cewe

Chill out.

A little humor every now and then does not hurt.

There is kind of a local joke among some of my hunting friends that we use when describing how big a deer is we have seen.

Hunter 1. "I saw a big deer this morning, but could not get a shot at him."

Hunter 2. "How big was he."

Hunter 1. He was so BIG I would have shot him if the GAME WARDEN was riding him."

Hunter 2. "My, my, he must have been a nice one."



I modified the joke some as even a Texas Game Warden would PROBABLY not ride a WILD LION.

No. Not enough mane and too young.

Humor is a good thing -and the can was more a joke than anything else.

Maybe a reminder that people really do hunt canned lions?

And that when someone does it rubs of on us all...

Bill

Is he trying to eat me?

Pete

Gentlemen,

I am sorry for causing any confusion with the second lion photo. I only posted it to show the differences in genetics. This particular lion does look great, but he was only 3 1/2 years old when I took this photo.

You might ask how I know the age of this lion. The answer is that I talked to the owner of this lion, who has had him since he was a cub. He has not, and will not, be hunted.

My point is that it is very difficult to judge the age of lions at times. How many of the companies that advertise they shoot only seven year old or older lions would have passed on this lion? I don't know, but suspect that this lion would have fooled many PH's (I know that he sure fooled me, I was guessing that he was 5 or 6 years old ). He had a big body as well as the big mane, and the pink nose test sure would not have worked in this instance.

I have hunted lion five times now in Zimbabwe and Tanzania, and still do not have a lion. I have seen a good number of wild lions, but never a good, old male with a nice mane while hunting (I have seen lots in parks and preserves, etc.). Under field conditions this lion would have been very tempting, and I dare say that most hunters would have shot him never knowing that he was this young.

Just food for thought and discussion .

Jim

Assuming that he is a real wild lion, not an RSA canned special, or in a zoo, Yep, by todays standards, he is definately a shooter.

NO !

It's Johnny.

He lives in the Central Park Zoo, NY.

Bill,
you are very right; That is why we often have to rely on the judgement of our PH and unfortunately there are too many that only think about the $$$$ (read tips) resulting if a client does'nt go home empty handed. Sad, very sad.

How big a can does no 2 come in?

Bwanamich-

Bravo!

I was thinking the same things as I read through the thread, only to find your post at the end.

I was a bit disappointed in the numbers of guys saying basically they'd shoot him "just because they could".

I think in part it shows how difficult it is to age a lion. And in the field they don't always give you this kind of look either. What made this lion look immature was just the way he carried himself, which is impossible to read from a photo.

I would shoot the second Lion if he was on a leash in a Parade down Main Street.
As to the first Lion I would depend on the PH. He would know the trophy quality, hunting difficulty etc, of the area.

Bill,
You did well to pass on that lion and take the one you did. By all accounts, the one you took is a much better trophy in my book!

I would estimate that lion between 3-4 (closer to 4) and as such should NOT be shot under any hunting circumstances with specie management in mind. Shooting an "immature" male lion for reasons such as , "last day of the hunt", "once in a lifetime hunt", "better trophy than my previous one", "best lion seen in area", etc, etc, is absolutely plain wrong!

Why would you want to shoot a young, immature animal in the first place? Just because its a lion? Would you shoot this impala and display it proudly in your home or rather wait and find a fully grown, mature one? Even if that meant going home without one?


Wild Lions are just too precious an animal to shoot for the above stated reasons. You cannot compare shooting a young lion with shooting a doe deer. The damage caused by doing the former is much worse in terms of specie management than doing the latter. We as hunters need to start realising we can no longer justify shooting an immature male lion (or any other animal) on the basis of the above given excuses.

The second lion is slightly older than the first, just from a different genetic make-up. Leave him be another 3-4 years and you will see the difference in mane development and trophy character. It just makes no sense to me to want to shoot an immature animal for trophy purposes.

I'm at a loss. His mane is long in front, short around the face, short on and behind the shoulders--he's a bit of a freak. If I had to guess, I'd say about 7, or possibly a bit younger, but not much. He has no scars, which indicates youth.

I've killed a 5-6 year old, with much more size, several facial scars, and more character than this one. I've also killed a heavily maned and scarred 9-10 year old, the likes of which I don't expect to see again. Mane, apart from freakish genetics, appears to be a direct function of age.

It's the weird configuration of this one's mane and his pretty face that are confusing.

No guesses on age of the second lion?

Jim