify for each of the Dangerous Game species allowed under his license? Being so licensed, the BG PH would place himself and client in jeopardy if he had little or no experience hunting e.g. elephant or lion in Namibia. Please expand on that aspect. Thanks in advance. Geoff Shooter | |||
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What do you mean by North of the Red Line? What or where is the Red Line? | |||
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Geoff, he does not write a seperate exam for each of the animals listed, but he / she is requiered to have experience on all before writing the exam. Army aviator, the red line is a vetenary fence, running across roughly the top third of Namibia. I will try and get a map on where exactly it is all the way across. Anyway, most land above that (North of it), is communal land or government land, and unfenced. It holds more DG than most people would think, ebven in the desert & semi desert areas. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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I have followed this post with some interest as “qualifications†have been a part of my life for years. Having been in the military I tend to trust paper much less than people, a soldier's 201 may be gloriously filled in but the individual turns out to be a "book" soldier. However; when his old platoon sergeant says he is good people, well..that , carries weight. I will take a decision maker over a test taker any day. Titles are not always an indication of qualifications, the saying â€you may outrank me, however; you are not my superior†is valid in many instances. For me it was the satisfaction of the many posters on this site and a couple of others that led me to sign on with Vaughn Fulton for this August, my first trip to Africa. He offers the type of hunt I want, the animals I am interested in and above all he has been ID’d as one of the “good people†by many on this site. His title is of no importance to me. Just my thoughts, SFC E7 (retired) | |||
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