The Accurate Reloading Forums
National Geographic & lions
08 December 2010, 05:48
Sage GrouseNational Geographic & lions
I saw a show on Nat Geo Wild last night featuring Derek & Beverly Joubert, who say they
have been researching lion behavior for thiry years. They made several allegations on the show
that seemed shaky to me, though I know little about the condition of lion populations in Africa. Several of their charges are:
--20 to 30 lions die every time a hunter kills one.
--There may be as few as 20,000 lions in Africa.
--Lionesses are killing each other at an accelerated rate(even their own sisters!) and cubs in the prides, and the researchers don't know why.
--Leopards are endangered(there may be fewer than 50,000 of them in Africa).
What do you folks think about these claims? And has anyone heard of these two before? Are they supposed to be respected researchers in the field?
08 December 2010, 06:53
jdollar10 lbs. of bullshit in a 5 lb. bag. the Jouberts claim to be unbiased researchers but perusal of their TV specials and writings show otherwise. if leopards were truly endangered, they would be on CITES I and not CITES II. as far as 20-30 lions dying for every one killed hunting, utterly ridiculous. even if you shot the pride male and another male came in and took over( killing the existing cubs in the process) a pride will not generally have 20-30 cubs in it. also, that is the main reason for the big push among PH's not to shoot a pride male( although admittedly this push is still voluntary as far as i know). the Jouberts were 2 of the prime movers with getting lion hunting stopped in Botswana.
Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend…
To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP
08 December 2010, 09:51
BwanamichVery recent Lion density surveys across Moz, Tanzania and C.A.R. alone (Chardonnet et alia) well exceed 20,000 lions!
"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa
hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
08 December 2010, 10:21
Zig MackintoshJoubert's reckless and potentially devastating agenda is to close trophy lion hunting. Unfortunately he has the power of the media and influential contacts behind him and could very well succeed.
Watch how he ratchets up the intensity of his propaganda machine between now and the next CITES meeting in two years time. National Geographic's "explorer-in-residence"
08 December 2010, 10:44
ScriptusThey make a good living selling crap to horseheads!!!
SUSTAINABLY HUNTING THE BLUE PLANET!
"Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful, murder respectable and to give an appearence of solidity to pure wind." Dr J A du Plessis
08 December 2010, 12:13
shakariquote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
if leopards were truly endangered, they would be on CITES I and not CITES II. .
Buddy, I agree that the piece is crap but you'll excuse me for pointing out that leopards actually are CITES I and not CITES II.
http://www.shakariconnection.c...ITES-appendices.htmlhttp://www.shakariconnection.c...cites-appendices.pdf
08 December 2010, 16:37
ddrhookthe only thing more corrupt than the american news media is National geographic. they have no ethics what so ever
08 December 2010, 23:54
Brain1I saw it too and it even made my kids want to puke. Not a very well done show IMO. NATGEO has always been left wing but I think they have lost what few marbles they had left.
You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now.
Savannah Safaris Namibia
Otjitambi Trails & Safaris
DRSS
NRA
SCI
DSC
TSRA
TMPA
08 December 2010, 23:58
L. David KeithAnything NatGeo puts on TV is slandered BS. Consider your source. Everyday, domestic house cats kill an average of 100,000 songbirds in the US but I don't hear the greenies throwing a shitfit about that.
LDK
Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris
http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333
Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com
NRA Benefactor
DSC Professional Member
SCI Member
RMEF Life Member
NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor
NAHC Life Member
Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer
Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007
http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added
http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#926103994110 days in the Stormberg Mountains
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson
Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running......
"If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you."
09 December 2010, 02:40
jdollarquote:
Originally posted by shakari:
quote:
Originally posted by jdollar:
if leopards were truly endangered, they would be on CITES I and not CITES II. .
Buddy, I agree that the piece is crap but you'll excuse me for pointing out that leopards actually are CITES I and not CITES II.
http://www.shakariconnection.c...ITES-appendices.htmlhttp://www.shakariconnection.c...cites-appendices.pdf
my bad!!. I thought CITES I was the stuff you couldn't shoot at all, like tigers, and CITES II was threatened species with rigid quotas.
Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend…
To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP
09 December 2010, 02:58
sandyhunterjdollar,
CITES I = import and export permits required
CITES II = only export permits required
If lions are uplisted to CITES I, it is assumed that USF&W won't issue import permits.
09 December 2010, 08:09
jdollarnow i understand why the last 2 crocs i shot in Moz. didn't need an import permit, only a CITES export permit(they were CITES II) whereas my leopard from Bots a few years ago neEded both permits( CITES I). DAMN, IT'S GOOD TO LEARN NEW STUFF ALL THE TIME JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU KNOW IT ALL!!!!
Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend…
To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP
09 December 2010, 08:43
Bill CJoubert did make one of my favorite docu's of all time - "Eternal Enemies: Lions and Hyenas"
09 December 2010, 10:20
kukhamaquote:
Joubert did make one of my favorite docu's of all time - "Eternal Enemies: Lions and Hyenas"
+1 was a great documentary
10 December 2010, 01:19
KathiMalibu gift guide recommends $1.75M African safari
The Associated Press
Posted: 12/09/2010 09:14:17 AM PST
Updated: 12/09/2010 09:22:37 AM PST
One gift guide for the rich and famous has a suggestion that not only requires the giver to be financially fit but the receiver to be physically fit.
The Malibu-based Robb Report recommends a $1.75 million, three-month safari for two through 11 African countries with scientists and wildlife experts who are trying to save lions from extinction.
Robb spokesman Bruce Walline says the "Big Cats Flyover" will be led by National Geographic explorers Dereck and Beverly Joubert, who have written 10 books and won five Emmys in the last 30 years.
The recipients will help collect DNA samples from endangered lions and help map populations.
Walline says luxury is not the promise or the purpose of the trip, but it could be life changing for the buyer and the lions.
Kathi
kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552
"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
10 December 2010, 01:48
Bryce DillaboughFantastic! I think that SCI or DSC should buy that gift and send a representative for the tour instead of someone of the WRONG influence buying it thus providing them with further fuel on their fire.....
10 December 2010, 19:41
Michael RobinsonIt would be better for lion conservation efforts in the long run to spend that kind of money and hunt in Tanzania, Namibia, Zimbabwe and Mozambique - in each place for as long as it would take to kill a six year old plus free range male lion.
Mike
Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
10 December 2010, 20:11
ledvmOn another note...at least NG did a story on a very REAL problem with lions...Massai-lion-hatred.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
10 December 2010, 22:28
SevensThere was a show on Nat Geo about cape buffalo awhile back. Saw it in the search page and thought it would be interesting. Became even more interesting when I saw Niki Atcheson on it talking about her cape buffalo incident. Maybe someone who knows Niki might know the name of the show and if she felt if her comments were accurately represented or "creatively edited".
11 December 2010, 02:19
Bryce Dillabough....and most likely Sevens, any part of such tour as said in my last quote would undoubtably be "creatively edited" to make us look silly and aired on television, thus backfiring in our face.
11 December 2010, 02:28
Bryce DillaboughYou are probably right, but if the hunt doesn't stay open long enough to continue such efforts it won't matter.
I know my idea is unrealistic, and would most definitely back fire because ultimately we just funded their cause, but i would love to see the look on their face when they found out who bought their proposal.
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
It would be better for lion conservation efforts in the long run to spend that kind of money and hunt in Tanzania, Namibia, Zimbabwe and Mozambique - in each place for as long as it would take to kill a six year old plus free range male lion.