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How to hunt properly and make the animal "Halal"?
30 April 2013, 10:37
Andrew McLarenHow to hunt properly and make the animal "Halal"?
Caveat: I absolutely respect everyone's religion. I ask this question so that I can by proper behavior show the required respect for a Muslim client and his religion.
Can someone with good knowledge hereof please enlighten all on this subject?
Thanks.
Andrew McLarenProfessional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974.
http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa!
Enquire about any South African hunting directly from
andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that:One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it.
One cannot cure:Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules!
My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat.
Today I still hunt! 30 April 2013, 20:17
AilsaWheelsAndrew, I am not a Muslim nor a scholar. I have hunted with Muslim's 10-20 times and will try to communicate what I have been told.
Hala is not cutting the throat. Hala has to do with an animal being clean. Blood is unclean so it needs to be drained from the body before eating. A dead animal is unclean so the neck needs to be cut while the animal is still alive. There is a Koran/Arabic word for cutting the neck that I don't remember. The Swahili word that was used by Muslims was "changa". In Tanzania the Muslims I have hunted with would point the animals head toward Mecca when they cut the throat.
It is my understanding that if there is no Hala food available that a Muslim can eat unclean food. Muslims friends stopped in at our house when I was a kid. We offered them dinner. My father told them that he had no Hala food available. They said that was okay. They ate Topi (no neck cut) and Zebra (an animal without cloven hooves....my understanding it is unclean). It seems that there is some flexability there.
This is my experience. There are alot of better informed people on this forum and subject than I. They will be able to give you better information. Good Luck
30 April 2013, 21:28
Hunting For AdventureI have booked clients specifying that they eat only Halal food. That is fine. They have not mentioned that the animals they hunt must be specifically killed in any particular method however.
Tom Addleman
tom@dirtnapgear.com
01 May 2013, 00:08
Luangwa_LoverThe aspect of making an animal Halaal to eat is very plain and simple. Whilst an animal is still alive, its neck needs to be cut in a certain manner using a very sharp knife in order to cause the animal the least stress and least pain. Its needs to done swiftly and I repeat, the animal needs to suffer the least stress whilst the act is being performed. The essence of the halaal process is to drain the blood out of the animal and it has to be done whilst the animal is still alive so that the blood exits quickly with the last heartbeats of the animal. Muslims believe that this is to purify the meat of the animal and it is a religious obligation of every muslim to make sure the meat has been slaughtered in the right manner by himself or a fellow muslim before eating it.
It is not done for any other reason (being violent etc) I am a practising muslim, I have had people of different faiths and cultures hunt with me and they all respect my beliefs as It is stipulated in the Quran that an animal should not be distressed in any form when being halaald. The animal is to be given the utmost respect, and the tools that are to be used to perform the act should be of an acceptable standard in order for the animal to attain a swift death and to render the meat 'halaal' for any muslim to consume.
I hope this is clear. The barbaric acts that were performed in one of the videos that was posted on another thread earlier is entirely against islamic beliefs and from my observation there was a lot of taunting of the animal before the halaal act took place.
In my limited experience, while hunting halal is whatever the senior believer says it is. While in the Selous, most of the hunting and camp staff I met considered themselves muslim. After the animals were shot and the photos taken the game scout would borrow my knife and cut the throat. The practice didn't match up to theory but as far as I could tell the muslims ate as well as anyone.
Dean
...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men.
-Edward, Duke of York
01 May 2013, 05:10
Matt Grahamquote:
Originally posted by Luangwa_Lover:
I hope this is clear. The barbaric acts that were performed in one of the videos that was posted on another thread earlier is entirely against islamic beliefs and from my observation there was a lot of taunting of the animal before the halaal act took place.
But then it wouldn't be halaal then though? .... Right?
quote:
Originally posted by maki:
In my limited experience, while hunting halal is whatever the senior believer says it is. While in the Selous, most of the hunting and camp staff I met considered themselves muslim. After the animals were shot and the photos taken the game scout would borrow my knife and cut the throat. The practice didn't match up to theory but as far as I could tell the muslims ate as well as anyone.
Dean
Can you ask that the throat not be cut, or at least have the animal skinned out first before being cut? Nothing against the staffs religious beliefs, but I have always heard that cutting the throat was a big "no no" if you want the animal mounted.
01 May 2013, 06:28
Matt Grahamquote:
Originally posted by Sevens:
quote:
Originally posted by maki:
In my limited experience, while hunting halal is whatever the senior believer says it is. While in the Selous, most of the hunting and camp staff I met considered themselves muslim. After the animals were shot and the photos taken the game scout would borrow my knife and cut the throat. The practice didn't match up to theory but as far as I could tell the muslims ate as well as anyone.
Dean
Can you ask that the throat not be cut, or at least have the animal skinned out first before being cut? Nothing against the staffs religious beliefs, but I have always heard that cutting the throat was a big "no no" if you want the animal mounted.
Taxidermists complain about every little thing!!!
01 May 2013, 06:51
twoseventyquote:
Taxidermists complain about every little thing!!!
Good one, Matt.
...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men.
-Edward, duke of York
". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
Cogito ergo venor- KPete
“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.”
― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations”
It is apparent that hunters are amused, even gleeful, about the animals suffering. Nothing more need be said.
01 May 2013, 07:14
reddy375That is not Halal. The animal has to still be alive. But it is the hypocrocy of some muslims.
quote:
Originally posted by maki:
In my limited experience, while hunting halal is whatever the senior believer says it is. While in the Selous, most of the hunting and camp staff I met considered themselves muslim. After the animals were shot and the photos taken the game scout would borrow my knife and cut the throat. The practice didn't match up to theory but as far as I could tell the muslims ate as well as anyone.
Dean
quote:
Originally posted by Luangwa_Lover:
The aspect of making an animal Halaal to eat is very plain and simple. Whilst an animal is still alive, its neck needs to be cut in a certain manner using a very sharp knife in order to cause the animal the least stress and least pain. Its needs to done swiftly and I repeat, the animal needs to suffer the least stress whilst the act is being performed. The essence of the halaal process is to drain the blood out of the animal and it has to be done whilst the animal is still alive so that the blood exits quickly with the last heartbeats of the animal. Muslims believe that this is to purify the meat of the animal and it is a religious obligation of every muslim to make sure the meat has been slaughtered in the right manner by himself or a fellow muslim before eating it.
It is not done for any other reason (being violent etc) I am a practising muslim, I have had people of different faiths and cultures hunt with me and they all respect my beliefs as It is stipulated in the Quran that an animal should not be distressed in any form when being halaald. The animal is to be given the utmost respect, and the tools that are to be used to perform the act should be of an acceptable standard in order for the animal to attain a swift death and to render the meat 'halaal' for any muslim to consume.
I hope this is clear. The barbaric acts that were performed in one of the videos that was posted on another thread earlier is entirely against islamic beliefs and from my observation there was a lot of taunting of the animal before the halaal act took place.
Based on the above, it would appear that cattle slaughtered commercially should all pretty much be considered Halal. I've been inside a commercial slaughterhouse, and the way cattle were killed was to knock them out with a blow just above and between the eyes, then a chain was attached around a back leg and the animal lifted into the air. Then, the kill man would take a knife and insert it into the jugular of the cow, and upon removing the knife there was a gusher of blood pumped out of the cow. If that doesn't qualify as 'Halal', I don't know what would.
quote:
Originally posted by Sevens:
quote:
Originally posted by maki:
In my limited experience, while hunting halal is whatever the senior believer says it is. While in the Selous, most of the hunting and camp staff I met considered themselves muslim. After the animals were shot and the photos taken the game scout would borrow my knife and cut the throat. The practice didn't match up to theory but as far as I could tell the muslims ate as well as anyone.
Dean
Can you ask that the throat not be cut, or at least have the animal skinned out first before being cut? Nothing against the staffs religious beliefs, but I have always heard that cutting the throat was a big "no no" if you want the animal mounted.
Yes, of course. I wasn't taking capes for shoulder mounts and this didn't affect the flat skins.
Dean
...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men.
-Edward, Duke of York
01 May 2013, 21:42
leopards valley safarisI have a Muslim Friend from the UAE that regulary hunts with me. The only stipulation that I have from him is NO PORK and NO ALCHOHOL, in the food or in the cooking process?
We eat Game, beef, home grown mutton but mostly he wants to eat everything he shoots.
he will be in camp in 3 days
01 May 2013, 22:05
Bill/OregonSo an animal killed by gunshot cannot be made halal?
There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
Hypothetically; I guess if one had a client badly shoot a cape buffalo and the PH has a knife instead of a 600 nitro while he waited for the Buffalo to choose how it wanted to die; it could be "Halal." That would be good film. Hypothetically of course.
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
quote:
Originally posted by Fury01:
Hypothetically; I guess if one had a client badly shoot a cape buffalo and the PH has a knife instead of a 600 nitro while he waited for the Buffalo to choose how it wanted to die; it could be "Halal." That would be good film. Hypothetically of course.
If any volunteers are wanted to wound the buffalo, so "it can choose how to die with a dagger".
I will be happy to put my name down.
02 May 2013, 06:41
Michael RobinsonHell, I'm so hungry by dinner time, I don't generally even take time off to say grace.
All I care about is that it's dead and medium rare, and for good sushi or carpaccio Kobe beef, I'll even take dead and raw.
Probably the wrong guy to consult on this question!
Mike
Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
02 May 2013, 08:11
fujotupuquote:
Then, the kill man would take a knife and insert it into the jugular of the cow, and upon removing the knife there was a gusher of blood pumped out of the cow. If that doesn't qualify as 'Halal', I don't know what would.
In accordance with Muslim rites it does not - the throat has to be slit from side to side and the spine severed at the first notch (it is not a necessity for the head to be separated from the trunk).
02 May 2013, 09:05
Matt Grahamquote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
Then, the kill man would take a knife and insert it into the jugular of the cow, and upon removing the knife there was a gusher of blood pumped out of the cow. If that doesn't qualify as 'Halal', I don't know what would.
In accordance with Muslim rites it does not - the throat has to be slit from side to side and the spine severed at the first notch (it is not a necessity for the head to be separated from the trunk).
As Saeed pointed-out in the other thread... opinions and practices vary considerably!!
02 May 2013, 23:42
Swamp_FoxI was raised Baptist. We cut throats and hung everything we butchered but it was dead when this happened.
I still do that when hunting for meat. Old habits and such.
******************
"Policies making areas "gun free" provide a sense of safety to those who engage in magical thinking..." Glenn Harlan Reynolds
03 May 2013, 00:59
larryshoresquote:
Originally posted by Swamp_Fox:
I was raised Baptist. We cut throats and hung everything we butchered but it was dead when this happened.
I still do that when hunting for meat. Old habits and such.
A hell of a lot of people think that this practice makes the meat better. It is commonly done in the south.
03 May 2013, 01:14
Swamp_Foxquote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
quote:
Originally posted by Swamp_Fox:
I was raised Baptist. We cut throats and hung everything we butchered but it was dead when this happened.
I still do that when hunting for meat. Old habits and such.
A hell of a lot of people think that this practice makes the meat better. It is commonly done in the south.
I think it makes meat taste less gammy. The reason they gave had to do with Old Testament teachings. Those teachings didn't keep them from eating catfish.
******************
"Policies making areas "gun free" provide a sense of safety to those who engage in magical thinking..." Glenn Harlan Reynolds
03 May 2013, 03:10
Matt GrahamBleeding game and domestic animals destined for the table is nothing new and common practice. It is better for table meat helps it keep longer.
03 May 2013, 08:40
Full RoarWell.....if a Muslim shoots it and has a religious belief I would suppose they can handle the duties of their religion themselves
I wouldn't worry about it
03 May 2013, 12:32
fujotupuquote:
It is better for table meat helps it keep longer.
How ?
03 May 2013, 13:42
Andrew McLarenquote:
Originally posted by Full Roar:
Well.....if a Muslim shoots it and has a religious belief I would suppose they can handle the duties of their religion themselves
I wouldn't worry about it
Unfortunately, for me that is, I do worry about it! Suppose the following set of facts prevail: A Muslim client has indicated that he would like to eat some of what he hunts. He shoots a good double lung shot and after running a few yards the animal goes down, but is still alive. My own sense of hunting ethics tell me to say: Quickly shoot it again. Give him a second or two before saying: "Shoot quickly, or I'll shoot it again!"
But, although ethically I can live with this scenario, it would be exactly the wrong behavior towards my known Muslim client! There is a downed trophy, but it's heart is still pumping, and the Senior Believer close by. The advice given so far basically says that I should rather say: "You run up to it and cut the throat in accordance to your religious beliefs, and I'll follow you closely and be ready to shoot it again if it runs away!"
Thanks for the good advice given so far.
Andrew McLarenProfessional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974.
http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa!
Enquire about any South African hunting directly from
andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that:One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it.
One cannot cure:Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules!
My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat.
Today I still hunt! 03 May 2013, 21:52
Full Roarquote:
Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
quote:
Originally posted by Full Roar:
Well.....if a Muslim shoots it and has a religious belief I would suppose they can handle the duties of their religion themselves
I wouldn't worry about it
Unfortunately, for me that is, I do worry about it! Suppose the following set of facts prevail: A Muslim client has indicated that he would like to eat some of what he hunts. He shoots a good double lung shot and after running a few yards the animal goes down, but is still alive. My own sense of hunting ethics tell me to say: Quickly shoot it again. Give him a second or two before saying: "Shoot quickly, or I'll shoot it again!"
But, although ethically I can live with this scenario, it would be exactly the wrong behavior towards my known Muslim client! There is a downed trophy, but it's heart is still pumping, and the Senior Believer close by. The advice given so far basically says that I should rather say: "You run up to it and cut the throat in accordance to your religious beliefs, and I'll follow you closely and be ready to shoot it again if it runs away!"
Thanks for the good advice given so far.
Andrew, you do have a conundrum, but I think it will work itself out. You are a pro, do what a pro would do and the rest will fall in line