Here's a rookie question for you. It's usually one social blunder after another with me, so I'm looking for some guidance. What's proper ettiquette with the native staff. A list of Do's and Dont's would be helpful as I wouldn't want to un-intentionaly offend anybody or upset the PH's apple cart.

Elmo

Do: Treat them with courtesy and respect.

Don't: Tip without consulting your P.H.

BOWHUNR

I second that - Don't tip them without consulting your PH.

The problem arises when you (excited about your success, trip, a particular animal they helped with etc...) decide that something like, say... a $100.00 tip is a good thing to reward the tracker(s) with.

However, that $100.00 can be any where from a month to several month's "salary" for the tracker. Allbeit a small amount in the scope of your hunt price, it really can create employment issues for your PH.

Usually, you give a "collective" tip to the PH and he distributes it amongst the staff - that includes not only trackers, but cooks, cook's assistant, housekeeping, laundry staff, etc...

FWIW - Beyond the customary cash, I've found the best tips (you can present to the staff/tracker) to be clothing, shoes, etc... things that you wouldn't consider to be good enough to give to Goodwill are are really appreciated by the staff.

That's not meant to sound bad, it's just that they don't make much, and there ain't much (Western cloting wise) to buy when they do have the money.

Case in point - I gave a guy a "TEXAS" shirt on about day 3 of a hunt. On day 14, he still had it on and couldn't have been more proud of it.

I usually give the PH some money for the camp staff, he splits it up with them. As for the trackers I talk with the PH and I give them the tips, my PH usually watches.
I also give them clothes and while on the safari I give them goodies to eat, that they like alot.
My PH was visiting me last week, I had a talk with him about his personal tracker (he employs him) asked if there was anything I could bring him that he could really use besides clothes. He gave me some great ideas

Hmmmmm......

A set of matching AR T-shirts for the trackers, and an AR golf shirt for the PH. That would make a hell of a picture.

Elmo

Good advice across the board. Small presents are useful--watches, T-shirts, caps--and appreciated. But I don't think they take the place of a cash tip, in accordance with the standards established in any given camp/outfit/country. As far as dealing with the staff, respect is paramount--but it's okay to joke with them. Sense of humor is different than ours, but very present. One little tip that will go a long, long way: Don't be afraid to get your hands dirty. You don't want to mess with the skinner's ricebowl, but on really large animals pitch in and help with the skinning, butchering, loading and etc. You aren't required or expected to, but your hunt will be more productive if you become part of the team.

Never give any of the staff alcohol, most of them cannot handle it and the ph will sit with staff that that will be useless for a day.

I like to chat to the guys if they speak English and are willing to talk and permitted to do so. Respect is expected both ways of course. Usually help with loading very large animals unless it looks like I will get in the way. Hand out some smokes from time to time.

Also like to make sure they have food and cool drinks at the end of a hot day, or midday. The PHs I have hunted with so far all have been good and handed out Cokes and/or cold water but some I have heard do not. On one safari where we had to change camps and outfitters the guys (from the outfitter) did not have lunches. As we had morning teas and a separate lunch box we gave them most of the fruit and sandwiches from the morning tea plus drinks for their lunch. The PH wasn't sure if the trackers were not provided with lunch or were too lazy to organise it, but a happy crew works better than a hungry crew.

I strongly prefer to hand out cash tips direct to the staff I come in contact with such as trackers, skinners, drivers, cooks, waiters, cleaners etc. I discuss it with the PH and maybe leave some extra for other staff not seen.

All good stuff here!

General B

Nice to see you on this board. I heard you speak at the African Rookies Lecture at Reno SCI a few weeks ago. I was the one who asked you if you agreed that downloading a .375 per Kevin Robertsons advice was a good idea. Thanks for taking the time to speak there

Elmo

By the way guys, Craig strongly disagreed with K Robertson on the .375 if you were wondering.

Yes, I remember. Hate to get put on the spot like that!!!!!! The bullets we have are so good today that I don't see any need to shed velocity and energy, especially not from the level of the .375 H&H. On the other hand, I'm not convinced that a whole lot more velocity buys you much except more recoil. But, after all, Doc Robertson lives there. I assume he's shot a whole lot more buffalo than I have, although (due to availability) he may not have played with as many calibers/cartridges/bullets.

Doctari gets his theory and physics mixed up at times. You need all the penetration you can get and that only comes with velocity, energy, and sectional density.

elmo,

The best advice I can give that others have not yet mentioned is: Ask the PH. It is his staff, or he has to work with them in future. You should build a trust between you and the PH to the extent that you can ask him about how much to tip him at the end of the hunt.

Others have given some good advice. I will elaborate on some a bit.

Respect: As NitroX said, it is expected to be reciprocal. Do not for one minute think that you, the wealthy overseas hunter, are not being very critically judged by the team of trackers/skinners/cooks/cleaners/laundry maids/driver, and yes also by the PH. You may make more money in a day than they do collectively in a year, but they still evaluate and judge you. They do not respect you for your wealth. They envy you, yes, but do not respect for your wealth. You have to earn their respect while on safari by the things you do there for them all to see! Friendliness is a great respect earner. It may be much more difficult to earn respect if you cannot communicate in a common language, but I’ve seen it so many times that I know it is possible. Some clients just do it naturally; others try and are respected for trying. Few screw up things from the word go!

Help with animals to be loaded: I advise any PH working for me to not allow a client to help load an animal. The typical client is simply not used to lifting heavy loads, and can very easily hurt his back in helping. I like the client to help by other means, by being the arm-swinging one counting the “One, Two Three, HEAVE!†Or being the leading spirit, or making the plan of cutting a branch to help lift, or somehow giving encouragement to the loaders. But please do not help lifting heavy animals into the Land Cruiser if there is any chance of you getting hurt. On the other hand I do not want a PH to offend an obviously young and strong client by not allowing any help from him. Use discretion, when you offer help. I NEVER want a personal liability suite against my business for a PH allowing a client to help load an animal and him then getting hurt in the process. Remember that the trackers and PH will generally have more respect for the guy who helped load by means other than his physical strength!

Alcohol: I want to underline and bold Jaco’s advice. Please never ever give any tracker/skinner/camp cleaner/ laundry maid any alcohol. Never! By all means ask the PH to give a thirsty guy something to drink, he may even give a beer or better, but he knows his staff and he will know who he can give something to drink. I don’t want to sound bad, and make as if all staff are the same. Far from it, but you are not likely to know one from the other. For many rural farm laborers (who double as trackers in the hunting season) any alcohol is something to get drunk on. In the minds of most trackers/skinners there is a basic understanding: You drink to get drunk. Period. They simply do not seem to understand that one can enjoy a sundowner for the mere taste and companionship. Nor do they seem to understand that you can down an ice-cold beer after a hot walk for the sheer delight of it. No. For most of them you drink to get drunk! Although they obviously also enjoy drinking a cold beer, but why waste one cold beer on quenching a thirst if you are not going to follow up with more beer to get drunk?

Hand out some smokes from time to time: Good idea, for more than one reason. I have seen so many times that the “hunting attention span†of the visiting hunter is simply shorter than my own or that of the trackers. At the start of the walk-in-search-of-trophy-animals hunt the hunter is all eager, attentive, walks softly, is aware of what non-target animals we see and ignore. Generally part of the team! Then gradually the hunter’s attention wanders while on a long hunt. Branches are noisily snagged, feet drag, his rifle is carried as if it is very heavy, and he gets a far-away look in his eyes. A smoke break, with the hunter dishing out the cigarettes, now not only helps to builds team spirit, it also gives the hunter a chance to “catch up†again! This particularly helps if the hunter is actually a non-smoker, the trackers sense that he had their need for a smoke in mind. For the non-smoking trackers a candy sweet break works well too.

I personally like the hunter to give his tip directly to the staff. A good tip early on in a long safari, at the achievement of success, like finding an animal after a long and difficult tracking, or a good stalk, works wonders for the continued further effort. I know that a lot of PH’s like to distribute the tips, but the tip is from the hunter/companion and IMHO the staff being tipped, should received it directly from the hunter, like NitroX likes doing. I agree that it is a good idea to consult with the PH on the amount to tip, as excessive tipping can cause the PH some problems. Personally I like to have the trackers receive very good tips from the hunter, so that they want to be employed by me, as this is the only way they can get such good compensation from my hunters. Remember that by good tipping you are not going to succeed lifting the guy from poverty with your tip! You can however reinforce the fact that good work gets rewarded, and so encourage good work in the future. The fact that delivering good work should be the norm will help lifting the guy from poverty! Remember also that most trackers would prefer it if the tip is in South African currency so that the client hands the tracker a tip that he can directly use at his nearest shop. Very few, if any, trackers have banking facilities, and in South Africa a US $100 bill is a real pain in the backside for a tracker, as he has endless trouble, and either gets a very poor exchange rate, and/or needs to pay a, for him not understandable exchange commission, etc. to contend with. You should have been advised by your hunting outfitter to, at the airport if not elsewhere, get some local currency for incidental tips.

The truth is that with many, probably the vast majority, of PH’s the actual hunter is the tracker! Now the whole idea of hunting for a worthy trophy animal is that one should walk so quietly and unobtrusively that even the wise old bulls do not even notice you. A very attentive tracker/PH can often see the animal before being seen. If there is time to then evaluate trophy quality without the animal becoming aware of the hunters, as far as I’m concerned, that was a hunting success, even if the PH judges the animal to not be worth shooting. Now is the time to give an encouraging tip. Discuss it with your PH beforehand and agree that you would give a R 20 or so tip for every potential trophy that was clearly seen from within shooting range without it being aware of the hunters. This applies basically only to dense bush hunting - open grassveld requires a different approach.
A hunting group of tracker+PH+hunter that ‘surprises’ a record book trophy that is first seen running away, did not have success, and in my book no tip has been earned! Also discuss with the PH when he wants you to give a tip, and the size of the tip, for actually getting a trophy. Remember that a tip should remain a small monetary reward given in appreciation of a job very well done, to standards that exceed what is really expected. Used as described here a tip can be a very good incentive PH’s staff to continue working to very high standards. Please do not forget to ask the PH the next day to properly evaluate the work done by the skinners the night while you were celebrating at the fireside, and ask what an appropriate tip for an excellent skinning job should be. Where there is a place to buy alcoholic liquor that the tracker or skinner can reach after hours, the PH will in all likelihood insist on only giving all tips right at the end of the hunt!


In good hunting,

Andrew McLaren

Gentlemen,

Don't be too hard on Doctori, as I do believe velocity above a certain point tends to lessen the penetration of the bullet.

We have not done any sort of scientific tests on this, but from my own observations from using two rifles, both using Barnes X bullets, at velocities varying from 2660 to 3140 fps.

Every bullets fired at 3140 penetrated far less than the ones fired at velocities up to 2900 fps. To the extend that I have decided to keep all my velocities below 2900.

Here are a few examples.

I shot a waterbuck walking away from about 200 yards. He was hit in a rear end, the bullet breaking his back, and stopped in his opposite hip!

A kudu was shot broadside at about 300 yards. The bullet was found under the skin on the opposite side.

Compare this to us never recovering a bullet from any animal except buffalos shot lengthways with the slower velocities.

The 375H&H, of course, does not have the case capacity for any excessive velocity with some of the modern copper bullets.

I remember years ago we followed two buffalo bulls, and caught up with them at a water hole. The only shot we could have taken was at one quartering away. My PH asked if I had any solids, to which I answer "no", and told him I thought the Barnes X would do the job from that angle.

He did not really seemt o be too happy, but, did not object to my decision to shoot. We shot both bulls, and from then on he had no objection to me shooting buffalos from any angle.

The last two years we have used our own Walterhog bullets, which we turn on a CNC lathe here in our workshop. The only ones we recovered were from buffalos shot lengthways. All the rest tended to exit.

We are planning on doing a penetration test on the Walterhog bullets later this year. The idea was to load these from the lowest practical velocities, to the highest attained in our rifles, and see how they compare

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
You need all the penetration you can get and that only comes with velocity, energy, and sectional density.

Not to totally sidetrack this thread but penetration that is not straight due to a deformed bullet may be totally useless.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

Tips are not really tips.

In 99% of the cases everyone in the staffing chain expects to get something, regardless of their performance. It is quite the system! Very similar to the practice in the US that waitors and waitresses get tipped regardless, under the supposition that it is part of their salary, and to provide better service than if it was reflected in a higher base salary.

I am not fundamentally opposed to tips but everyone gets one whether they deserve one or not. Trackers that cannot track show up for their tip at the end of the hunt, regardless.

This business of tipping is supported by the PH because it relieves them of paying their staff a higher base salary. It may also get better performance from the staff but who knows, since that is not how the system operates!

And in many cases, tipping makes for conflicts between staff members as one person may get less than he thinks he deserves. It is always best to take the PH's recommendation on the distribution percentage to staff, though not necessarily the lump sum.

And then their are clients with more money than they know what to do with, and throw a lot of money around come tipping-time. It can make for hard feelings among some staff that do not understand that not every client is going to throw money at them, like when it comes to tipping-time with me!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill,
I sure have to agree with you on this tipping mess. It is out of hand and seems to me it has became part of their salary. Unfortunately, that's the system

I was concerned about the tipping procedure when I took my Safari last year. You know the usual thing, what was enough for each staff member, should I single out a particularly helpful tracker, skinner, cook, etc. At the end of the hunt my PH was very helpful and I might say I was very impressed with his method of rewarding them. I saught his advice as to what to tip each, I wanted to single out my four trackers at one level, the cook, skinner and head waiter at another level, and the remaining staff at another level. The PH and I sat at the dinner table and invited each staff member in one at a time and I shook their hand and gave them their tip and personaly thanked them for a very successful hunt. They seemed very appreciative and humble, and I left them with the feeling I had made new friends in a far away land with their hard work adequately rewarded. The fact the PH wanted me to personaly reward each staff member impressed me also, that way I looked each in the eye and thanked him, gave him him his reward, and left with both hunter and staff knowing the degree of respect all retained for each other. I also left my PH a healthy tip, ( I still wonder if that was enough ) and gifts of cloths, ammo common to both. I was extremely happy with the hunt and hope a rookie hunter was not to much of a load for them to enjoy me. Good shooting.

One other item that seems very popular (and functional) is a wool stocking cap. I just purchased several for gifts/tips (in addition to money) at Old Navy for $1.99.

New Guy had the best advice...give them a TEXAS t-shirt!! What more could he want???

Along with a cash tip I also took along two dozen baseball caps and lockback pocket knives. Both were in assorted colors and styles. The cash got handed out per the PH's advise, but they got to choose their own cap and knife per their pecking order status.
The PH said the cash would be used up on booze and whores in short time but they would remember me for the other things long after. I believe that to be true as most took a long time making their selections.

Regarding Doctari, I think he was observing that increased yaw of the bullet can lessen penetration on close range shots. The particular conditions which increase yaw can include an excessively long bullet and high velocity (just like driving fast can exacerbate a wheel on your car that is out of balance).

Craig, welcome back to AR!

My personal credo is, take no prejudice with you on safari whatsoever. Treat all camp and safari staff members with respect, a laugh, a joke or two and a smile, but don't play international social worker, and don't over-buddy them. But do treat them with the respect they deserve, and don't be afraid to interact with them as required.

I provide tips to the staff as per the guidlines of my PH. For a tracker who works extra hard, I might get a bit more generous and include something like a cap, an inexpensive digital watch or pocketknife in addition to a cash tip. Cash means more than small-time loot, so I don't try to substitute "stuff" for money. "Stuff' is in addition to money, always.

AD

Allen, well said!!


Craig good to see you on the forum. Loved the Buff Video looking forward to the Leopard!

I was once told NOT to tip the staff. Apparently the group in camp two weeks prior to my arrival had been overly gracous in their tipping. As there was no PH in the camp for a week they were on their own and had taken (without permission) camp vehicles and went to town and did a bit of hell raising. The outfitter wanted to teach them a lesson and ask me not to tip. The truth be told I wasn't botherd by the request as I would not have been to inclined to tip much as the service left a bit to be desired.

I didn't know how much things like candy and gum were appreicated until last year when I finished my hunt with Vaughan Fulton and we were leaving for the season and all extra fruit was distributed to the staff and I saw how much they appreciated them. I told Vaughan I had left some gum and Worthers Original hard candies in my tent (I had shared with the trackers during the hunt) he sent one of the staff to retreive the goodies and they were distributed to the staff. It brought tears to my eyes to see how appreciative they were of something we take for granted.

Sometimes we think with all the hunters they see these little things would be second nature to them, but it isn't.

Another thing some one posted here was taking Poloriad pictures and giving to the staff. I did this and it was great. They really enjoyed having a picture of themselves. I had one picture that didn't come out and I left it the waste basket and I saw one of the staff ladies pick it up and put it in her apron pocket and then later saw her sharing it with another staff member, remember this was only a partially exposed photo.

Cash talks best anywhere in the world and Africa is no different, you cannot eat trinkets and clothes, nor can their babies...They may be gratefull but mostly the hock that stuff when you leave for practically nothing..

Also cash takes up less room in your travels..Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions....

Ray, I think we all agree trinkets do not take the place of cash, but I do think the added items are appreciated and yes I am sure a knife here or there has been or will be sold to get some booze.

I will still take some added items for a more personal touch, just one mans opinion.

Bwanahile.

Everyone wants to be a winner!! Givem a Sooner shirt.

Sprig

quote:

Originally posted by bullsprig:
Bwanahile.

Everyone wants to be a winner!! Givem a Sooner shirt.

Sprig

Don't you mean a Wyoming Cowboys shirt.

All good suggestions. A couple of additional thoughts.

If you have any facility for language try to learn a bit of the local "linga franca". Before my trip to Tanzania I learned a bit of Swahili from a Kikuyu that I happened to work with. With just the names of common animals, greetings and common question going in I was able to pick up a good deal during the safari. It was really fun to try to interact with them in a language they understood. People react warmly to somone attempting to speak to them in their language generally (I have observed). For whatever reason I had a much harder time with Chalapa lapa (spelling?) in Zim. Still was fun, however.

It also may be a good idea to give away as much of your gear as you can part with at the end of the safari (in addition to the cash tips). Last time I just gave it all to the PH and asked him to distribute. DON"T FORGET THE PH. He was very happy to have the first aid kit I had brought. The appy PH appeared to be more happy with the Leatherman I gave him that the cash... The staff loved the sweat shirts etc.

One which I guess is too obvious is don't sleep with the locals or the staff!

Apparently, rumour has it in the past, certain Safari outfits could or would provide "local beauties" for after hunt "entertainment"...

I am not sure if it still goes on today, but such practices now carry a death sentence with the African Aids pandemic no matter how tempting!

This thread is getting better all the time. Our man Brett is right on track with the language thing. I've only travelled to a few foreign places; Mexico, Quebec, BVI and Oklahoma. In each case the natives respected my earnest,but inept, use of their language. They liked the fact that I at least tried. That's why I started that "Favorite Phrase in Swahili" thread last week. BFaucett really came though with the "Living Swahili Dictionary" link, and if anybody wants to improve their Swahili for their next trip, they should check that thread and open Bob's link.

As far as velocity vs. penetration ics concerned... You can argue with Robertson or Will or Saeed or Craig or Ray or 500GRNS.

But you can't argue with Isaak Newton, because the old dead guy wins every time.

Newton's Third Law
"Whenever one body exerts a force on another, the second body always exerts on the first a force which is equal in measure but opposite in direction."

More commonly stated as " For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

When a bullet hit a given medium, whether bone or meat or phonebook or plywood or water, that medium hits back with as much force as that medium can, before it yeilds. In the case of thick armor plate. it can hit back with an equal and opposite force, and resist any penetration and the bullet yields first and destroys itself.

Viscous medium like muscle tissue will behave differently than bone. Consider water as a type of viscous medium. If a guy jumps of a 3 foot high boat dock into a lake, he'll be fine. If he jumps off the Golden Gate Bridge, that water will seem like concrete when he goes SPLAT on the surface. The only difference is velocity. When we consider that kinetic energy increases with the SQUARE of velocity, it does not seem to farfetched to think at some point, in some viscous medium, an increase in velocity could reach a point where penetration could decrease in accordance with Newton's Third Law.

Am I Sure about all this? HELL NO. I only know enough about physics to be a danger to myself and others. It certainly explains how softpoints work. Solids dont tend to yield at shootable velocities. But they might at 4000 fps. And the reaction force applied to them might hinder their penetration before the solid deforms. I'm inclined to believe Kevin Robertson.(and Saeed Too) that moderate velocity aint a bad idea.



Elmo

Do the staff in Namibia normally understand Africaans? I'll be leaving July 29th this year, I've bought some language CD's for the computer and I'm looking at purchasing one of the audio lessons from the internet. Just curious if I had wasted my money or not. Also, how much do you normally tip the PH if he owns the property and is a one man show(as far as the PH title goes). I'm going with Jan Visser of Klawberg outside Windhoek, and was curious what I should plan on for him. In the states I have been told the outfitter does not get tipped, only his staff, but that does not seem to apply elsewhere. I'm not cheap, but curious of protocol. As this is my first time to Africa, this forum has been awesome to help in the planning. I've been able to give my dad a heads up and we are traveling/hunting with a good friend who has hunted with Jan before.

quote:

Originally posted by elmo:

But you can't argue with Isaak Newton, because the old dead guy wins every time.

Elmo

You are trying to argue with Newton!

The guy goes splat on the water when he has jumped from a bridge because he is a "soft" and not a "solid."

On the subject of tips, I let the PH distribute the cash. He replied when asked about trinkets ,that a stocking cap with a logo(team,designer,didn't matter) goes over very well and gets used.

On gaining respect, I found that the trackers got a good laugh when I looked at each of them and held up an additional figure counting to 4 including myself, then down at 1500 pounds of eland and laughed. When we got it loaded in the dark and I stepped back to see that I was the lucky one pushing like hell on the bullet hole and covered in blood and laughing about it, I felt they genuinely accepted me. Loading that eland was one of the highpoints of the trip for me.

Kurick1:
I hunted in Namibia with Van Heerden Safaris last year. The sole owner/PH refused a tip from us. He advised on the amount of tip for the other folks. I suppose the answer would depend on the PH.

The first hunt I made was in Natal and I was staying at a lodge. The second evening for dinner was fish. I don't like fish and ask the PH was there anything else to eat. He said "I don't know but will check with the staff" as he went to the kitchen I followed and found a pot of pasta on the stove and some vegies frying for over it or Pasta Premivera which was for the staff. I said that would make agreat dinner and that was my supper. After that I was treated like a friend not just a guest.

When my wife and I went to central Namibia a couple of years ago we prefaced the trip with going to several garage sales. There we stocked up on clothing from baby clothes on up to adult jeans. We also got a lot of costume jewelry, frisbees, soccer balls, etc. Many times, when talking to people at the garage sales, they asked what we were going to do with the stuff. When we told them it was to give to folks in Africa when we went there on a trip, they would often just give it to us.

We took every suitcase (and a TuffPak from Harry) we were allowed, took the clothes we needed, and filled the rest with our garage sale stuff.

Once in Namibia we layed out everything we had brought on an extra bed in the lodge. The following day I told the PH that we had brought a lot of clothes, jewelry, etc. for the staff and he told me that he already knew that. It seems that the cleaning girl had seen it and the word had spread like wildfire!

When we left we were touched when the workers wanted to extend their thanks to us in the only way they could. They all got together and sang songs for us. They were surprisingly good, too!The PH told me that they usually didn't do that.

It was pretty heartwarming!

JDS

Tips may be expected equally by all, but should go to each according to merit.

I like it best when I get the service I expect, or better service than I expect, because then I can just leave a generous tip without even having to think about it.

In some cases, though, one doesn't get that level of service and then, a lesser tip, or no tip at all, is appropriate.

Also, one must always remember to treat a full time government game scout or ranger roughly on a par with the regular "private sector" trackers provided by your PH. But still, I don't observe or advise full "tipping equality" regardless of quality of service.

Last year while we were hunting and tracking a problem lion north of Etosha, Vaughan Fulton and I and his regular trackers were assisted by MET rangers.

There were three. One was a bushman and was a skilled tracker and very hard worker. He showed no fear or reluctance and was always willing to lend a hand. Another was less helpful, but still had a good attitude and did a fair bit of work.

The third, who happened to be the most senior and the boss of the others (coincidence?), was worse than useless.

My tips were apportioned accordingly, and the only reason the boss got a nickel was for political reasons.