I happened to look over the new Outdoor Life and noticed Cahrmichel's latest article. Apparently he brought a 30-06 over the whale-pasture on a hunt in Namibia... loaded with 165's he did-in everything with one shot (except a zebra which required two).

So what are your observations of the 30-06 on African game? No, not those that have read about it, but those that have used or seen it used (no Ruark re-gurgitations please... hah!).

Obviously the round is boring, un-flashy and out-of-vogue... it's also obvious it still works!

Brad

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Happiness is a warm gun

A .30-06 with proper bullets is ALWAYS a good choice for a light rifle.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

With the new enhanced ammo from Hornady it will very near compete with the 300's...She is a grand old round, nobody is going to argue that...

But there are better and more capable rounds out there and more than a few of them...the 300's, 338, some 9.3's 35 Whelan and some of the 7mm's..We don't need to compare the 375 and up, that won't work.

There are rounds that will equal the 06 such as the 308, 7x57, 8x57,280,270 and some others...

Thats what makes a horse race....

I would hunt any animal on earth with the 30-06,but it sure wouldn't be my choice on a lot of them...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

With the 180 gr Nosler it didn't do so well but I'm starting to think I may have a bad batch, as many others above seem to have found that bullet performed well.

Used it on lots of feral game (pigs and goats) and it is more than adequate, and on deer it is one of the best rounds around.

Next time I head West to Africa I will take my 30-06, a 375 H&H and maybe a 458 (just in case, hoping that it will be needed).

I think it really comes down to shot placement and using the right bullet for the game, calibre and shot placement.

Nitro

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John
alias Nitro

NitroExpress.com

You bet the 30-06 works great for 99% of the plainsgame out there.

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Good Hunting & Hunt Safe,
David

In my opinion problems arise due to inadequate preparation, taking too long shots and shooters being scared of their rifles.

J. Snyman, you bring up an excellent point...

I was at the gun counter at Bob Wards. Here, BW's is the biggest sporting goods store with the most out-of-state shoppers. Chewing the fat with my friend behind the counter the talk turned to elk rifles. Naturally, that's about all we ever talk about! Anyway, our elk here are the biggest, most tenacious-of-life animal we have (except the grizzly bear). My friend talks to HUNDREDS of elk hunters every season. He's got a great mind and is a stickler for detail... he's been taking informal polls with customers for years. He told me he hears the fewest complaints regarding the performance of the 30-06 on elk than any other cartridge... the most complaints coming from those with 7 Mag's and 300 Mag's. I can't explain this other than:

1). The person is afraid of or can't shoot their Mag well because of recoil/lack of practice.

2). The person is using lightly constructed or too light bullets that won't penetrate at magnum velocities.

3). The person has an unreasonable amount of "faith" in their selection of chamberings which leads to:

a). Shot's that are too long.
b). Shots at the "edges" of game that only cripple... "Why didn't it go down, I was usin mah 7 em-em!"

I doubt it's any different in Africa, except that American sportsman are often long on money and short on experience... which leads to 30-378's, muzzle breaks, heavy rifles and all sorts of other useless nonsense!

Brad

quote:

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Originally posted by Brad:

American sportsman are often long on money and short on experience... which leads to 30-378's, muzzle breaks, heavy rifles and all sorts of other useless nonsense!

Brad

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<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>> The 30-06 will do fine for plains game up to and including Eland, with proper bullets, and placement.

I have to agree with the above statement, with some modification. The 30-378, brake, 20,000 fps, types are far more evident in deer camps in the USA, than in Africa, and the old saying by most of them about their hot shot rifle is, "it will kill anything that walks, crawls, or flys". The same guy who says the above in a deer camp is the guy you here saying his rifle is perfect for Africa, eventhough he has never been out of his own state! Convercely, you will find far less of this in Africa, than in the USA!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

[This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 03-25-2002).]

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Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris

I have a friend who has guided extensively on elk. He told me most people kill cows cleanly because it's "just a cow"... i.e., they're not nervous... it's a meat hunt. They place their shots to kill. If you can't take the shot, another can usually be found. Bulls, now that's something different... guys fall-to-pieces and "shoot to hit" vs. "shoot to kill" like on the cows. Probably for the average guy, a larger rifle than he can shoot well doesn't help matters!

Rich:

Your's is as strong a reccomendation I've heard... pretty well says it all. I remember Finn Aagaard commenting that the only client he ever had out that killed everything with one shot was a chap with the 30-06/180 loading.

Funny, in discussing the "classic" African cartridges the 30-06 is never mentioned... based on my limited "book-knowledge" and listening to folks on the African forums, I'd bet it's seen as much action as any "continental" round in Africa... just a guess though!

Brad

I have not got anything like the experience of the above posters but 2 kudu and 12 impala for 14 shots tells it�s own story. You can�t beat the old workhorses.

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Regards

Richard

quote:

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Originally posted by Brad:
Mac:

I have a friend who has guided extensively on elk. He told me most people kill cows cleanly because it's "just a cow"... i.e., they're not nervous... it's a meat hunt. They place their shots to kill. If you can't take the shot, another can usually be found. Bulls, now that's something different... guys fall-to-pieces and "shoot to hit" vs. "shoot to kill" like on the cows. Probably for the average guy, a larger rifle than he can shoot well doesn't help matters!

Brad

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Brad, why does everyone think all double rifles are large calibers? It is not the chambering I am reccomending, but the double rifle, it's self. You can get fine side by side double rifles in chamberings as small as 22 hornet, with 222 Rem, 5.6x52R, 243 win,6.5x55, 6.5x57R, 7x57R, 308 Win, 30-06, 8x57IRS, and 9.3x74R. That list leaves little out that could be used on American game. The value in the double for North America is the natural pointability, and ease of carry.

IMO, if a man is going to get buck fever, it will make absolutely no difference what he is shooting! I stood and watched a man shuck every round out of a mod 94 Win 30-30 and never pull the trigger one time, when he saw a big muledeer on an open slope below him. He swore he had fired every one of those cartridges at that deer, untill we showed him the still loaded rounds on the ground around him! This is a man who had hunted whitetail from a stand all his life, but had never seen a deer as big, and in the open, as that full ten point (5x5) muley! The deer was taken, with one shot, by my other buddy with a Ruger Blackhawk, chambered for 41 Rem Mag, at about 75 yds, when the buck stopped at the edge of a sendero, to look back up at us! In this case we had a real case of buck fever, and it certainly had nothing to do with recoil, there wasn't any! I might add that most owners of double rifles, have hunted animals that make North American game MUNDANE at best, and certainly not fodder to cause BUCK FEVER on deer, or elk!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

1)How does the average American prepare for a hunt? Does he visit a shooting range and sight in his rifle properly, at what distance does he shoot, is it from a bench or a field position etc?

I attended a simulated hunt at a hunting association the other weekend and noted some interesting things..... Shooting was done at a full sized picture of an impala from 3 different distances. The "bulls eye" was a 6" diameter circle on the heart/lung area.

First was 3 shots taken from a prone position over a distance of 200m. Next 3 shots from a kneeling or sitting position at 100m. The last 3 shots from a standing position at 50m. No rests, shooting sticks, bipods etc were allowed and the minimum calibre was 6mm.

Before the shoot the guys checked their rifles by shooting from a bench at targets. Some VERY impressive groups were fired. But during the "hunt" only 2 guys out of 80 managed to get all 9 shots in the 6" circle! Some guys did not even get a single hole in the target!

So, if you don't practice shooting from hunting positions over the expected hunting distance, how do you expect to hit an animal with a killing shot over that distance?

2)How do you select the rifle/calibre to use?

From various postings it appears as if a lot of guys are speed freaks and believe in using the maximum size bullet on the smallest animal.

A lot of small to medium sized antelope is shot using 223, 243, 303, 308 etc rifles. To hunt them with a 7mm Rem Mag or 375 H&H is simply overkill.

Our hunting distances are also generally not that far, with most bushveld-type shots under 150m. On plains game shots at more than 250m is not that common. So for that type of hunting you do not need the flattest shooting calibre.

The other problem with heavy recoil and loud muzzle blast is that some shooters are scared of their own rifles. We all shoot better with smaller calibre rifles - some are just too proud to admit it!

You are absolutley right. Especially Americans belive the bigger the better. You know and I know a 308W is good for any antelope and lion and leopard as well.

Double rifles, even in small calibers, are for close combat, regardless what some says.
A heavy double is good for follow up work, nothing is better, but as a hunting rifle, no way Jos�!

Bjorn

There seems to be the misguided thought that because AMERICANS, as Bjorn is so fond of singling out, take rifles that are too large for the game they hunt. This is not exactly true in the sinse that the rifle was not chosen because we think it is needed for plains game, but because, unlike you, who live in Africa, we can only bring two rifles, and if heavy game is the primary target, and the heavy rifle goes out of service, the small one has to take it's place, you, and I both know a .223, 243 isn't going to do that. You on the other hand can simply go home, and get another rifle, and come back the next day and continue your hunt. An AMERICAN, as if we are the only alein hunters in Africa, will have our hunt ruined, and cost us another $2000 for another ticket on an airplane to get back, not to mention the $10,000 in wasted daily fees, while we are there the first time, and another $10,000 in daily fees for the next trip to get what we came for the first time. I think it makes far more sinse to take a 300 mag with 180, and 200 gr bullets than a 243 for a backup for your heavy rifle. Allen can give you a fine example of this exact thing, his 458 broke down, and all he had was his 300 Win Mag, and he took two buffalo, and a lion with it. If he had gone there with a 243,he would have wasted a great amount of money, and time, don't you think?

If Americans have propencity for anything, as a groupe, it would probably be trying to take too large an animal with a small rifle thinking high velocity is going to make up for heavy well designed bullets, at a lower velocity. The hundreds of strings on these forums wanting someone to validate their idea of takeing buffalo with a 30-06 should tell you that.

I can only speak for myself, but the rifles I use in my hunting are like extentions of my body, and I can shoot them blindfolded. They shoot, today, the same as they did 30 years ago, I could shoot them then, and I don't need to learn to shoot them again to hunt with them today! One other thing, the man who thinks I cannot hit the target with any of my double rifles at 200 yds, certainly does not want to stand at 200 yds hopeing I can't hit him!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

Not a yank or an American but I agree with Mac in that a foreign visitor has to make somewhat a compromise in the calibre we take.

I wouldn't even consider a 243. If paying tremendously expensive fees why stuff up your chances by using a very marginal calibre (unless the hunter is specialising in small antelope).

And the damage to meat is not the main concern. We can't pack the meat home for the next few months.

But to pass up perhaps the only shot at an eland because all you have is a 243 and the eland is walking directly away is stupid. Use something that will get through to its vitals.

If hunting small to large antelope I would take a 375 and a 30-06. If something much larger a 375 and a 458. A 375 by itself also wouldn't be bad.

But I do agree with you, this craze for velocity at all costs is silly and really is just the manufacturers regurgitating the market on yet another fad to sell more firearms. It will be interesting to see which RUMs, Dakotas and WSM are around in 10 to 15 years time.

Better to use something comfortable and shoot well than shoot a hyper velocity cannon badly. I am always intrigued about just how often some of these cannon are actually used "in anger".

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Before most hunts and before my last trip I practiced with a 30-06 at 50 yards, rapid fire at the shoulder, 100 yards off hand, 200 yards sitting, 300 yards prone and 400 yards prone (those heavy bullets weren't too successful at this range or even the 300 yds). About 40 rounds a session, and several sessions.

I use "deer" style targets so shoot for vitals, rather than a square or circle.

Plus some running target shots as well.

But nothing beats some "real" running targets, such as roos, pigs and goats for practice.

My rifle is usually sighted in about 75 mm high at 100 metres. With a 150 gr it gives me a point blank range of up to 300 metres. Heavier bullets less.

Regarding you mention of shooters failing to hit a 6 inch target consistently. I belong to a local hunting club and at a annual trophy shoot when there was a tie between three persons we had a shoot off, off hand at a "deer" target at 220 metres. Two shots each. 2 of us scored 10 on both shots ie lungs/heart for both shots and the other shooter a 10 and another score.

(Tell me - whats the best Stellenbosch wines to try. And what sort of hunting is available in the Stellenbosch area? Send me an email if you wish. Thanks)

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John
alias Nitro

NitroExpress.com

My 180 gr Nosler Partition load.

53 grs of IMR4350 in a Remington case, a Federal 210 primer and seated just off the lands at 3.320" length (for my rifle). I always full length re-sized so cases are easily chambered.

About 2,600 fps.

Rifle is a .30-06 Parker Hale 1200 M98 with 24" barrel and a Weaver 4x scope with post cross hair reticle.

Accuracy with three shots off a bench about .55 MOA (16.5mm) at 100 metres. Consistently one hole 3 shot groups if I am patient (last time I was patient was about 1988). Now probably 1 1/2 MOA which is my impatient group size.

(Use any reloading data at your own risk)

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John
alias Nitro

NitroExpress.com

It's been about 5 years now since I have used it, but this May I am taking it again along with the 338 Mag.

In the '06 I am using all 180 gr bullets, adn wll test some Hornady SPBT, Speer SPBT, and a few Nosler Partitons just for good measure.

In years past I have used 190 Hornady BT and 220 Horandy RN. Never recovered a bullet of either one. They just go on thru and the animals fall down.

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May I be half the man my dog thinks I am.